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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by chick View Post
    No one ever said Robin Chang had nothing to do with the IFBB Pro League....just the opposite ectually. He's also in charge of International Business for the Pro League.

    By ASSUMING you know what you're talking about...you make statements like these, which only muddy the waters for others who read inaccurate posts like yours.

    What Robin posted, are FACTS pertaining to the Pro league and the Olympia as well.

    If you've been around for a while , as you claim...then you should know better than to guess and assume. If you have a question, or need clarification...ASK.

    Robin Chang works for AMI. AMI have a big interest in how this plays out.

    Symantics and double speak doesn't change that.

    You initially say this has nothing to do with AMI but then confirm what we know, that Robin Chang is involved with the Pro League.

    There is very little information being put out there so I hypothesize that the big guns from one side of the fence, Pro League and AMI, are going after the whole of bodybuilding and in doing so will cut off the IFBB amateurs blood supply. I think that is a fair enough reflection of what has been revealed to date.

    Also questions about who will run local, regional, and national shows outside the US remains unanswered?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Beat View Post
    Robin Chang works for AMI. AMI have a big interest in how this plays out.

    Symantics and double speak doesn't change that.

    You initially say this has nothing to do with AMI but then confirm what we know, that Robin Chang is involved with the Pro League.

    There is very little information being put out there so I hypothesize that the big guns from one side of the fence, Pro League and AMI, are going after the whole of bodybuilding and in doing so will cut off the IFBB amateurs blood supply. I think that is a fair enough reflection of what has been revealed to date.

    Also questions about who will run local, regional, and national shows outside the US remains unanswered?

    Why would AMI have any interest? Aside from their own Amateur Olympia shows, which have been around a few years now, they don't stand to gain or lose anything. They put on the Olympia, which is fed by competitors from the PRO LEAGUE, who qualify at PRO LEAGUE shows....as they have been since day 1.

    Not sure what "smoking gun" you think there is that RC is a part of the Pro league....he has been, and is widely known, FOR YEARS. We literally get a handful of athletes from overseas every year that are allowed to turn pro....the ifbb amateur fed lends NOTHING to the Pro League, and hasn't for many years now. They've done everything they can to separate themselves, and hold their athletes back from turning pro to keep the money stream coming in for THEM.

    The info being put out there explains everything in detail...the fact you don't choose to believe it, or think theres some mass conspiracy at work, is YOUR choice.

    I would answer your question as to who will run local, regional and National shows...except I don't know specifically. There are promoters in place as we speak...GianRico from Italy, Myself in the UK, Tony Dougherty in Australia, and many others. Over time, we'll establish local promoters to run shows in their respective areas.

  3. #33
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    Will sanctioning events all over the world not be more lucrative for the IFBB Pro League?

    Will AMI be involved in promoting more shows outside the Olympias?

    Are the Pro League and AMI not intertwined with shared senior management in Robin Chang?


    There is no smoking gun, it's just business. There is going to be a big change in bodybuilding. Some guys are going to have "lighter pockets" and others will get richer. I don't have a problem with that if it makes bodybuilding a more cohesive singular body.

    As for more pro cards I think they have just become currency to generate bigger shows. The best guys from Europe get their pro card if they are good enough to make a mark as a pro. Giving out pro cards to guys who will never make the Olympia stage is not what I grew up with. Did more pro cards improve this years Olympia lineup? That's very debatable.

    I don't have a problem with who makes hay from this, yourself included with your new UK shows, it's just business. It's just that if the IFBB amateur is going to be put in the sidelines there has to be something to replace what they are doing in 178 countries. As I said previously it can't be a cherry pick of just the rich countries, the tentacles of the IFBB Pro League need to go further than that.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Beat View Post
    Will sanctioning events all over the world not be more lucrative for the IFBB Pro League?

    Will AMI be involved in promoting more shows outside the Olympias?

    Are the Pro League and AMI not intertwined with shared senior management in Robin Chang?


    There is no smoking gun, it's just business. There is going to be a big change in bodybuilding. Some guys are going to have "lighter pockets" and others will get richer. I don't have a problem with that if it makes bodybuilding a more cohesive singular body.

