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  1. #331
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    Just an observation.You notice how we men are the most judgemental when it comes to critiquing woman's looks even though some of us have faces that can scare some wild animals?A lot of women don't find male bodybuilders attractive.I hate that word "ugly".

  2. #332
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sledge View Post
    her face is pretty as a bashed rat.
    Poor form.


  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt James View Post
    The purpose is to sell more NPC cards and to put more butts in seats. Seats that might otherwise be filled at those aforementioned local bars and bikini contests.

    There's a strong homophobia related to bodybuilding and so Bikini may help some overcome that issue.

    Fred: "I went to the game. Man, what a close match!"
    Sam: "Uh, I went to a bodybuilding contest."
    Fred: "Dude."

    Or...

    Fred: "I went to the game. Man, what a close match!"
    Sam: "Oh, yeah? I went to this bitchin bikini contest, bro!"
    Fred: "Awesome!"
    But isn't that a personal problem for those who are homophobic?Do you really think a bikini division would ease that type of prejudice?

  4. #334
    MUSCLEHEAD Mufasa's Avatar
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    Let me throw something out to you guys for your thoughts.

    When we get into these discussions and arguments about FBB...are we "mixing and confusing" two separate arguments?


    It seems that on the one hand, there is the right to get as big and ripped as one personally desires. That's one argument.

    The other has to do with the image, adequate sponsorship and continued viability of a sport.


    While the two are interrelated, they are separate arguments.


    We should also realize that there are other Sports stuggling with the same "image" issues; and have reached a point where THEIR viability is being seriously questioned:

    Women's Pro Basketball

    The LPGA

    Professional Wrestling (mostly because of the onslaught of MMA)


    While we all may grow weary with discussing these issues, you can rest assured that the Promotors and Federations are discussing them when they decide to include FBB in a contest.

    Thoughts?


    Mufasa

  5. #335
    The Fitness View Carolyn Bryant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mufasa View Post
    Let me throw something out to you guys for your thoughts.

    When we get into these discussions and arguments about FBB...are we "mixing and confusing" two separate arguments?


    It seems that on the one hand, there is the right to get as big and ripped as one personally desires. That's one argument.

    The other has to do with the image, adequate sponsorship and continued viability of a sport.


    While the two are interrelated, they are separate arguments.


    We should also realize that there are other Sports stuggling with the same "image" issues; and have reached a point where THEIR viability is being seriously questioned:

    Women's Pro Basketball

    The LPGA

    Professional Wrestling (mostly because of the onslaught of MMA)


    While we all may grow weary with discussing these issues, you can rest assured that the Promotors and Federations are discussing them when they decide to include FBB in a contest.

    Thoughts?


    Mufasa
    You are just too smart for some of these people. Point well made.
    "If it makes my arse tight and my face bite then I don't want it!" Over 40-Fitness is Fabulous.


  6. #336
    The Fitness View Carolyn Bryant's Avatar
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    You cannot tell me that if the stage was lined up with a bunch of these we wouldn't be more popular. And by popular I mean there wouldn't be such a negative stigma attached to women's bodybuilding.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "If it makes my arse tight and my face bite then I don't want it!" Over 40-Fitness is Fabulous.


  7. #337

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    Yikes. I hate coming into a thread super late into the game.

    All I'll say is that the sporting business model here for the pro women is broken and I think it's a common problem when you're facing the issue of whether to praise marketability or sports progression. Especially in a subjective sport like bodybuilding.

    That's the problem I think all non-profit sporting organizations (assuming the IFBB is non-profit) face and it's a very difficult balance. But I wouldn't just look at the drug issue, I would look at everything including business channels, marketing channels. Heck, I don't think I've even heard of any fund-raising events promoted by the IFBB.

    If the Ms. Olympia was owned by a for-profit organization that focuses on marketability than progressive sport, Iris Kyle as she looks today will not be your Ms. Olympia and dare I say your top 6 will be a whole lot different.

  8. #338
    The Fitness View Carolyn Bryant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tre View Post
    Tammy is a 135-and-under pro female bodybuilder, you know, the type you covet so much.

    This reaction of yours deserves a thread (in the Pit) of its own.

    Why are you going to come on the forum and announce your desires to promote a show and then attack one of the very women you hoped would turn up to support your event by competing?

    You're way out of line here. You've obviously decided not to try promoting a show after all, at the rate you're burning bridges.
    Tre, you know I wuv you but I think you really want me to come home and do some really bad things to you. I did not attack her in any way. She came at me. You need to go back and read the original posts. First she told me to shut up. I responded. Then I told her she had a pro card because people like me, (which she totally misread) speak out about unfairness. From there it became I'm jealous of her. She has yet to see me in attack mode.
    "If it makes my arse tight and my face bite then I don't want it!" Over 40-Fitness is Fabulous.


  9. #339
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chase321 View Post
    But isn't that a personal problem for those who are homophobic?Do you really think a bikini division would ease that type of prejudice?
    For most, no. But public perception is a powerful thing. I believe Bikini can get more of the general public in seats than not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mufasa View Post

    Thoughts?

