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  1. #16
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chick View Post
    The Europeans have been held back, fleeced for money, had their dreams squashed because of a antiquated system and a split business model. No more.
    You don't anticipate Santonja taking any steps to ensure continued participation in his organization?

    And how will the IFBB Pro League help these competitors achieve their dreams?

  2. #17
    IFBB Pro Rep chick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hifrommike65 View Post
    I was laughing at the thought that Santonja is gonna lose his cash cow.

    Then clearly, you don't fully understand how this operated for many years now....

    But please, feel free to elaborate.
    Last edited by chick; 09-23-2017 at 11:27 PM.

  3. #18
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chick View Post
    Yep...well, their pockets are about to become a whole lot lighter....

    Quote Originally Posted by hifrommike65 View Post
    I was laughing at the thought that Santonja is gonna lose his cash cow.

    Quote Originally Posted by chick View Post
    Then clearly, you don't fully understand how this operated for many years now....

    But please, feel free to elaborate.
    I don't believe you are interpreting his response correctly, BOB.

    You said his pockets "are about to become a whole lot lighter...." and Mike replied (I'm assuming) in agreement with you, BOB.

    Mike is clearly on Manion's side of this equation, BOB.

    Anyway, good luck on making money on your shows. Any fears that they'll tank?

  4. #19
    IFBB Pro Rep chick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt James View Post
    You don't anticipate Santonja taking any steps to ensure continued participation in his organization?

    And how will the IFBB Pro League help these competitors achieve their dreams?
    He's already taken them...in forming his "elite" card. This was put into place many months ago on his end, without any notice to the Pro League.

    The IFBB Pro league has separated themselves from ifbb amateur.

    The IFBB PL has already begun the process of putting on IFBB PL qualifying events in Europe and Asia.

    The IFBB PL has a system in place that rewards winners of PL qualifying events...as opposed to ifbb amateur who routinely would deny competitors their Pro card despite actually winning the show.

    The IFBB PL does not ask for thousands of dollars to join the PL, as ifbb amateur has done for years.

    The IFBB PL is the ONLY way to qualify for Pro league shows, and qualify for the OLYMPIA

    The IFBB PL does not ask for 50-60% of the revenue from the promoter of qualifying shows. Promoters pay a sanction fee ( just as they do here in the USA)...THATS IT.

  5. #20
    IFBB Pro Rep chick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt James View Post
    I don't believe you are interpreting his response correctly, BOB.

    You said his pockets "are about to become a whole lot lighter...." and Mike replied (I'm assuming) in agreement with you, BOB.

    Mike is clearly on Manion's side of this equation, BOB.

    Anyway, good luck on making money on your shows. Any fears that they'll tank?
    Good point....I'm not sure who's side he's on, which is why I asked him to clarify.

    I have ZERO fear of these shows tanking...actually, just the opposite. Were expecting record numbers that we are hoping to accommodate all the competitors.

    The amount of support that Ive received has been ridiculous...literally hundreds f emails, inquiries, IG, etc....

  6. #21
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    I can't stand the Amateur IFBB. I think the direct affiliation of the Pro League with pro qualifying national organizations is the best thing that could possibly happen for pro competition internationally.

    To quote Hope van Dyne (from the film Ant-Man), it's about damn time.

  7. #22
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chick View Post
    First....history.

    The IFBB ( and subsequently, IFBB Pro League from 2005)...established themselves over 50 years ago. The Mr. Olympia became the universally accepted title of "worlds best" and Joe Weider built an empire.

    Much like in other sports, there has pretty much always been one federation, org, etc. that has risen above all others with the best players.

    The NFL, MLB, NBA, PGA, etc....all are recognized as the bets of the best. Same with the IFBB Pro League. Competitors want their name synonymous with the past greats of our sport...Scott, Schwarzenegger, Haney.....

    Same with the Amateurs...Much like I looked at the past winners of the USA and wanted my picture on that wall at Golds Gym Venice, and then compete as a IFBB Pro.

    There are two mountains ANY Bodybuilder wants to scale.

    IFBB Pro status
    Competing on the Olympia stage

    The Europeans have been held back, fleeced for money, had their dreams squashed because of a antiquated system and a split business model. No more.

    The IFBB Pro League will dominate worldwide just as the NPC has since the early 80's here in the USA.
    Was the IFBB world amateur organisation not also a Weider dream?

    I remeber you coming on the bodybuilding scene as a very yound kid and making a big impression. At that time Ben Weider was still pursuing his dream of making BB'ing an Olympic sport. Maybe that was a pipe dream but he built a massive IOC style orgaisation that he spread around the world....178 countries now or something like that.

    I always saw it that Joe and Ben were two sides of the same coin, you would know more of course because you were in the thick of things.

    As I see it the Pro League wants to break up part of what Joe and Ben did together. It seems like cherry picking to take the best of Joe and jetison what Ben was about. Will the Pro League build a 178 country strong federation? Will the commercial requirements of AMI allow for this ti happen?

    There was a vision and it was One Vision formulated by two brothers. If Ben was alive no way this new thing happens. In their pomp I do not think the Weider's would have entertained selling to AMI.