    As for more pro cards I think they have just become currency to generate bigger shows. The best guys from Europe get their pro card if they are good enough to make a mark as a pro. Giving out pro cards to guys who will never make the Olympia stage is not what I grew up with. Did more pro cards improve this years Olympia lineup? That's very debatable.

    I don't have a problem with who makes hay from this, yourself included with your new UK shows, it's just business. It's just that if the IFBB amateur is going to be put in the sidelines there has to be something to replace what they are doing in 178 countries. As I said previously it can't be a cherry pick of just the rich countries, the tentacles of the IFBB Pro League need to go further than that.
    1. Yes, sanctioning events worldwide will be more profitable for the Pro league, mores for the Individual promoters

    2. No...AMI only promotes the Olympia name

    3. Robin Chang serves both AMI and the Pro League as a consultant in Int. Business and development.

    4. It will make things more fair for the athletes. The "lighter pockets" will be the officials who have been charging outrageous amounts of money from the Athletes to turn pro ( total cost should be $250 annual dues) and hitting up the promoters for up to 60% of their entry money and sponsors.

    5. You're completely wrong with the assessment of the best guys getting their pro cards from Europe...THATS BEEN PART OF THE PROBLEM. They don't. They win shows and STILL get denied a pro card from THEIR amateur federation.

    6. Winners qualify for the Olympia which makes the amount of competitors at qualifying events, irrelevant. Best of the best will move on.

    7. The Pro League will implement the same system we have used in the USA for 40 years now....promoters at ANY level will pay a sanction fee for the ability to promote a show....ALL OTHER MONEY FROM REGISTRATION, TO SPONSORS, TO TICKET SALES...IS THEIRS!

  5. #35
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    Bob it's not true to say there is a huge issue with pro cards in Europe.

    Take the UK, in the old EFBB and then UKBFF the overall winner had to apply for a card card but they got it, that's how Dorian, Ernie Taylor, Flex Lewis etc got their pro card. It went back to the Weider principle that only the very best got pro cards. Now there are lots of bad stories going around about the UKFBB in recent years but to my knowledge they gave out pro cards to the overall Brit winner.

    Some countries have no pro cards because the standard of competitors just is not high enough. They have to go down the IFBB world championships etc route. They qualify to compete at world level amateur events but they rarely make the grade.

    There have been plenty of UK pro's down through the years. Pro cards for all class winners will be a change but it will not be possible to offer this in every European country as the competitors will fall well below the standard of a US pro. The US is still the hot bed of bodybuilding and I don't see that changing.

    Offering pro cards bumps up the number of competitors in the pro qualifiers so cards are currency. Having fair sanctioning fees is important in Europe where it will be harder for promoters to make money than it is in the US.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Beat View Post
    Bob it's not true to say there is a huge issue with pro cards in Europe.

    Take the UK, in the old EFBB and then UKBFF the overall winner had to apply for a card card but they got it, that's how Dorian, Ernie Taylor, Flex Lewis etc got their pro card. It went back to the Weider principle that only the very best got pro cards. Now there are lots of bad stories going around about the UKFBB in recent years but to my knowledge they gave out pro cards to the overall Brit winner.

    Some countries have no pro cards because the standard of competitors just is not high enough. They have to go down the IFBB world championships etc route. They qualify to compete at world level amateur events but they rarely make the grade.

    There have been plenty of UK pro's down through the years. Pro cards for all class winners will be a change but it will not be possible to offer this in every European country as the competitors will fall well below the standard of a US pro. The US is still the hot bed of bodybuilding and I don't see that changing.

    Offering pro cards bumps up the number of competitors in the pro qualifiers so cards are currency. Having fair sanctioning fees is important in Europe where it will be harder for promoters to make money than it is in the US.

    Funny...my inbox would state otherwise.

    I just got a email from a competitor who WON the Arnold fitness...and was denied a pro card from the UK because they didn't feel as though there enough competitors to justify it.....

    Others have stated they have rules in place now that if there isn't 15 or more in a class, no pro card will be issued.

    WTF kind of rules are these? Why penalize the competitor for showing up and competing?

