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Thread: high cholesterol
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07-25-2009, 01:05 AM #16
the problem is that sustained release is more taxing to the liver and should only be used by those who have no other alternatives. I've used 300mgs of plain old nicotinic acid for years now and it keeps my HDL high and I don't get the flush any longer when I take it...
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07-25-2009, 01:15 AM #17
the problem is that sustained release is more taxing to the liver and should only be used by those who have no other alternatives. I've used 300mgs of plain old nicotinic acid for years now and it keeps my HDL high and I don't get the flush any longer when I take it...
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07-25-2009, 09:28 AM #18
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Your statement originally was "flush free don't work" My point is it does work and the more it is studied the more data we have to confirm this. Secondly your dosage is low even for regular Niacin. I don't think I have ever read a study where 300mg was used daily showing a "profound effect" as you stated earlier. If you have a study at that dose I would love to read it.
I do agree that liver stress is possible with Niacin however.
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07-25-2009, 10:39 AM #19What would be the typical treatment of cardiovascular disease? First they check the cholesterol. High cholesterol over 200,
That is only 5.17-6.12 mmol/L which is average in the UK.
My cholesterol has been up to 8 mmol/L or 300 mg/dL at least twice when I have checked it when I am playing with my diet and my GP doesn't bat an eyelid at that.
My normal cholesterol is always between 4.9-5.6 mmol/L.
In the UK, the average total cholesterol level is 5.7mmol/l.
The levels of total cholesterol fall into the following categories:
- ideal level: cholesterol level in the blood less than 5mmol/l.
- mildly high cholesterol level: between 5 to 6.4mmol/l.
- moderately high cholesterol level: between 6.5 to 7.8mmol/l.
- very high cholesterol level: above 7.8mmol/l.
- the ratio between good and bad cholesterol
- the presence of other risk factors for cardiovascular disease, such as smoking, diabetes and high blood pressure.
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07-25-2009, 11:35 AM #20
What's worst is that the medical orthodoxy at the prodding of Big Pharma here in the United States of Consumption are trying to artificially push the "safe" upper limits to 160 ng/dl in an attempt to get everyone on choleostatin drugs..... it makes me sick to see the value of life placed so far below self interests and corporate profits.
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07-25-2009, 11:49 AM #21
Those examples you use are not "flush free" as are marketed as flush free OTC niacin. Those are flush free because they are released slowly. Niaspan is still nicotinic acid just a modified version that releases slowly.
And yes it doesn't take 1.5 grams of niacin to cause a change in total cholesterol in a normally functioning liver. I experimented with this three years ago. Using 300mgs a day of OTC niacin for 6 weeks and my total cholesterol went from 240 to 190. I did this as an experiment using an in-home cholesterol tester that anyone can purchase a their local pharmacy.
I also had my then 80 year old mother do to get her off of statins with her physicians agreement. She stopped teh statins and began taking 300 mgs of nicotinic acid a day instead and after 6 months she returned for a regularly scheduled exam and her total cholesterol numbers had not changed and her HDL was higher.
I also did an interview with a physician on Lipoprotein (a) being a better predictor than LDL as a risk of atherosclerosis and he confirmed my statement that there seems to a link between teh flushing and the effectiveness of the niacin. I'll dig it up and post it here.
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07-25-2009, 11:54 AM #22
Let's say 'yah' for universal health care where we have groups of scientists, clinicians and medical ethics experts overseeing some of the general guidelines for treatment (NICE - National Institute for Clinical Excellence).
There are some bonuses to having a national program, it does cost a lot of money, and the prevention of disease is far cheaper.
This is a HUGE report, there are shortened guidelines on their site.
You can google search NICE guidelines on X and see what they have to say about just about any disease.
The diet advice isn't as advanced as some of the things that we know to be beneficial, but the majority of the population is not going to change their diets in a radical manner.
This is a huge document, I took out a few bits that might interest you.
From NICE guidelines for lipid modification:
1.1 Management
Strategies for the prevention of CVD are threefold. First are interventions to reduce the prevalence of CVD risk factors in the general population. The largest number of CVD events will occur in those at low risk. Smoking cessation combined with changes in mean blood pressure and cholesterol through national reductions in salt intake, saturated fat consumption and increases in physical activity are fundamental to the national strategy for improvement.
The second strategy is interventions in individual people at high risk of developing CVD and focusing health service resources on those at greatest risk with most to gain. This strategy, largely based in primary care, includes smoking cessation and the identification and assessment of those at high risk with appropriate advice on diet, physical activity and treatment for high blood pressure and lipid modification.
1.1 Recommendations for lifestyle
Cardioprotective diet
[Hyperlink to Evidence Statements & Narratives]1.1.1 People at high risk of or with CVD should be advised to eat a diet in which total fat intake is 30% or less of total energy intake, saturated fats are 10% or less of total energy intake, intake of dietary cholesterol is less than 300 mg/day and where possible saturated fats are replaced by monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. It may be helpful to suggest they look at www.eatwell.gov.uk/healthydiet for further practical advice.
1.1.2 People at high risk of or with CVD should be advised to eat at least five portions of fruit and vegetables per day, in line with national guidance for the general population. Examples of what constitutes a portion can be found at www.eatwell.gov.uk/healthydiet and www.5aday.nhs.uk
1.1.3 People at high risk of or with CVD should be advised to consume at least two portions of fish per week, including a portion of oily fish. Further information and advice on healthy cooking methods can be found at www.eatwell.gov.uk/healthydiet
1.1.4 Pregnant women should be advised to limit their oily fish to no more than two portions per week. Further information and advice on oily fish consumption can be found at www.eatwell.gov.uk/healthydiet
1.1.5 People should not routinely be recommended to take omega-3 fatty acid supplements for the primary prevention of CVD.
