Shawn Ray's serious interaction with Dallas McCarver

[baby muscle]

I hear you. But what if the competitor doesn't know exactly what to expect with these diuretics? What if the competitor is very sick? Shouldn't the coach be held at least a little accountable for shit like this? No? Free pass? Okay..

No dude-I disagree. We are adults. We can take responsibility for our choices and not be willfully ignorant.

The library is still free, the internet is free...and last I checked, the forums on this site are comprehensive and reliable and Dave, John, Sassy69 and Heavy Iron have worked for years on putting out accurate pharmaceutical information here.

Dave puts on an excellent guru seminar multiple times per year. There are also books like Bill Llewellyns, Chris Wormleys, Rick Collins's, not to mention old physician desk references and old issues of MD/other mags with pharma columns (pre RX Muscle days) and Dan Duchaines writing is still relevant and findable.

Let's stop with the excuses that "I didn't knowww" and take responsibility for what we put into our bodies. If we were adolescents it would be a different matter.

[pd]

No dude-I disagree. We are adults. We can take responsibility for our choices and not be willfully ignorant.

The library is still free, the internet is free...and last I checked, the forums on this site are comprehensive and reliable and Dave, John, Sassy69 and Heavy Iron have worked for years on putting out accurate pharmaceutical information here.

Dave puts on an excellent guru seminar multiple times per year. There are also books like Bill Llewellyns, Chris Wormleys, Rick Collins's, not to mention old physician desk references and old issues of MD/other mags with pharma columns (pre RX Muscle days) and Dan Duchaines writing is still relevant and findable.

Let's stop with the excuses that "I didn't knowww" and take responsibility for what we put into our bodies. If we were adolescents it would be a different matter.

THIS X10
You beat me to it baby muscle.

[baby muscle]

Reps for Baby Muscle please? Its no different from when the hospital asks you if you really want to go ahead with a procedure that has risks........your choice.

Niiice! Thanks man!

[Elf]

No dude-I disagree. We are adults. We can take responsibility for our choices and not be willfully ignorant.

The library is still free, the internet is free...and last I checked, the forums on this site are comprehensive and reliable and Dave, John, Sassy69 and Heavy Iron have worked for years on putting out accurate pharmaceutical information here.

Dave puts on an excellent guru seminar multiple times per year. There are also books like Bill Llewellyns, Chris Wormleys, Rick Collins's, not to mention old physician desk references and old issues of MD/other mags with pharma columns (pre RX Muscle days) and Dan Duchaines writing is still relevant and findable.

Let's stop with the excuses that "I didn't knowww" and take responsibility for what we put into our bodies. If we were adolescents it would be a different matter.

You're creating a strawman argument.
I never said that Dallas isn't responsible for what he puts in his body. I never said he can't research the stuff for himself.

If Dallas was doing this by himself, yeah, total rookie mistake. But he had Chad Nichols - a veteran guru - in his corner. What happened could have easily been prevented if the guy who's suppose to guide him was guiding him properly. In fact, many of the illnesses of Chad's clients could have been prevented as well...

Who knows what Chad did or didn't advise Dallas to do or not to do... It's all speculation. But it is interesting that Dallas was sick 3 weeks before the Arnold Classic all the way up to the contest where he collapsed, and apparently nobody said to the guy in that time-frame, "Hey, maybe you should rest and compete a little later in the year." Everybody was looking at the paycheck this kid was going to bring them instead of being his friend and being concerned for the young man's health.

[baby muscle]

You're creating a strawman argument.
I never said that Dallas isn't responsible for what he puts in his body. I never said he can't research the stuff for himself.

If Dallas was doing this by himself, yeah, total rookie mistake. But he had Chad Nichols - a veteran guru - in his corner. What happened could have easily been prevented if the guy who's suppose to guide him was guiding him properly. In fact, many of the illnesses of Chad's clients could have been prevented as well...

Who knows what Chad did or didn't advise Dallas to do or not to do... It's all speculation. But it is interesting that Dallas was sick 3 weeks before the Arnold Classic all the way up to the contest where he collapsed, and apparently nobody said to the guy in that time-frame, "Hey, maybe you should rest and compete a little later in the year." Everybody was looking at the paycheck this kid was going to bring them instead of being his friend and being concerned for the young man's health.