    Will the Pro League amateur wing support bodybuilding in small nations, marginalised countries, 2nd and 3rd world countries, with it bring diplomocy and the bringing together of the peoples of troubled nations through positive promotion of a healthy bodybuilding lifestyle?

    It is possible for AMI to make money in bodybuilding and have a social responsibility? big conpanies sell themselves on this being a core principle of their businesses.

    There's a lot of qustions out there?

    The last thing that should happen is bodybuilding ends up in a worse place. Strength through unity.

  9. #24
    Moderator Mobster's Avatar
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    It's not even been a week and in the age of the internet we look like we're demanding everything to have been sorted already.

    An old man wearing a blue blazer holds up the hand of a champ and it's imbued with symbolic meaning lol. So what does it mean if the 2nd place guy had his hand held up by a women in a tight dress?
    06, 08, 09 and now 2010 British (4x) and 2008/2010 European Grip Champion (2x)

  10. #25
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    Look at the reaction Kai got in India. Bodybuilding is one of the top sports in the Middle East.

    Last year a Palestinian won the Isreali Miss Fitness contest. That's a real tangible positive. I have no issue it was NABBA show.

    Now if you are something like an average guy in a 1st world country you may not give a s't and are just happy there will be a couple more amateur shows in your country and extra pro cards.

    Still I say don't underestimate the reach and spread of wide organisations . the amateur IFBB is one of the biggest bodies out there.

    There are definitely some countries where IFBB comittees have been in power for too long without change, 30 years and more, and it would be good to shake that up a bit. Its just there is a real danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    Saying its only been a week is alright but what are the Pro Leagues intentions in terms of building a world wide organisation to match the IFBB amateur. Is the aim to be in 178 countries?

  11. #26
    IFBB Pro Rep chick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hifrommike65 View Post
    I can't stand the Amateur IFBB. I think the direct affiliation of the Pro League with pro qualifying national organizations is the best thing that could possibly happen for pro competition internationally.

    To quote Hope van Dyne (from the film Ant-Man), it's about damn time.
    Thanks ...much appreciated

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Beat View Post
    Was the IFBB world amateur organisation not also a Weider dream?

    I remeber you coming on the bodybuilding scene as a very yound kid and making a big impression. At that time Ben Weider was still pursuing his dream of making BB'ing an Olympic sport. Maybe that was a pipe dream but he built a massive IOC style orgaisation that he spread around the world....178 countries now or something like that.

    I always saw it that Joe and Ben were two sides of the same coin, you would know more of course because you were in the thick of things.

    As I see it the Pro League wants to break up part of what Joe and Ben did together. It seems like cherry picking to take the best of Joe and jetison what Ben was about. Will the Pro League build a 178 country strong federation? Will the commercial requirements of AMI allow for this ti happen?

    There was a vision and it was One Vision formulated by two brothers. If Ben was alive no way this new thing happens. In their pomp I do not think the Weider's would have entertained selling to AMI.

    Will the Pro League amateur wing support bodybuilding in small nations, marginalised countries, 2nd and 3rd world countries, with it bring diplomocy and the bringing together of the peoples of troubled nations through positive promotion of a healthy bodybuilding lifestyle?

    It is possible for AMI to make money in bodybuilding and have a social responsibility? big conpanies sell themselves on this being a core principle of their businesses.

    There's a lot of qustions out there?

    The last thing that should happen is bodybuilding ends up in a worse place. Strength through unity.
    Ben Weiders dream was to have bodybuilding into the Olympics. I actually have articles that came out when I was just about 18-19 years old ( late 80's) where I mention hoping to have the chance to compete at the Olympics for the USA....

    All of Bens efforts, travels, organization of our federation...was a means to getting BB recognized by the IOC. Unfortunately, Ben would never live to see it happen.

    Lets be clear....whats going on today was NOT a part of what Ben had intended. Ben would NEVER had don business as its being done today, never had fleeced the athletes for thousands of dollars as is being done today, never have taken 60% of the profits from the promoters , etc...

    The Weider brother DID entertain the thought, as the publications were sold way back in 2004 to the tune of 350 Mil. and the Olympia in contract to AMI, this is when BOTH brothers were still alive.

    We ( IFBB Pro League) have already put in motion, a system that rewards those wishing to compete fairly for a Pro Card, and a straight road to the Olympia stage.

    As for whats going on now on the Dark Side....

    Theres a reason they call it the "Olympic dream"..because you'd have to be asleep to believe it.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt James View Post
    I don't believe you are interpreting his response correctly, BOB.

    You said his pockets "are about to become a whole lot lighter...." and Mike replied (I'm assuming) in agreement with you, BOB.

    Mike is clearly on Manion's side of this equation, BOB.

    Anyway, good luck on making money on your shows. Any fears that they'll tank?
    Quote Originally Posted by chick View Post
    Ben Weiders dream was to have bodybuilding into the Olympics. I actually have articles that came out when I was just about 18-19 years old ( late 80's) where I mention hoping to have the chance to compete at the Olympics for the USA....

