Is "Muscle Dysmorphia" Real or Not?

[hifrommike65]

Thank you for your honesty, Prudence. A lot of people are using for cosmetic reasons, no question about it. If you look at nonrelationship sex as a food chain, the logic of attraction you describe makes sense. I hope that some still actually become interested in others because they are sympatico, appealing, or share interests.

I do not accept that an individual is suffering from a mental disorder in order to look a certain way, for whatever reason. & extending it to the idea that someone has a disease becuse s/he wants to look muscular & ripped is absurd.

[Prudence]

I agree, calling it a disease seems like a stretch.
Whereas a mental disorder it might just be. Its similar to the way women put make up on and get tanned before they go out to a nightclub. you KNOW once that make up comes off, shes gonna look different. Once I'm off Tren, and this vascularity subsides, I too will look different.
Not exactly the same..but similar.

The AAS use/ABUSE with men (myself included) trying to just look better is out of control. All in the name of being 'hot'. I'm so caught up with my appearance, it's borderline debilitating. I feel like there is never enough time in the gym because somewhere in another gym, theres a guy with my exact stats doing another set. He's gonna get the guy I want because of my lack of effort.
So I fall deeper and deeper into my Ipod and keep going.

I've written in depth on another site about my absolute insane love affair with DNP.
I'll relate it briefly here and one could make the argument as to how it relates to body dysmorphia.

I happen to be a great responder to DNP. So much so that I feel better ON it than OFF.
Most people cant handle to sweat thats associated with it. I on the other hand enjoy it and wish it were more.
Why? Because when I look in the mirror at the gym and see all that sweat all over my shirt, I feel like I'm doing it better.
Makes zero sense. DB pressing the 120s {for my huge set of a whopping 4 reps} is going to make me sweat ANYWAY. The DNP is just making me sweat more.

[Big Beat]

Is this Dr Tony Huge?

[Prudence]

Nope.
But I wish I had his money.

[black-elephant]

Psychiatry changes over time allowing for reflection on: 1) changes in the concept of mental disorders, which are slow in process, 2) diagnosis-making is a social act, 3) the construct of illness and disorder, ‘mental’ or otherwise is not only physiological but a social one, 4) the construct of illness has social consequences, and 5) shifts in the concept and nature of disorder reflect wider social, political and economic forces more than scientific advancement. DSM codes are changed over time with the fifth set being the present code. Case in point, it was not until 1987 that homosexuality was removed from the DSM codes, and at that time transsexualism was introduced which changed to gender identity disorder, and in DSM-5 (2013) gender dysphoria. My point is simply that the DSM codes change. What will DSM-6 bring?

[hifrommike65]

One problem I have with the psychiatric demonizing of bodybuilding is that it is built on phony science. At one point in The Adonis Complex, Harrison Pope says something to the effect that evidence doesn't exist for his claim, but that he's still right. That's why Free Press brought the book out instead of a university press. Lack of clinical evidence means the book is speculative and soft in its methodology. When he made headlines by publishing an article about the fantasy musculature of action figures in The Journal of Eating Disorders, I looked at the article itself rather than the news reporting of it. His assertion was that boys were getting the message that big muscles were appealing from their toys, & were being predisposed to use steroids to achive that look. His evidence? He measured the biceps of G.I. Joe action figures from a while ago & compared that to the same thing on current action figures. I looked at the citations of the article at the end. Over half of them were to articles that Pope himself had published in the same journal over the last several years. I finally looked Pope up in Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature & found an article on him back in the '80s in Psychology Today. It was all about how steroids in bodybuilding were ruining the sport, & he was going to spread the word about how harmful that was.

[hifrommike65]

BTW, please be careful of stating use of controlled substances on a discussion board post. Courts in the US have upheld such statements as grounds for convictions.

[Mobster]

Psychiatry changes over time allowing for reflection on: 1) changes in the concept of mental disorders, which are slow in process, 2) diagnosis-making is a social act, 3) the construct of illness and disorder, ‘mental’ or otherwise is not only physiological but a social one, 4) the construct of illness has social consequences, and 5) shifts in the concept and nature of disorder reflect wider social, political and economic forces more than scientific advancement. DSM codes are changed over time with the fifth set being the present code. Case in point, it was not until 1987 that homosexuality was removed from the DSM codes, and at that time transsexualism was introduced which changed to gender identity disorder, and in DSM-5 (2013) gender dysphoria. My point is simply that the DSM codes change. What will DSM-6 bring?

Does this mean such a 'condition' could arguably be fashionable or has it always existed but not been identified?

[hifrommike65]

Medicine is a moving target, & reflects its time. That doesn't mean it's all a crock of shit, but at times medicine does not fulfill its first goal, to "do no harm." A student of mine doing research on male doctors mistreating female patients came across a footnote to an article in a medical journal (circa 1960) that recommended hysterectomies for women suffering from postpartum depression. We did some digging & found the actual article, in a respected journal of medical research. I expect some depressed mothers got that treatment as a result of that article. Now the diagnosis would be grounds for a malpractice lawsuit.

[Big Beat]

Dorian touches on the psychology behind taking steroids and people wanting to be bigger at the start of this interview clip.

[black-elephant]

Does this mean such a 'condition' could arguably be fashionable or has it always existed but not been identified?

Depending on one's perspective, it could be both.

[hifrommike65]

I am not suggesting that bodybuilders aren't prone to certain problems. As I mentioned, I think you can work out for the wrong reasons. If you do, it catches up with you eventually. I've seen competitors who invested everything in winning a show, & when they didn't they never competed again. I've seen competitors who put their own needs ahead of their significant other, their family, & their friends. I've seen competitors who got so arrogant that they believed all the hype about their being gods among men or women. I've seen competitors who've made very foolish choices in their lives. But all of these things are variations on the things everyone goes through & do not constitute a syndrome, crisis, or mental diagnosis.

[BananaHammock]

Why is it totally appropriate for someone with gender dysmorphia to take hormones but not someone with muscle dysmorphia? One is cheered and given awards (see Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner) and the other is vilified (see anyone caught using them for any other reason).

[hifrommike65]

BananaHammock has raised something important: criminalizing anabolic use has made it illegal to be a competition bodybuilder. 'Builders are taking legal risks to win their shows. The "dysmorphia" diagnosis confirms the prejudice against bodybuilders in the culture at large.

I remember the way it used to be. A friend of mine knew someone in 1982 who went in to the doctor for a health issue. The doc took care of it, & then wrote out a prescription for steroids unasked. Those were the days.

[black-elephant]

I am not suggesting that bodybuilders aren't prone to certain problems. As I mentioned, I think you can work out for the wrong reasons. If you do, it catches up with you eventually. I've seen competitors who invested everything in winning a show, & when they didn't they never competed again. I've seen competitors who put their own needs ahead of their significant other, their family, & their friends. I've seen competitors who got so arrogant that they believed all the hype about their being gods among men or women. I've seen competitors who've made very foolish choices in their lives. But all of these things are variations on the things everyone goes through & do not constitute a syndrome, crisis, or mental diagnosis.

Should "selfishness" be added to the list of mental disorders. Rhetorical question, what is the difference between passion infused with dedication and obsession?