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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclePoppins View Post
    SPARK NOTES

    -Flex Lewis was a clear 3rd in Korea.

    -The only shots Flex won over Jose and Hadi was the front flat spread, the reverse vacuum, and the anti-hamstring. He also wins the award for having best 1970's conditioning.

    -Ashkanani will never beat Hadi Choopan and should never have beaten Jose Raymond at the Olympia this year. The legs and conditioning are 2nd rate compared to those guys. To me the top 3 in the world of 212 is very clear.
    Wish you were a pro league judge, MP. You know your stuff.

  2. #32
    RX MEMBER Heath's Avatar
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    Since every21909356_116109025753015_4890949430577987584_n.jpgone lost their minds over Phil Heaths gut is this the reason maybe Flex topped Hadi?

  3. #33
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    Flex was off. Future Hadi v Flex showdowns will be about Mass v Aesthetics.

    Mass lovers will pick Hadi all day long but I would not be surprised if the judges eye might be drawn to quality.

  4. #34
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    I wasn't there. Moreover, I'm not trained as a pro level judge. Pix are deceptive. I've been to shows where a competitor looked excellent onstage, but the pix didn't do justice to them. & vice versa--I thought the person looked good, & the pix later revealed their weaknesses. That said, everyone is entitled to their opinion, & that is part of what Muscle Central is about.

  5. #35
    OLYMPIAN pd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heath View Post
    Since every21909356_116109025753015_4890949430577987584_n.jpgone lost their minds over Phil Heaths gut is this the reason maybe Flex topped Hadi?
    Using your analogy then Phil should've lost as well.
    Either way it makes no sense and it is without a doubt the "same old same old"
    They either have a standard and stick with it or it's just that particular day's judges opinion which creates confusion amongst the competitors/fans. (but lots of traffic on the boards)

  6. #36
    IFBB Pro Rep chick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pd View Post
    Using your analogy then Phil should've lost as well.
    Either way it makes no sense and it is without a doubt the "same old same old"
    They either have a standard and stick with it or it's just that particular day's judges opinion which creates confusion amongst the competitors/fans. (but lots of traffic on the boards)
    The confusion comes mostly from people not really knowing how to assess a physique or conditioning as it is...THEN, you throw on top of it that 99% of them are looking at pics, video, etc...

    As for having a "standard"..that would never work as physiques come in all shapes and sizes. If we took a picture of Lee Haney and said "Ok..here's your standard, whoever looks closest to this, wins"....that wouldn't be very fair...nor does everyone agree on ONE set standard.

    There are "ideals" that are generally considered when it comes to judging...wide shoulders, small waist, symmetrical physique, well proportioned, good amount of mass, ability to display the physique....THEN, it becomes a game of comparison. ( you can look really lean if everyone standing next to you is fat) etc.

  7. #37
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    Arnold said it best, something like, who would I most want to look like?
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by chick View Post
    The confusion comes mostly from people not really knowing how to assess a physique or conditioning as it is...THEN, you throw on top of it that 99% of them are looking at pics, video, etc...

    As for having a "standard"..that would never work as physiques come in all shapes and sizes. If we took a picture of Lee Haney and said "Ok..here's your standard, whoever looks closest to this, wins"....that wouldn't be very fair...nor does everyone agree on ONE set standard.

    There are "ideals" that are generally considered when it comes to judging...wide shoulders, small waist, symmetrical physique, well proportioned, good amount of mass, ability to display the physique....THEN, it becomes a game of comparison. ( you can look really lean if everyone standing next to you is fat) etc.

    That's the way I see it although there can be trends. I was looking at the 1990 Mr O somebody has posted on the board and aesthetics were held in higher regard back then than it is today. The race for mass does not suit every physiques, I include Phil in saying that. The guys feel that they must be massive now to keep up, I think this perception could do with being challenged, the judging would be a good place to start.

    BTW I am half way through your interview with Ron and I liked what you had to say about pro cards.

  9. #39
    OLYMPIAN MusclePoppins's Avatar
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    Flex Lewis was flat as hell and out-muscled and that's the bottom line.

    Photos and video are high-res these day, fellas. Time to leave your dark rooms and dark ages. No more excuses. Stop defending the judging. No I don't have to be in the first row.
    Last edited by MusclePoppins; 09-30-2017 at 03:25 PM.
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  10. #40
    OLYMPIAN MusclePoppins's Avatar
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    Wilma only looks flat here because Fred's camera uses old bird beak chiseling technology. Wilma's quads, shoulders and pecs are actually a lot fuller.

    Also Wilma (Flex) is a lot bigger than Fred (Hadi). But you can't tell in this photograph because you're not actually there.

    Wilma.JPG
    Last edited by MusclePoppins; 09-30-2017 at 03:28 PM.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclePoppins View Post
    Flex Lewis was flat as hell and out-muscled and that's the bottom line.

    Photos and video are high-res these day, fellas. Time to leave your dark rooms and dark ages. No more excuses. Stop defending the judging. No I don't have to be in the first row.

    Some things are undeniable like Phil's mid section looking poor. It was easy to see in the outline/sillohette, if he stood behind a silk screen you could se that.

    At the same time it's harder to call condition unless you are there. I never new what all the fuss was with Dorian's condition until I saw it in the flesh.

  12. #42
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    It depends. Sometimes pix & video reveal what happened onstage, & sometimes they don't. It's the nature of live performance. Some say dance cannot be filmed. If you see dance on film, you're watching a film.

    Reminds me of what Frank Zappa said on writing about music: "It's like dancing about architecture."

  13. #43
    IFBB Pro Rep chick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclePoppins View Post
    Wilma only looks flat here because Fred's camera uses old bird beak chiseling technology. Wilma's quads, shoulders and pecs are actually a lot fuller.

    Also Wilma (Flex) is a lot bigger than Fred (Hadi). But you can't tell in this photograph because you're not actually there.

    Wilma.JPG

    So...you really think theres absolutely NO difference between being seated 15 ft. away and seeing the competitors in transition and moving into poses...and pictures and video??

  14. #44
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    Everyone's an expert (according to themselves at least) behind an Internet screen.

  15. #45
    OLYMPIAN MusclePoppins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hifrommike65 View Post
    Everyone's an expert (according to themselves at least) behind an Internet screen.
    You've said that already in this thread.
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