Plant stanols and sterols recommendations
[Hyperlink to Evidence Statements & Narratives]1.1.6 People should not routinely be recommended to take plant sterols and stanols for the primary prevention of CVD.
Physical activity
[Hyperlink to Evidence Statements & Narratives]1.1.7 People at high risk of or with CVD should be advised to take 30 minutes of physical activity a day, of at least moderate intensity, at least 5 days a week, in line with national guidance for the general population[1].
1.1.8 People who are unable to perform moderate-intensity physical activity at least 5 days a week because of comorbidity, medical conditions or personal circumstances should be encouraged to exercise at their maximum safe capacity.
1.1.9 Recommended types of physical activity include those that can be incorporated into everyday life, such as brisk walking, using stairs and cycling (see 'At least five a week')16.
1.1.10 People should be advised that bouts of physical activity of 10 minutes or more accumulated throughout the day are as effective as longer sessions (see 'At least five a week')16.
1.1.11 Advice about physical activity should take into account the person’s needs, preferences and circumstances. Goals should be agreed and the person should be provided with written information about the benefits of activity and local opportunities to be active, in line with ’Physical activity' (NICE public health intervention guidance 2).
Combined interventions (diet and physical activity)
[Hyperlink to Evidence Statements & Narratives]1.1.12 Advice on diet[2] and physical activity[3] should be given in line with national recommendations.
Weight management
[Hyperlink to Evidence Statements & Narratives]1.1.13 People at high risk of or with CVD who are overweight or obese should be offered appropriate advice and support to work towards achieving and maintaining a healthy weight in line with 'Obesity' (NICE clinical guideline 43).
Alcohol consumption
[Hyperlink to Evidence Statements & Narratives]1.1.14 Alcohol consumption for men should be limited to up to 3–4 units a day. For women, alcohol consumption should be limited to up to 2–3 units a day. People should avoid binge drinking. Further information can be found at www.eatwell.gov.uk/healthydiet.
Smoking cessation
[Hyperlink to Evidence Statements & Narratives]1.1.15 All people who smoke should be advised to stop, in line with 'Smoking cessation services’ (NICE public health guidance 10).
1.1.16 People who want to stop smoking should be offered support and advice, and referral to an intensive support service (for example, the NHS Stop Smoking Services).
1.1.17 If a person is unable or unwilling to accept a referral to an intensive support service they should be offered pharmacotherapy in line with ' Smoking cessation services’ (NICE public health guidance 10) and 'Varenicline for smoking cessation' (NICE technology appraisal guidance 123).
1.2 Introduction – lifestyle modification for the primary and secondary prevention of CVD
There is a substantive and consistent body of epidemiological, physiological and observational evidence demonstrating that changes in diet modify blood lipids and other risk factors and that these changes are associated with reductions in morbidity and mortality from CVD. Similarly epidemiological, physiological and observational evidence supports the association between cardiovascular health and levels of moderate or greater physical activity and associates a sedentary lifestyle with increased cardiovascular risk.
It is difficult to design, fund or organise randomised trials sufficiently large and rigorous that can yield evidence for the effect of diet, physical activity, smoking cessation or multifactorial lifestyle interventions on cardiovascular events. The observational literature on diet, dietary modification and physical activity provides a large body of evidence that has been periodically reviewed for major national initiatives. It is beyond the resources of this guideline to attempt such a review and we have referenced national reports and systematic reviews and cross referred to appropriate national advice.
[1]Department of Health (2004) At least five a week: evidence on the impact of physical activity and its relationship to health. A report from the Chief Medical Officer. London: Department of Health. Available from www.dh.gov.uk
[2] See www. eatwell.gov.uk/healthydiet
[3] Department of Health (2004) At least five a week: evidence on the impact of physical activity and its relationship to health. A report from the Chief Medical Officer. London: Department of Health. Available from www.dh.gov.uk
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07-25-2009, 12:06 PM #23
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07-25-2009, 12:25 PM #24
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07-25-2009, 12:34 PM #25
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Semantics and brand naming aside, what is normally marketed as flush-free niacin is Inositol hexaniacinate and it is useless for lipid control. Nicotinic acid is what is needed if you are using niacin.
BTW Carl, I have been on 1.5-2 grams daily for several years. I get blood work done every 6 months and have had no problems.
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07-25-2009, 12:45 PM #26
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07-25-2009, 12:48 PM #27
Tammy,
1000 to 2000mg of flush free Niacin is very effective for lowering cholesterol... But you have to use flush free. The normal flush niacin is toxic on the liver & will set your skin on fire. The flkush free is time released. I had a mis step years ago that sent me to a cardiologist. previous to this, my dr did my bloodwork & noticed my cholesterol was high because of synthetic test raises cholesterol. He suggested me take the F.F. Niacin & it worked.
Anyway when I had that mis-step & I made my visit to the cardiologist, they ran the in depth tests on me to make sure I was ok, my cholesterol was excellent & I had no blockage... But I was diagnosed with testosterone induced hypertension lol..
Anyway, try starting off with 2000mg of Flush free niacin. This should help. Then, if you get your numbers where you want, lower your doseage to 1000mg. You can get this from walmart or any vitamin isle in 500mg capsules. Its cheap too..
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07-25-2009, 12:55 PM #28
Since 2003, I have taken 1000mg of flush free Niacin everyday & my liver enzymes are always good when I get my bloodwork done. And I have never experienced a flush either.. And during that time I eat a diet high in fat with lots of red meat & whole eggs, & have taken testosterone, & my cholesterol has always been great.
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07-25-2009, 12:59 PM #29
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07-25-2009, 01:04 PM #30
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