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  1. #1
    Sponsor needtogetaas's Avatar
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    Default Why you should use hcgenerate if you use nolva/clomid for pct

    Ok personally I am not a big fan of nolva, however its a fact that nolva is never going to just up and go the hell away. So with this in mind have put together a few facts about nolva and things I feel should be taken into consideration when using nolva.


    1. Nolva/clomid both raise shbg.
    This is something I do not see a lot of people disusing so I I wanted to make it well know. Just do a web search on TAMOXIFEN,clomid or nolva raises shbg or any variation and you will get all the studies and prof you need.
    Trait Anxiety and Tamoxifen Effects on Bone Mineral Density and Sex Hormone- Binding Globulin -- Cameron et al. 64 (4): 612 -- Psychosomatic Medicine
    iHOP - Information Hyperlinked over Proteins [ SHBG ]
    Sex Hormone Binding Globulin in Clinical Perspective; Acta Obstetricia et Gynecologica Scandinavica - 66(3):Pages 255-262 - Informa Healthcare
    Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies

    2. Nolva lowers Igf-1 Again just a simple search on (TAMOXIFEN or nolva lowers IGF 1 and walla you got all the prof you need.

    In This Issue -- 82 (21): 1661 -- JNCI Journal of the National Cancer Institute
    http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cg.../49/7/1882.pdf
    Effect of low dose tamoxifen on the insulin-like growth factor system in healthy women
    Comparison of Tamoxifen and Testosterone Propionate in Male Rats: Differential Prevention of Orchidectomy Effects on Sex Organs, Bone Mass, Growth, and the Growth Hormone-IGF-I Axis -- Fitts et al. 25 (4): 523 -- Journal of Andrology


    3. Nolva or clomid do not lower estrogen!!!!!!!! And when you come off of its not uncommon to have a estrogen rebound.

    4. They can cause Major triglyceride and glucose problems and even to the point of Severe hypertriglyceridemia or also Pancreatitis

    Severe hypertriglyceridemia caused by tamoxifen-tr... [Endocr J. 1997] - PubMed result
    Tamoxifen-induced hypertriglyceridemia in association with diabetes mellitus - EM|consulte
    SpringerLink - Journal Article
    Capecitabine-Induced Severe Hypertriglyceridemia: Report of Two Cases -- Kurt et al. 40 (2): 328 -- The Annals of Pharmacotherapy
    Elsevier: Article Locator
    Estrogen and Triglycerides
    http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi.../11/8/1067.pdf
    WikiGenes - Hypertriglyceridemia

    So Yes I have heard it all before that clomid and nolva work to help recover HPTA. That is great and I am not arguing that fact. However This still does not negate these 4 simple facts ^^^^ and for the people who love to scream test results,test results test results. Well here Here ya go ^^^ test results, enjoy the:biggrin: . So Even people who love using nolva and clomid for pct should be able to agree that there is room for improvement.

    Enter Hcgenerate!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What is HCGenerate?
    HCGenerate is a natural testosterone booster that stimulates the body's own production of testosterone. It is totally legal while being the strongest over the counter PCT on the market today!
    What is it used for?
    · Post cycle therapy
    · Stimulating sexual arousal
    · Prevention of testosterone shutdown
    . Natural muscle building cycles
    Benefits of HCGenerate:
    · helps prevent erectile disfunction
    · keeps muscle gains higher
    · assists liver function
    · promotes better mood and feeling of well being
    · prevents rapid reductions in IGF
    · increases DHEA and free testosterone
    · improves HDL
    · totally legal
    · no injections
    . lowers shbg
    .to name a few, however, this is not an all inclusive list of benefits!
    HCGenerate:Supplement facts
    Serving size: 5 capsules x 30 servings per container.
    Fadogia Agrestis.................1000
    Fenugreek PE (50% testofen).....1000
    3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran....500
    Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestre: 500mg
    Vitamin E.......................200
    LJ:100..........................100
    Zinc............................7mg





    The first Ingredient in Hcgenerate
    Fadogia Agrestis.................1000


    http://www.superhumanradio.com/resea...20agrestis.pdf

    studies have show that it does in fact raise lh levels and testosterone levels. Not only this but be sure to check the feed back threads posted at the end so you can see its effects do work.


    The second Ingredient
    Fenugreek PE (50% testofen).....1000


    This is a cool one because it has been shown to
    1. Promote healthy glucose levels and healthy sugar metabolism By assisting the pancreas in production of insulin.