  10. #340
    RX MEMBER Sledge's Avatar
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    We should also realize that there are other Sports stuggling with the same "image" issues; and have reached a point where THEIR viability is being seriously questioned:

    Women's Pro Basketball

    The LPGA

    Professional Wrestling (mostly because of the onslaught of MMA)


    While we all may grow weary with discussing these issues, you can rest assured that the Promotors and Federations are discussing them when they decide to include FBB in a contest.

    Thoughts?
    Well it's realy all the same thing. Womans Basketball is not threatened, just as many woman are enjoying and playing basketball as ever. Woman's Golf is on the rise every year. But the pro versions are not viable because promoters want to make money, nobody ever suggested that the team or woman that wins the game must also be pretty or sexy did they. Shit imagine the uproar if someone had the hide to suggest that womens basketball would be much more viable if only pretty women in tight clothing were allowed to win a match.
    Amateur basketball matches don't have promotors maybe a couple of friendly local sponsors though. Amature golf matches again no promotor. Amature Bodybuilding needs a promotor to hold a comp and therefore has to make a profit. Amateur bodybuilding has a slew of sponsors to help make a profit. Why is this? Why is Bodybuilding the niche sport that even at the lowest levels is all about viability and profit.

  11. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carolyn Bryant View Post
    You cannot tell me that if the stage was lined up with a bunch of these we wouldn't be more popular.
    popular ??
    if any fbb was popular it was allways the big ones !
    chyna , raye hollit etc

  12. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mufasa View Post
    Let me throw something out to you guys for your thoughts.

    When we get into these discussions and arguments about FBB...are we "mixing and confusing" two separate arguments?


    It seems that on the one hand, there is the right to get as big and ripped as one personally desires. That's one argument.

    The other has to do with the image, adequate sponsorship and continued viability of a sport.


    While the two are interrelated, they are separate arguments.


    We should also realize that there are other Sports stuggling with the same "image" issues; and have reached a point where THEIR viability is being seriously questioned:

    Women's Pro Basketball

    The LPGA

    Professional Wrestling (mostly because of the onslaught of MMA)


    While we all may grow weary with discussing these issues, you can rest assured that the Promotors and Federations are discussing them when they decide to include FBB in a contest.

    Thoughts?


    Mufasa
    My thoughts:

    Everyone has the right to get as big and ripped as one desires. No one is stopping anyone from doing that. That does not mean that is the look a federation should be rewarding up onstage. And Federations have every right to limit their athletes through judging. The IFBB is currently and has currently place constraints on their figure athletes. The judges have CHANGED the look through their judging. Figure of today is a new look and not the same as figure of the past. It could be accomplished in short order (over a few years) in FBBing but it would take consistant judging to accomplish it. The IFBB does not seem interested in changing the direction of FBB.

    There is absolutely nothing sexist or wrong with an organization saying they want their females athletes to maintain a certain look or have some limits placed on them. It is the reality of business. I'd consider it resposible management practice. I personally feel the two arguements/issues should be delt with hand in hand. In the end however, it all comes back to judging. I do not blame the athletes at all for taking the sport to the extreme. That is the winning look and until that changes, noting will change. Athletes want to win and will do whatever it takes in any sport to acheive their goals.

    however....

    With all that said, judging certainly is much easier and straight forward when you let the sport go to the extreme. Iris has been and still is the standard. She is the best, period, and I don't think anyone can argue that. If the judges do place upper limits on the females, FBBing judging then becomes as subjective as figure..... err..... crap .... NEVERMIND, PLEASE DISREGARD EVERYTHING I HAVE SAID IN THIS THREAD, LONG LIVE IRIS KYLE!!!!

  13. #343
    MUSCLEHEAD Mufasa's Avatar
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    I did indicate that it's the Pro Level of the respective sports.

    (If I'm not mistaken, the WNBA has actually cut teams since it's inception?)



    Mufasa

  14. #344
    IFBB Pro & Senior Forum Administrator tammyp's Avatar
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    All squabbling aside....
    I do understand what your saying Carolyn, and I do agree with some it....(yes i admit it) but it is what it is, and cant see it going smaller like your suggest. Being a little girl myself, I would love to think Id be competitive as a pro, but I am just happy to have made it this far and share the stage with the best in the world. Maybe this would fall on better ears if it came from someone with a respected name in the IFBB. The problem, as I see it is your delivery. It is very condesending at times and down right arrogant. Maybe what you have to say would be much better recieved if you didnt appear to think you were superior to your peers.

    and that is all i have to say about that.
    Last edited by tammyp; 10-03-2009 at 12:02 PM.
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  15. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carolyn Bryant View Post
    You cannot tell me that if the stage was lined up with a bunch of these we wouldn't be more popular. And by popular I mean there wouldn't be such a negative stigma attached to women's bodybuilding.

    Carolyn it doesn't matter!!!!!!!!Now I can understand why some feel you're beating the same old dead horse.This is still too muscular for most people in the mainstream.No it wont make the sport any more popular.No it wont!A member of this community in his thread said he considered you too manly looking and he's a body builder.Female body building is and WILL ALWAYS be a niche within a niche if I can quote Denise Masino.Its a waste of time trying to make it more marketable to the main stream.There will always be a negative stigma attached to women's body building.Accept it and just enjoy the sport as it is!Theres nothing anyone can do about it!

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