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  1. #31
    GYM RAT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squid View Post
    It does indeed but without bands or chain I think this isn't heavy enough
    Ok, cool. Yeah, I was thinking that was really light... what would you suggest? I'm kind of started to become interested in powerlifting recently and I'm a noob to it, so sorry if I ask stupid questions.

    How long do you rest in between each of the sets on both DE and ME days?

  2. #32
    FREAK crashcrew56's Avatar
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    On DE days I keep my rest periods short, usually there's only 3 of us doing this at a time and we use the same weight so it's just one after another. For ME usually the rest periods are pretty long.

    Maybe Travis could comment on this though, he would know more about the Westside method than anyone else here
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  3. #33
    NOVICE Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Yes, on DE day we keep the rest periods short, otherwise we'd be in the gym for 2hrs trying to get all our sets in. Accessory work is kept light (compared to ME day)

    On ME day we do take a little bit longer between sets, but not the 10min you see some guys take. I'm in the gym to train, not sit around on my butt so I like to keep the group moving so everyone has about 3-5min between sets. Accessory work is heavier and I speed things back up so I can get through it in a timely manner

  4. #34
    FREAK crashcrew56's Avatar
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    Travis, what do you mean when you say that most people use bands and chains wrong?
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  5. #35
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    Great thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strikerrjones View Post
    Ok, cool. Yeah, I was thinking that was really light... what would you suggest? I'm kind of started to become interested in powerlifting recently and I'm a noob to it, so sorry if I ask stupid questions.

    How long do you rest in between each of the sets on both DE and ME days?
    If you are new to PLing (and I assume going to train raw), I'd suggest to look up Wendler's 5-3-1 Method.

    Nothing against Westside training, but it's VERY had to perform correctly without personal instruction from an experienced lifter and lends itself to equipped training.

  6. #36
    NOVICE Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashcrew56 View Post
    Travis, what do you mean when you say that most people use bands and chains wrong?
    Most people use too much band tension, especially on dynamic effort day, both for squatting and benching. You want to make sure the majority of the weight is bar weight

    With chains, most end up setting them up in such a way that they never deload completely at the bottom. As well, it's actually the opposite with chains, people don't normally use enough because chains are expensive. They'll have one or two sets on there and unless you're really weak, it's not enough.

    Both are extremely valuable tools however

    Quote Originally Posted by Addison K. View Post
    Great thread.



    If you are new to PLing (and I assume going to train raw), I'd suggest to look up Wendler's 5-3-1 Method.

    Nothing against Westside training, but it's VERY had to perform correctly without personal instruction from an experienced lifter and lends itself to equipped training.
    This is also a very common misconception. Westside itself is not hard to use at all, although it can be difficult if you train alone. The concepts are what confuse most people

    As far as it lending itself to equipped more than raw, that is also incorrect. We train raw more than any multiply gym out there. 90% of our bench training is raw, most of the squat training is in briefs only and knee wraps are never used in the gym. Several of us have done raw meets in the past and done very well, using the same stuff that we always do in the gym, just altering the max effort choices

  7. #37
    BARBARIAN BROTHER Big Baby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    This is also a very common misconception. Westside itself is not hard to use at all, although it can be difficult if you train alone. The concepts are what confuse most people

    As far as it lending itself to equipped more than raw, that is also incorrect. We train raw more than any multiply gym out there. 90% of our bench training is raw, most of the squat training is in briefs only and knee wraps are never used in the gym. Several of us have done raw meets in the past and done very well, using the same stuff that we always do in the gym, just altering the max effort choices
    I can say from my experience (and lifting with a @the time world class lifter), Westside can be very hard because of the near max work and missed attempts.

    I don't have the article link but Wendler talks about this in an article and how frequent misses affect the CNS.

    I in no way intend to discredit Westside, but I've found for my self using the 5-3 weeks (and then deloading with high volume speed work in the 3rd week) of the Wendler 5-3-1 has been enabled me to put on a noticeable amount of mass (been getting a lot of sincere "Are you taking steroids?" lately) and smashing all-time PRs.

    I've talked to you extensively before Travis, so you know I respect you, Louie and Westside.

    I just wanted a beginner to have all his options available.

    I would also note though, a lot top raw lifters do quasi-Westside or completely different programs, so I think there's greater variation in the raw world.

    I can say Westside is hands-down the best system for equipped lifting and for some may be the best raw training method.

  8. #38
    NOVICE Travis Bell's Avatar
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    LOL well I would disagree for many many reasons here.

    The proof is in the 531, a lot of people aren't getting the results out of the program that they'd like, but to each their own.

    As far as what "top raw lifters" do, I've competed with many of them as well as talked about it, but possibly you know better than I do.

    Missed attempts are the person's own fault. When doing max effort work, you have to pick your attempts wisely, making sure you hit small PRs along the way. If you're missing attempts in the gym all the time you're doing it wrong.

  9. #39
    FREAK crashcrew56's Avatar
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    Travis, do you think you could post some of your bench workouts in here, so we can get an idea of what you're doing. Both ME and DE workouts
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  10. #40
    NOVICE Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Not a problem cashcrew56. I keep all my stuff logged, but here was today's DE bench workout

    DE Bench

    bar x warmup
    added doubled minis
    bar x 10
    135 x 10
    185 x 3 - thumb length from the smooth
    added choked purples
    185 x 3
    185 x 3
    205 x 3 - pinkies on the ring
    205 x 3
    205 x 3
    205 x 3 - comp grip
    205 x 3
    205 x 3

    Floor Press - straight weight
    *all sets thumb length from the smooth
    225 x 10
    275 x 10
    335 x 13

    Chain Press

    15
    10
    10
    8

    V-Bar Pushdowns

    80 x 15 x 4

    Close Grip Pulldowns

    170 x 10 x 4

    CSR

    2 plates 1 quarter x 10
    3 plates 1 quarter x 8
    3 plates 1 quarter x 8
    3 plates 1 quarter x 8

    CSR Shrugs
    2 plates 1 quarter x 10
    3 plates 1 quarter x 8
    3 plates 1 quarter x 8
    3 plates 1 quarter x 8

    DB OHP

    25 x 30
    25 x 30
    30 x 30
    30 x 30

  11. #41
    FREAK crashcrew56's Avatar
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    Wow, that really is a lot of volume. How long are you usually at the gym on your DE workouts?
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  12. #42
    NOVICE Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Anywhere from an hour to an hour and a half at the most

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    LOL well I would disagree for many many reasons here.

    The proof is in the 531, a lot of people aren't getting the results out of the program that they'd like, but to each their own.

    As far as what "top raw lifters" do, I've competed with many of them as well as talked about it, but possibly you know better than I do.

    Missed attempts are the person's own fault. When doing max effort work, you have to pick your attempts wisely, making sure you hit small PRs along the way. If you're missing attempts in the gym all the time you're doing it wrong.
    I'm not trying to question the validity of Westside training, but highlighting it can be a hard system to master for a beginner.

    Systems like 5-3-1 are much more user friendly and I think easier for beginners who may lack the one-on-one coaching you received.

  14. #44
    FREAK crashcrew56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Addison K. View Post
    I'm not trying to question the validity of Westside training, but highlighting it can be a hard system to master for a beginner.

    Systems like 5-3-1 are much more user friendly and I think easier for beginners who may lack the one-on-one coaching you received.

    I think as long as someone is smart when picking their numbers, and if they arn't using equipment the coaching isn't as important when using the westside method
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  15. #45
    GYM RAT Squid's Avatar
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    could I get this stickied?

    also I am with Crash on this, I feel it's pretty easy to get to grips with it's just hard for people to wisely pick numbers

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