Correa vs English

**flexingtonsteele** · 10-08-2009, 06:51 PM

I would have had no problem with either dugdale or correa winning this class.

But i did have a problem with english taking it

**GREENMACHINE23** · 10-08-2009, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by flexingtonsteele

I would have had no problem with either dugdale or correa winning this class.

But i did have a problem with english taking it

x's 2

**Ironguru** · 10-08-2009, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Chris Aceto

Well I only post when I am either quite sure I know the outcome (ie posting pics of troy knowing full well he is going to be at his all time best) and I never posted of Eduardo cause I was very concerned he would not make the weight. He did not. He had to re weigh in. But for the record, I had him first... based simply on the fact that, yes I was there in person, he was markedly tighter and just denser looking then English. Thats just my opinion which, naturally, is biased for Eduardo since I work with him. On the other hand, Shawn Ray, Flex Wheeler and Lee Priest had Eduardo winning. They are on record with that call. Having said all that, Kevin is incredible; and I think Mark Dugdale.....I dont know what to say other then he improved a hell of a lot and also was outstanding. His crunch shot; you would think its impossible he could weigh anything under 220

You make a good point Chris but you just cannot deny the sheer size of Kevin English. He really does look too big for the 202 class and may even weigh more when he's on stage. I think if Kevin wanted, he could transfer to the Open Class with about 10 more pounds of muscle.

**Chris Aceto** · 10-08-2009, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Ironguru

You make a good point Chris but you just cannot deny the sheer size of Kevin English. He really does look too big for the 202 class and may even weigh more when he's on stage. I think if Kevin wanted, he could transfer to the Open Class with about 10 more pounds of muscle.

He is freaky in ways. The two pics I posted of Eduardo; Eduardo is both harder, denser, and bigger. Granted its two pics; but I think those two pics essentially sum it up. It was really the only time they put Correa next to English.

**Northman** · 10-08-2009, 08:34 PM

I like Correa better then english for sure, Correa's side chest is sick!

**Ironguru** · 10-08-2009, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Chris Aceto

He is freaky in ways. The two pics I posted of Eduardo; Eduardo is both harder, denser, and bigger. Granted its two pics; but I think those two pics essentially sum it up. It was really the only time they put Correa next to English.

I definitely see what you're saying, Chris and you do make a very good point but I feel that Kevin English is the number one guy simply because his physique has that "freak" element to it and is able to hold it well. Eduardo has got the flow while Kevin just plain looks like a freak, especially his lat spread from the rear. Kevin is essentially a 202 guy with a 250 lbs. frame, I feel and this just might be a bit too much for the other guys to handle.

**peopleschamp11** · 10-08-2009, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by Chris Aceto

Well I only post when I am either quite sure I know the outcome (ie posting pics of troy knowing full well he is going to be at his all time best) and I never posted of Eduardo cause I was very concerned he would not make the weight. He did not. He had to re weigh in. But for the record, I had him first... based simply on the fact that, yes I was there in person, he was markedly tighter and just denser looking then English. Thats just my opinion which, naturally, is biased for Eduardo since I work with him. On the other hand, Shawn Ray, Flex Wheeler and Lee Priest had Eduardo winning. They are on record with that call. Having said all that, Kevin is incredible; and I think Mark Dugdale.....I dont know what to say other then he improved a hell of a lot and also was outstanding. His crunch shot; you would think its impossible he could weigh anything under 220

Kevin is another guy that, when I see him, my initial thought "how the hell did he make weight?"

Your bias towards Eduardo is completely understandable. I just find it funny how after the O, everyone was praising Kevin. Then, the minute his guru comes on and posts, everyone suddenly say that they picked him to win.

For the record, I had Eduardo in second. What you did with him was amazing. To be completely honest, I didn't even recognized the name until this years show.

**Thefuture** · 10-08-2009, 10:07 PM

I think if Correa could put on 10 lbs of solid muscle and could keep his conditioning I think he could be Top 10 or better in the open. I thought he was the clear winner.

**mrusa85** · 10-08-2009, 11:04 PM

I was in the second row watching the judging of the 202. I thought the judging was correct for 1st through 6th. English was the clear cut winner. Granted, his physique isn't pretty but neither is Branch's and he took 2nd in the open ahead of Dexter, Kai and Heath. Henry was a deserving second. Correa and Dugdale could have switched. They were close but I gave the edge to Correa. Correa had better separation and clarity than Dugdale. Dugdale was in good condition but I thought he looked muddy with his color. Flex faded during the course of the judging. So if ugly physiques should never place well, then Branch should never break the top 10 in any major show.