    You might want to do a little homework , I think you'll be surprised at whats out there

  7. #37
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    Pull up a chair Bob... I'll make us some coffee.

    In fact you and the last guy are both right. I'm based in the UK and we've had some great guys win, gain their cards and make their mark. Nathan DeAsha right now and Dorian in years gone by spring to mind. Equally, for some time, in spite of high level standards, it was only the British Championships where you could get a card. I think, other than that, only 2x have cards been issued outside the event in the last 15 years. In the last 5 we've had a number of organizations (inc the PCA - set up by guys who previously worked with the UKFBB and put on the British) due to similar problems to those which have led to the split we're discussing here.

    As I previously mentioned you've US comps where almost every class gets a card and we had the British where ONE card (mens open) was issued. That's fucked up
    06, 08, 09 and now 2010 British (4x) and 2008/2010 European Grip Champion (2x)

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobster View Post
    Pull up a chair Bob... I'll make us some coffee.

    In fact you and the last guy are both right. I'm based in the UK and we've had some great guys win, gain their cards and make their mark. Nathan DeAsha right now and Dorian in years gone by spring to mind. Equally, for some time, in spite of high level standards, it was only the British Championships where you could get a card. I think, other than that, only 2x have cards been issued outside the event in the last 15 years. In the last 5 we've had a number of organizations (inc the PCA - set up by guys who previously worked with the UKFBB and put on the British) due to similar problems to those which have led to the split we're discussing here.

    As I previously mentioned you've US comps where almost every class gets a card and we had the British where ONE card (mens open) was issued. That's fucked up
    Thanks for lending some knowledge from someone who is THERE....I have literally hundreds of emails, IG, FB, messages and competitors personal accounts of whats been going on.

    All of that is about to change...enough is enough.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by chick View Post
    Funny...my inbox would state otherwise.

    I just got a email from a competitor who WON the Arnold fitness...and was denied a pro card from the UK because they didn't feel as though there enough competitors to justify it.....

    Others have stated they have rules in place now that if there isn't 15 or more in a class, no pro card will be issued.

    WTF kind of rules are these? Why penalize the competitor for showing up and competing?

    You might want to do a little homework , I think you'll be surprised at whats out there

    The rules in the UK are that the overall champion can apply for a pro card, to my knowledge they always get the card. If somebody wins the Amateur Arnold or Olympia just like the overall winner of the British finals they have to apply to the UKBFF for a pro card. Its at the UKFBB's discretion as to whether they give out a pro card based on a petition, that's the rules and how its has been going back to my days reading Pumping Press and the like (Mr McGough will have this down chapter and verse).

    These are the rules of the UKFBB and they have been like this forever. Why do the Arnold Amateur winners not automatically win a pro card? could Arnold not swing that?

    Personally I do not think you will get 5 class winners in the UK that will measure up to the 5 class winners of the US Nationals/USA/North Americans. There are exceptions like Dorian but they are rare.

    Is the standard of a pro competitor going to be lowered in general because of more pro cards, its hard to see how it will not be. What about France or Italy of the Netherlands, are they going to get a pro card for every class winner?

    In respect to bad practices the biggest problem as I see it is that the Weider's put guys in place who were loyal to them and let them run the different affiliated federations around the world for decade after decade without change. Now personally I last competed in 1992 and if I go back today to the same show I competed at the same judges are sitting behind the table 25 years later, many of them very old men. It gets too cozy a set up and these guys think they are untouchable. That's when shitty practices creep in, greed, cronyism, questionable judging etc. I would be surprised if some of this does not exists in the NPC. I think it is good the new developments will give these guys a shake up.......well in the countries the Pro League decides to operate in anyway.

  10. #40
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    Chairman for life... or so it seems... William 'Bill' Tierney. Plenty of would be pros who can tell many a story. Ask Peter McGough or Giles Thomas lol.
    06, 08, 09 and now 2010 British (4x) and 2008/2010 European Grip Champion (2x)

  11. #41
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    Ideally, everyone should be accountable & reviewed every few years. A good source for input would be the competitors themselves. If discrepancies in judging do exist, the competitors would know it.

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