Lean Bulk is it possible

[blu2xtreme]

Still new here - so be nice if it's a dumb question - Gman made me do it

I want to put more muscle on - don't want the scale going up much ( yes I am a girl - I hate scales )
What is the best approach to getting muscle gains in this situation:
Female - Short 5'2 124lbs - not wanting to put on more then 10 lbs to put on muscle then back to low 120's
Been doing a clean eating lean bulk but read about Daves diet that uses a women's off season diet for 8 weeks then 4 weeks keto then back again.
Any ideas on what has worked.

[gman]

My take on bulking (which is all heresay, since I have never tried it), is that you start off eating 200 cal a day above maintenance, see where you are in 2-3 weeks. If you are up more than a lb or two, you slide the calories down a little...if you are not up at all, you add 200 more calories a day. Repeat as necessary.

See, I told you I don't know much about it.

[musclemilf]

Hi blu - What's your time horizon? If you're a natty, just starting out, 10lbs of muscle in a short time period is very difficult even with proper training and diet. I've been "offseason" for 18 years (I've lifting naturally and heavy for a long time!) and am preparing for my first natural show and I look small at 5'5" 137 ~16% BF. In fact, my I really look like a figure competitor...not that's a bad thing!

I'd love to hear sassy or the other competitive ladies weigh in on this subject.

[blu2xtreme]

Hi blu - What's your time horizon? If you're a natty, just starting out, 10lbs of muscle in a short time period is very difficult even with proper training and diet. I've been "offseason" for 18 years (I've lifting naturally and heavy for a long time!) and am preparing for my first natural show and I look small at 5'5" 137 ~16% BF. In fact, my I really look like a figure competitor...not that's a bad thing!

I'd love to hear sassy or the other competitive ladies weigh in on this subject.

No time frame ... no plans to compete just love training and want to be the best I can. Not thinking 10 lbs of muscle - just that I put weight on easily - that's my concern and why I keep my diet so lean with cardio 6 days a week. I had great newbie muscle gains this year and want more

[freebirdmac]

I'm another natty 3 months into a year long (at least!) clean bulk. I'm pretty confident where my maintenance cals are and up the overall cals by 100 but I keep flexible. If it's time to make a major change in my routine or my body starts complaining, I'll go up higher. It may be a longer term increase or a short day or two calorie load. Ladies who have more muscle mass seem to be able to withstand larger calorie surpluses. If I have down time due to injury, illness, vacation, etc. I'll drop the cals a bit.

I'm not a fan of keto unless you have a medical condition that calls for it. I do keep my carbs to around 30% but not because I gain fat at higher levels, but because I bloat. And I don't like it For that reason I could see some using keto for contest prep, but not bulking. I've seen a lot of women (and men) jump on keto without really understanding why they are bloating or even understanding that they are bloating and not gaining fat. Some times it's a food intolerance. But many people would rather turn a blind eye and not admit a food they like may be the problem. Yet they'll turn to keto where they can't eat that food But to each his own. Whatever works!

I only do cardio 1-2x week. My goals are to keep the heart rate up high and improve VO2 during this time. Not to try and do intervals or HIIT to burn calories. Doing as much cardio as you are, you could be impeding muscle gains.

The scale shouldn't go up very fast. We're lucky to gain 5 pounds of dry muscle mass a year. Add in some water and you might be looking at an average of a pound a month of scale weight. Probably less. I keep an eye on my waist measurement. That gives me clues to fat gains. You just have to take into consideration any muscle gains in that area and bloating.

[gman]

You saw me, Blu, 18 months on TRT and only put on 4 lbs of lbm. A lb of muscle is a shitload, especially on a small person such as you or Pam. Imagine a lb of steak put under your skin.

You have to have to be patient and realistic.

[blu2xtreme]

I'm another natty 3 months into a year long (at least!) clean bulk. I'm pretty confident where my maintenance cals are and up the overall cals by 100 but I keep flexible. If it's time to make a major change in my routine or my body starts complaining, I'll go up higher. It may be a longer term increase or a short day or two calorie load. Ladies who have more muscle mass seem to be able to withstand larger calorie surpluses. If I have down time due to injury, illness, vacation, etc. I'll drop the cals a bit.

I'm not a fan of keto unless you have a medical condition that calls for it. I do keep my carbs to around 30% but not because I gain fat at higher levels, but because I bloat. And I don't like it For that reason I could see some using keto for contest prep, but not bulking. I've seen a lot of women (and men) jump on keto without really understanding why they are bloating or even understanding that they are bloating and not gaining fat. Some times it's a food intolerance. But many people would rather turn a blind eye and not admit a food they like may be the problem. Yet they'll turn to keto where they can't eat that food But to each his own. Whatever works!