Things might look different if you're judging from photos or from the Olympia stage during the finals, but the judging was fair and English deserved the win.

**sba220** · 10-08-2009, 11:06 PM

Dave, John, and I all called Kevin the winner after pre-judging and I had Henry in second, but not that close. The judges agreed, because Kevin had straight firsts.

Correa had trouble making weight and he still wasnt big enough to hang with Henry and English. That tells me that for Correa to improve and add the thickness he needs, he could never make weight.

Kevin was the clear winner and had the best combination of size and conditioning. Henry had a little better shape, but he couldn't match Kevin's muscle. Correa was a distant third because he looked a little undersized compared to the shorter top two.

One thing I learned this year is that you get a whole new perspective when you are at the show and get the total impression of the lineup. Certain guys just pop out and win it right before you. WHen you take still shots and look at them later you can pick out things that you might have not seen at the show, but it's about what happens on that stage at that moment.

**mrusa85** · 10-08-2009, 11:11 PM

Spot on, Dros!

**peopleschamp11** · 10-08-2009, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by mrusa85

Spot on, Dros!

x2.

**godstrength** · 10-09-2009, 08:21 AM

I saw the web-cast. It was clear to me that Correa had the show. I thought Henry was 2nd. In no way was I ever expecting to see English above 3rd. I actually had Dugdale 3rd.

If you take a look at the back double bi shot that is posted, Correa clearly has a much better back than English. Not to mention that Correa also has much better bicep peak.
Correa’s ham’s have better separation and his glutes are clearly more cut than those of English….
English also has very weak calf development.
IMO there is just no comparison….

**Chris Aceto** · 10-10-2009, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Dros

Dave, John, and I all called Kevin the winner after pre-judging and I had Henry in second, but not that close. The judges agreed, because Kevin had straight firsts.

Correa had trouble making weight and he still wasnt big enough to hang with Henry and English. That tells me that for Correa to improve and add the thickness he needs, he could never make weight.

Kevin was the clear winner and had the best combination of size and conditioning. Henry had a little better shape, but he couldn't match Kevin's muscle. Correa was a distant third because he looked a little undersized compared to the shorter top two.

One thing I learned this year is that you get a whole new perspective when you are at the show and get the total impression of the lineup. Certain guys just pop out and win it right before you. WHen you take still shots and look at them later you can pick out things that you might have not seen at the show, but it's about what happens on that stage at that moment.

The problem with that assessment (although it is honest, and plausable) is two things. Shawn Flex, and Lee Priest also had Correa first. meaning; its a subjective sport and those three plus myslef could have also said the same thing; we were there in person and saw that Correa was the winner. I would also add that the pics I posted pretty much show that Correa is the winner.

That said, the real problem with both your evaluation (and mine) is that you never did see Correa exactly next to Engish. You saw Eduardo all the way to the right and maybe 20 feet to his left you saw English. Its not until yopu see them next to each other at the night show where mnay (read MANY) thought Correa was far better. Thats becasue Correa got to be right next to English. Kind of like Jay and Wolf in 2007. At this level, and with bb as developed as both Corerea and English, I think they judging schematic should require they put English next to Correa. It was not until they put Jay right next to Dexter til it was understood, "ok Jay, for sure." I am not saying you can carry that to "Correa for sure" but at the minimimum you can clearly see what they look like 2 feet from each other not 20 feet from one another. I mean this is not hte Rx muscle competition. Its the Olympia

I had the same issue really a couple weeks earlier where this time I was working w/ Troy. They had him all the way to the right and 20 feet to his left they had Hide. No one (actually I am not stretching here) had Hide Above Troy. That was call out number one. The final call out the judges took another look. They kept the guys in the same spots. Never mixed it up. Never put Troy next to Hide . Never put him next to Gustavo. Not a single time. My point; if the judges needed to see them again, then bring the same four guys out (which they did) but they did not mix them up at all.

Lastly, the ONLY mix up in sort of the stage placements I saw at the Atlantic City AND the Mr O was when they needed to switch branch W from one side of the satge to the other (or it may have been Dexter). What happened? The second they mixed them, I texted George farah and said and yes I will quote (this is BEFORE they two were in their final psotitions to hit the poses) "This means Branch is #2 for sure" I know George never expected that...but it goes to show, well at least it seems to show...when they give someone a chance who seems like he is aor can beat another guy...when they move them next to him, not 20 feet away, you can get a real comparison and make thge fine distinction and say 'Ok lets SEE who is better here."