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  1. #1
    OLYMPIAN Shawn Bellon's Avatar
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    Default Training beyound failure

    Bodybuilders and strength athletes are always saying you have to train past failure to make good strength and size gains. What do they mean? There are a number of different ways of going beyond the pain barrier in order to work a muscle as much as possible, all of which take dedication and enthusiastic training, with the absolute want to make gains. The aim of a workout is to stimulate as many muscle fibres in the muscle as possible, and to do this the muscle must be trained to complete exhaustion.

    Some of us think we train hard. I used to think so, but looking back that was only at a level of about 80% of how hard I train now. Even if your diet is perfect, and you take quality anabolic aids, you will not grow if you don't give it 100% in the gym. And 100% means 100%, i.e. until you physically (not psychologically) cannot do anymore.

    Some bodybuilders claim they train better without a partner, but most find they need one, not only for encouragement, but to give assistance in order to do a few more reps after reaching failure on a weight.

    Ways of training beyond failure are discussed below, many of which require assistance from a training partner:

    Forced reps
    Train to failure, then get a spot to assist you in lifting a few more reps out, but keep your form strict.

    Drop sets
    This is where you train to failure with a weight, then immediately use a lighter weight. Typically triple-drops are used, but there's no reason not to go all out sometimes and drop until hardly any weight is being lifted, going to failure on each weight.

    Negative reps
    Positive failure is where it is no longer possible to lift the weight. This is reached before negative failure, which is where it is no longer possible to control the negative movement of the weight. Here, after you have reached positive failure, your training partner will lift the weight, and you have to control it on the way down for a few reps.

    Negative resistance reps
    This is where, after positive failure, your training partner lifts the positive part of the movement and then pushes the weight down lightly and you have to try to resist the force. For example, in biceps curls, do a set until positive failure, then your partner lifts the weight up to your shoulders; he then applies some downward pressure while you attempt to keep the weight in the curled position. Be careful with these as they can cause injury - keep your form strict, only do 2-3 reps like this and only do them occasionally.

    Cheat reps
    Obviously, cheating should be discouraged, and try to keep perfect form on all exercises to minimise risk of injury and maximise isolation effort on the muscle. However, if you have reached failure with perfect form, cheat reps performed carefully can help you squeeze an extra few reps out and go beyond failure.

    Rest-pause
    I don't see many trainers using this method, but it's very simple and effective. Simply train a set to failure, put the weight down, shake off the pain, then pick the same weight up and go again, 2-3 times.

    Half reps
    When you cannot do another full rep, do a few more with just half the movement; as this is still stimulating the muscle.

    Supersets
    Two or more different exercises may be performed in succession with no rest in between. This may be two exercises for the same muscle group, or 2 for antagonistic muscles (I feel the latter is not very effective, as you cannot give your all for the second muscle after training the first set to failure).

    Pre-exhaust
    In a workout, to maximise exertion on a muscle, try performing isolation exercises before compound movements. This will ensure that the muscle in question will be well worked from the isolation movement, so during the compound movement it will tire before other muscles, so is maximally worked. This principle is more appropriate for bodybuilders and not strength trainers.

    Different ways of training beyond failure can be incorporated together in the same set. For example in bench pressing: Train to positive failure, followed by 2-3 forced reps with your training partner; put the weight down, and strip some weight off and go again with the same principle as a triple drop; after the last drop try banging out 10 half reps. Precede bench press by dumbbell flyes, so the isolation movement is first.

    My philosophy is, it doesn't matter how you train as long as you are genuinely training to maximum effort, and you are training safely.
    SHAWNBELLON.COM
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  2. #2
    FREAK Por2gue's Avatar
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    Great compacted but informative info. Short and to the point!!

  3. #3
    RX MEMBER Hardcore's Avatar
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    How often IYO should these techniques be used?

  4. #4
    OLYMPIAN Shawn Bellon's Avatar
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    Depends on the recovery of a person. I would say you could use 2 techniques per session; meaning 1 technique for 1 exercise.
    SHAWNBELLON.COM
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  5. #5
    NOVICE HumanAnvil's Avatar
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    Future, I 've never understood this, "training to/beyond failure" stuff. I mean some of the techniques have thier place, but what ever happened to leaving some in the tank? I'd rather come back stronger the next workout than gas out completely.

    I know this may not sound "hardcore", but I see some of these techniques used by, frankly, beginner trainees and it seems like a recipe for disaster.

    What's your take on this DC craze? You seem to be an "advanced" lifter, do you use this template?

  6. #6
    NOVICE HumanAnvil's Avatar
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    * - and let me clarify, leaving some in the tank isn't me stopping cause I don't like to work hard. I just feel that a training philosophy based on "beyond failure" techniques, maybe might mean that (for some) they didn't even get close enough to it in the first place.

    And no dis to Dante, he seems to know his shit. I'm just speaking from my perspective.

  7. #7
    NOVICE HumanAnvil's Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Future View Post
    Some of us think we train hard. I used to think so, but looking back that was only at a level of about 80% of how hard I train now. Even if your diet is perfect, and you take quality anabolic aids, you will not grow if you don't give it 100% in the gym. And 100% means 100%, i.e. until you physically (not psychologically) cannot do anymore.

    ...

    My philosophy is, it doesn't matter how you train as long as you are genuinely training to maximum effort, and you are training safely.
    I should learn to read before I rant.

  8. #8
    NOVICE marcus300's Avatar
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    Excellent post Future,
    Do you have one method which your prefer and feel you respond better to or do you incorporate many methods and protocols to reach your goals?

  9. #9
    OLYMPIAN Shawn Bellon's Avatar
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    Well currently I like the hypertroiphy sets with FST-7 but rest pausing is awesome stuff too. I do like stripdowns ala Trvor Smith though.

    HumanAnvil:
    Ed Coan, the greatest powerlifter ever imo, used the same mindset that you are suggesting. Stopping a rep or two shy of failure is not a bad thing either. Its certainly an option to allow for better recovery potentially. But research is pretty conclusive though when it comes to building muscle. Take it to failure generally.
    SHAWNBELLON.COM
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  10. #10
    GYM RAT
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    I like to usually go to positive failure. Then I will fight the negative to get the most out of that last rep.

  11. #11
    PENCILNECK
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    OK, training to failure, I agrre it must be done to grow, but you have to have a limit on how far you go beyond failure. If you spend 2 hours doing drop sets, all you have left is the bar and it is all you can lift because you want to be the best, you done everything you could until you fight jsut to get the bar up, did you train to failure, or did you over train?
    We all know what over training can do. I agree that training to failure is a must, but don't train to the point of over training.

  12. #12
    NOVICE NattyGirl's Avatar
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    Great post Future! I'm actually convinced this is exactly my problem - I'm not growing as much as I'd like because I don't always push beyond failure. I try the drop-set thing and the cheat reps, but I really notice I get the BEST results from having a partner help me push out a few extra reps. The problem is that I rarely have a partner - I haven't been able to find a good steady training buddy. Most women I know don't want to workout the way I do, and the few that do lift like a bodybuilder do NOT know how to spot or really push someone - but then I also find most men don't want to train with a "small girl" (even though I can out-leg press most guys!). The few times I've asked the guys at my gym to give me a spot they look at me like I have 3 heads. So any suggestions on the best way to really go beyond failure when training alone?

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