I only do cardio 1-2x week. My goals are to keep the heart rate up high and improve VO2 during this time. Not to try and do intervals or HIIT to burn calories. Doing as much cardio as you are, you could be impeding muscle gains.

The scale shouldn't go up very fast. We're lucky to gain 5 pounds of dry muscle mass a year. Add in some water and you might be looking at an average of a pound a month of scale weight. Probably less. I keep an eye on my waist measurement. That gives me clues to fat gains. You just have to take into consideration any muscle gains in that area and bloating.

Great info thanks... I was at 50 P/30F/20carbs so pretty low on carbs - I lost 8 lbs over the last 4 months but dont feel great about it - have to many people saying - I looked better a few months ago. Just taking it all in then will make a plan

[gman]

Be careful, blu... my mom tells me I look horrible now because I am too "thin." Just make sure they are not bullshitting you.

[esplendido]

"Lean" is relative. You cannot put on muscle while either losing fat or keeping calorie/expense neutral without chemical enhancement. Women building naturally can hope for 3-4 lbs of muscle per year at first, then after a couple of years, 1-3lbs annually. The variables for women, even closely monitoring diet and training are stress and menstral cycle....and stress (did I mention stress?). Maintaining composition at about 10-15lbs over competition weight is reasonable for bulking. You need carbs to build muscle with. You need bodyfat for proper hormone regulation.

Gaining a pound or two per month while bulking (for women) is ideal, assuming a women starts lean. Begin by eating 200g good carbs per day and see how you gain over the first two weeks. Adjust the carbs up or down 50g a time to hit the ideal growth weight. It can take a couple of months to find the sweet spot.

Train heavy. No more than 8-10 reps per set, max 12 sets per bodypart. Train every bodypart once a week. Do NO cardio while bulking....use your diet as the accelerator/brake.

[Baldiewonkanobi]

I never tried a "lean bulk" in the past...always bulking up 30-40 pounds off season a la Lee Priest. I never got it right Natural and only nailed it once enhansed. 260++ down to 235 on stage.
This time around after 12 years non competetive and at a soft 233 on 11-28-2008 (on a small frame) I decided to make my last go of it lean. I was lean in July this summer at the Nationals. 195ish. I did Keto right up to last week. My plane was to stay lean for a year to let the cogger skin tighten up then on Dec.1, 2009 (I'm 7 weeks early) break Keto and add 50 gm. carbs slowly. Continuing to add carbs without stretching my belly skin and try to add muscle Naturaly. If all fails after 6 weeks then around Jan 15th think about very modest enhansement. I have watched both men and women grow INTO their contest physique. Thats my goal.

Baldie

[blu2xtreme]

"Lean" is relative. You cannot put on muscle while either losing fat or keeping calorie/expense neutral without chemical enhancement. Women building naturally can hope for 3-4 lbs of muscle per year at first, then after a couple of years, 1-3lbs annually. The variables for women, even closely monitoring diet and training are stress and menstral cycle....and stress (did I mention stress?). Maintaining composition at about 10-15lbs over competition weight is reasonable for bulking. You need carbs to build muscle with. You need bodyfat for proper hormone regulation.

Gaining a pound or two per month while bulking (for women) is ideal, assuming a women starts lean. Begin by eating 200g good carbs per day and see how you gain over the first two weeks. Adjust the carbs up or down 50g a time to hit the ideal growth weight. It can take a couple of months to find the sweet spot.

Train heavy. No more than 8-10 reps per set, max 12 sets per bodypart. Train every bodypart once a week. Do NO cardio while bulking....use your diet as the accelerator/brake.

Well I am 7 months into lifting heavy - so maybe I can squeeze a little more newbie muscle in before it gets harder. Stress - whats that - lucky for me no menstrual cycle- hysterectomy. 200 carbs a day - will be rough, already do max 8-10 so good on that. No Cardio now that is the kicker for me - have not missed more the 2 days in a row with out cardio in the last 2 years.

[D_T]

David Henry used to combine bulk & cut cycles together like so:

Weeks 1 - 4: Gain
Week 5: Hardening
Weeks 6 - 8: Gain
Weeks 9 - 10: Hardening
Weeks 11 -12: Gain
Weeks 13 -15: Hardening

During the Gain weeks he would eat for mass. During the Hardening weeks he would eat like he was on a contest diet maybe 7-8 weeks out. I'm going to try it in reverse.