    All of Bens efforts, travels, organization of our federation...was a means to getting BB recognized by the IOC. Unfortunately, Ben would never live to see it happen.

    Lets be clear....whats going on today was NOT a part of what Ben had intended. Ben would NEVER had don business as its being done today, never had fleeced the athletes for thousands of dollars as is being done today, never have taken 60% of the profits from the promoters , etc...

    The Weider brother DID entertain the thought, as the publications were sold way back in 2004 to the tune of 350 Mil. and the Olympia in contract to AMI, this is when BOTH brothers were still alive.

    We ( IFBB Pro League) have already put in motion, a system that rewards those wishing to compete fairly for a Pro Card, and a straight road to the Olympia stage.

    As for whats going on now on the Dark Side....

    Theres a reason they call it the "Olympic dream"..because you'd have to be asleep to believe it.

    So two questions come to mind:

    Why not take control of the IFBB amateur fed. Go in and clean house. Through might, money or politics get rid of Rafael. FIFA got investigated and there are guys awaiting trials and jail sentences. People said Sepp Blatter could never be shifted as president of FIFA, now he's gone.

    Was the option of taking back Ben Weider's federation considered?

    Would it be hard to strangle the IFBB amateurs by refusing pro cards, not sanctioning pro shows? No route to the Olympia etc. Then move in and take over........hey maybe this is the option, I know you couldn't comment on this.

    There are lots of good things about the IFBB ams and it would take a lifetime to try and penetrate all the countries they did. How many countries will the Pro League be operating in?

    The Weider's were very old men when they sold out, was Joe still compus mentis at the time. Ben and Joe would have held the whole ball of wax together.

    If there is corruption at play it is a police matter.

    Wanting to go to the Olympics.........you never missed a sound bite oportunity. You seem to be single handedly the PR arm of the Pro League amateurs.

  14. #29
    IFBB Pro Rep chick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Beat View Post
    So two questions come to mind:

    Why not take control of the IFBB amateur fed. Go in and clean house. Through might, money or politics get rid of Rafael. FIFA got investigated and there are guys awaiting trials and jail sentences. People said Sepp Blatter could never be shifted as president of FIFA, now he's gone.

    Was the option of taking back Ben Weider's federation considered?

    Would it be hard to strangle the IFBB amateurs by refusing pro cards, not sanctioning pro shows? No route to the Olympia etc. Then move in and take over........hey maybe this is the option, I know you couldn't comment on this.

    There are lots of good things about the IFBB ams and it would take a lifetime to try and penetrate all the countries they did. How many countries will the Pro League be operating in?

    The Weider's were very old men when they sold out, was Joe still compus mentis at the time. Ben and Joe would have held the whole ball of wax together.

    If there is corruption at play it is a police matter.

    Wanting to go to the Olympics.........you never missed a sound bite oportunity. You seem to be single handedly the PR arm of the Pro League amateurs.

    1. There are legalities at issue, which I'm not at liberty to discuss...If it were that easy, it would've been done long ago.

    2. The corruption and amount of people involved is so deep, it would be near impossible to clean it up. Much easier just separating and starting fresh. There are few people that the Pro League would want to continue with us as they themselves, are a part of the problem.

    3. The world is much smaller these days with the internet and all social media sources...what took Ben a lifetime can be done in a fraction of the time.

    I have article from 1984 or so which I state wanting to go to the Olympics...If I can figure out how to scan it, I'll post it up.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by chick View Post
    1. There are legalities at issue, which I'm not at liberty to discuss...If it were that easy, it would've been done long ago.

    2. The corruption and amount of people involved is so deep, it would be near impossible to clean it up. Much easier just separating and starting fresh. There are few people that the Pro League would want to continue with us as they themselves, are a part of the problem.

    3. The world is much smaller these days with the internet and all social media sources...what took Ben a lifetime can be done in a fraction of the time.

    I have article from 1984 or so which I state wanting to go to the Olympics...If I can figure out how to scan it, I'll post it up.
    1. I appreciate there are legalities amd you have to be careful. Still there is a lot of stuff being said about the IFBB amateurs on the internet that would be libel if it was printed in a newspaper should there not be quantifiable evidence to back up the claims of corruption. Charging high sanction fees is not corrupt or illegal, its just a shitty thing to go.

    2. If it must be a fresh start then the IFBB amateurs must be starved until they run out of business or their affiliated countries jump to the Pro League. The IFBB ams must be crushed to dust. Bosybuilding does not want to go down the boxing model.

    3. The internet makes the world small but there still needs to be boots on the ground. People in all these countries to run Pro League local and national amateur shows. Or will the Pro League and AMI just cherry pick the low lying profits and not be interested in a world wide organisation. If that happens things will get messy. If we have learned anything in the last 20 years its if you go to war you go in and flatten the country into the ground or you don't go in at all. There is a lot if work to be done and it will be an exciting time for bodybuilding which needs a shot in the. If this is the way it must be I hope the Pro League is all conquering.

    Post up the article if you get minute, you were a prodigy back then and it would be good to see the article. I can imagine you have a lot on with everything thats happening, the Pro League needs to make good choices now to build a great amateur federation for the future.

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