Well Dallas did put up a video explanation of what happened...basically a combo of long respiratory infection probably combined with the general bb standard of some common diuretic with the usual depletion exacerbating it because Dallas is a go-hard dude.

I just don't think that we can hold someone else responsible even a little for not "guiding him properly". Ultimately, people are free to compete when sick/injured if they want to and occasionally it works out. I personally know an Arnold 2017 powerlifter who risked getting killed with 800lb+ bench presses when he pressed with a bum shoulder (referred to as "shitshoulder") and injured his QL deadlifting 2 weeks out from Arnold as well. He also walked away Arnold Classic 2017 lightweight powerlifting champion-that's the champion mentality. If we always listened to naysayers shit wouldn't get done!

[Elf]

Well Dallas did put up a video explanation of what happened...basically a combo of long respiratory infection probably combined with the general bb standard of some common diuretic with the usual depletion exacerbating it because Dallas is a go-hard dude.

I just don't think that we can hold someone else responsible even a little for not "guiding him properly". Ultimately, people are free to compete when sick/injured if they want to and occasionally it works out. I personally know an Arnold 2017 powerlifter who risked getting killed with 800lb+ bench presses when he pressed with a bum shoulder (referred to as "shitshoulder") and injured his QL deadlifting 2 weeks out from Arnold as well. He also walked away Arnold Classic 2017 lightweight powerlifting champion-that's the champion mentality. If we always listened to naysayers shit wouldn't get done!

I actually do agree with you, I'm not saying that Dallas' coach should be solely responsible for the collapse of Dallas on stage and I'm not saying that Dallas is not responsible for what he chooses to do.

What I have an issue with is when people say that somebody's coach has zero accountability for the process, I just think that's going too far.

We should be questioning these gurus more and more in my opinion, especially when things go wrong... Especially when the guru is Nichols, who has made a career while also having a disproportionate amount of clients getting harmed in the process.

[baby muscle]

I actually do agree with you, I'm not saying that Dallas' coach should be solely responsible for the collapse of Dallas on stage and I'm not saying that Dallas is not responsible for what he chooses to do.

What I have an issue with is when people say that somebody's coach has zero accountability for the process, I just think that's going too far.

We should be questioning these gurus more and more in my opinion, especially when things go wrong... Especially when the guru is Nichols, who has made a career while also having a disproportionate amount of clients getting harmed in the process.

I can see where you're coming from. However, my personal experience is that a lot of competitors ask too many people for advice and doubt the coach, and add in things the coach isn't even aware of and consistently hide/minimize things like illness, ancillary drugs etc. For instance, I know a competitor whose coach was mystified by her water retention in a certain area until it came out 2 weeks from the show that she was also injecting Helios in her rear end. WTF?? Helios, as Dave will tell you, does nothing except promote water retention.

[warthog]

I can see where you're coming from. However, my personal experience is that a lot of competitors ask too many people for advice and doubt the coach, and add in things the coach isn't even aware of and consistently hide/minimize things like illness, ancillary drugs etc. For instance, I know a competitor whose coach was mystified by her water retention in a certain area until it came out 2 weeks from the show that she was also injecting Helios in her rear end. WTF?? Helios, as Dave will tell you, does nothing except promote water retention.

Im sure we all remember how much stick Hany Rambod got for "killing" Seth Feroce's career. Well we also remember how he (Feroce) right here on " Live With" confessed to going the extra mile despite his coach having told him he'd be fine just using the already laid out plans Going that extra mile, which landed him in A&E, had nothing to do with the coach.

[JohnnyStyles]

You guys ready for a ...

PIPE-BOMB!!!???

[Big Beat]

You guys ready for a ...

PIPE-BOMB!!!???

Yeah.....hit it and quit..........

[MusclePoppins]

pipe bomb
noun
noun: pipebomb

• a homemade bomb, the components of which are contained in a pipe.
  
  
  
  

I'd prefer the PLASTIQUE from Goldeneye
Plastique.jpg
plastique-plastic-explosive-papercraft.jpg

... which would be Kai Greene getting back together with Oscar Ardon and announcing plans to compete in the 2017 Mr. Olympia.