[blu2xtreme]

David Henry used to combine bulk & cut cycles together like so:

Weeks 1 - 4: Gain
Week 5: Hardening
Weeks 6 - 8: Gain
Weeks 9 - 10: Hardening
Weeks 11 -12: Gain
Weeks 13 -15: Hardening

During the Gain weeks he would eat for mass. During the Hardening weeks he would eat like he was on a contest diet maybe 7-8 weeks out. I'm going to try it in reverse.

I have been reading so much that I can't find it but I remember reading about a 8 week on 4 week off bulk deal but can't find it again.

[D_T]

Here was Dave's actual plan:

Dave Henry's Calorie Cycle

Diet Cycle:
Weeks 1 - 4: Gain
Week 5: Hardening
Weeks 6 - 8: Gain
Weeks 9 - 10: Hardening
Weeks 11 -12: Gain
Weeks 13 -15: Hardening


GAIN CYCLE

Meal #1
1 whole egg + 5 egg whites
5 oz. lean beef or other meat
or 1 cup cottage cheese 1/2 cup oatmeal before cooking
Or if you're in a big hurry:
mix in a blender - 3 scoops Ultra Size
3 TBS Heavy Cream, 18 oz water
1/3 scoop oatmeal

Meal #2 (Ultra Size Mix)
3 Scoops Ultra Size, 4 TBS heavy cream
18 oz. water (or less water as a pudding)
(Optional: 4 frozen strawberries or ½ banana)
Or 1 1/2 cups cottage cheese,
1 can tuna or 6 oz other meat,
1 piece fruit (not banana)

Meal #3
7 oz. chicken (before cooking) or 9 oz can tuna
6 oz. sweet potato, red potato or 1 cup cooked rice
2 cups vegetables or salad w/ 2 TBS. Low Cal Dressing

Meal #4 (Ultra Size Mix)
3 Scoops Ultra Size
4 TBS heavy cream, 18 oz. water (or less water as a pudding)
(Optional: 4 frozen strawberries or ½ banana)
An interesting option is to mix and put n the freezer for about 3 hours
you have a frozen treat that tastes awesome
or.....
1 can tuna, 1 cup cottage cheese,
½ cup pineapple or ½ cantaloupe

Meal #5
8 oz. sirloin steak or other meat
2 cups vegetables or large salad

Meal #6 (Ultra Size Crepes)
2 scoops Ultra Size, 1 whole egg, 3 Egg Whites
¼ - ½ cup water for consistency (blend then pour in skillet and cook like pancakes).
Top with Simply Fruit Jelly and or Cool Whip


HARDENING CYCLE

Meal #1
1 whole egg + 4 egg whites
3 oz. lean beef or other meat
or 3/4 cup cottage cheese 1/2 cup oatmeal before cooking
Or if you're in a big hurry:
mix in a blender - 2 scoops Ultra Size
3 TBS Heavy Cream, 18 oz water
1/3 scoop oatmeal

Meal #2 (Ultra Size Mix)
2 Scoops Ultra Size, 3 TBS heavy cream
18 oz. water (or less water as a pudding)
(Optional: 4 frozen strawberries or ½ banana)
Or 1 cup cottage cheese,
1 can tuna or 4 oz other meat,

Meal #3
6 oz. chicken (before cooking) or 9 oz can tuna
5 oz. sweet potato, red potato or 1 cup cooked rice
2 cups vegetables or salad w/ 2 TBS. Low Cal Dressing

Meal #4 (Ultra Size Mix)
2 Scoops Ultra Size
3 TBS heavy cream, 18 oz. water (or less water as a pudding)
(Optional: 4 frozen strawberries or ½ banana)
An interesting option is to mix and put n the freezer for about 3 hours
you have a frozen treat that tastes awesome
or....
1 can tuna, 1 cup cottage cheese,
½ cup pineapple or ½ cantaloupe

Meal #5 (Ultra Size Crepes)
2 scoops Ultra Size, 1 whole egg, 2 Egg Whites
¼ - ½ cup water for consistency (blend then pour in skillet and cook like pancakes).
Top with Simply Fruit Jelly and or Cool Whip

[esplendido]

Well I am 7 months into lifting heavy - so maybe I can squeeze a little more newbie muscle in before it gets harder. Stress - whats that - lucky for me no menstrual cycle- hysterectomy. 200 carbs a day - will be rough, already do max 8-10 so good on that. No Cardio now that is the kicker for me - have not missed more the 2 days in a row with out cardio in the last 2 years.

Start with 100g carbs/day and see where that leads you. Adjust by 50g/day up or down, whichever is needed.