    Fenugreek supports healthy blood sugar levels
    Fenugreek enters modern medicine

    A few more interesting facts about Fenugreek is that it has shown to mimic testosterone by binding to the testosterone receptor sites and creating "testosterone like activity"

    Just like nolva can bind to different receptors and "act like" and even "exhibit" estrogen "like activity" yet not lower the bodies estrogen at all well doing so or even suppress estrogen production. So can other things like testofen bind to and "act like" and "exhibit" testosterone "like activity" with out having any effect on test production its self what so ever.

    So this works very well during pct when the bodies natural testosterone is low. Helping to prevent the lost of muscle that one gets when coming off of cycle.


    The 3rd ingredient
    3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran....500


    3,4 divan has shown in multiple studies to have the highest binding affinity for SHBG of all lignans investigated thus far,Thus is lowers shbg and increases free test, and we threw in a huge dose of it.
    3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran
    3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran; A Potent Testosterone Booster
    Interaction of lignans with human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG).
    Schottner M, Gansser D, Spiteller G.
    Lehrstuhl Organische Chemie I, Universitat Bayreuth, Germany.

    Lignans bind to sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG). The lignan with the highest binding affinity is (+/ )-3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran. In a double Stobbe condensation--without use of protecting groups--a wide variety of lignans with different substitution pattern in the aromatic and aliphatic part of the molecule was synthesized. These lignans were tested in a SHBG-binding assay which allowed to deduce the following relationship between structure and activity: 1) (+/-)-diastereoisomers are more active than meso compounds 2.) the 4-hydroxy-3-methoxy (guajacyl) substitution pattern in the aromatic part is most effective 3.) the activity increases with the decline in polarity of the aliphatic part of the molecule.


    Lignans from the roots of Urtica dioica and their metabolites bind to human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG).
    Schottner M, Gansser D, Spiteller G.
    Lehrstuhl Organische Chemie I, Universitat Bayreuth, Germany.

    Polar extracts of the stinging nettle (Urtica dioica L.) roots contain the ligans (+)-neoolivil, (-) secoisolariciresinol, dehydrodiconiferyl alcohol, isolariciresinol, pinoresinol, and 3,4 divanillyltetrahydrofuran. These compounds were either isolated from Urtica roots, or obtained semisynthetically. Their affinity to human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) was tested in an in vitro assay. In addition, the main intestinal transformation products of plant lignans in humans, enterodiol and enterolactone, together with enterofuran were checked for their activity. All lignans except (-) pinoresinol developed a binding affinity to SHBG in the in vitro assay. The affinity of (-)-3,4 divanillyltetrahydrofuran was outstandingly high These findings are discussed with respect to potential beneficial effects of plant lignans on benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH).


    3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran also promote the secondary messenger nitric oxide (NO) by increasing its main enzyme eNOS (endothelial nitric oxide synthase). As NO is postulated to be one of the key triggers for muscle cell proliferation and growth while also promoting muscular pumps in the gym, this aspect of3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran leads to fuller muscles that you can see and feel, thus providing significant mental motivation.


    4th Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestre: 500mg

    Debated for years now. Some swear by it and some say its junk. A few studies have show that it raises test levels and some of disproved this as well. Studies do however show that it Heightens sexual arousal. And I believe this is more do to its Ability to Up regulate androgen/sex hormone receptors in the brain. So in other words it makes them respond better.

    ScienceDirect - Journal of Ethnopharmacology : Effect of Tribulus terrestris on nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate-diaphorase activity and androgen receptors in rat brain

    5th added Ingredient
    Vitamin E.......................200


    Many studies have shown the Zinc suplamentation can have an positive effect on Igf.

    Furthermore we have all seen studies showing V-e's protective effect on Leydig cell steroidogenesis

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...bf2cc4ac924ab5

    6th Add on is
    LJ100
    LJ100 Eurycoma longifolia extract
    Study Indicates LJ100 Eurycoma longifolia extract Safely Promotes Anabolic Balance During Endurance Exercise :: News :: Natural and Nutritional Products Industry Center

    About LJ 100®

    LJ100® is a standardized, freeze-dried Eurycoma longifolia extract, containing 40% glycosaponins and 22% eurypeptides, a bioactive glycoprotein that is now clinically proven for its androgenic properties. LJ100® has undergone a patented BAT extraction process to capture 22% biologically active eurypeptides, proven in research to be responsible for increasing libido, improving sports performance, increasing fertility, and activating the enzymes that metabolize the various androgens.

    Created by the original researchers at the Forest Research Institute of Malaysia (FRIM), University of Malaya, and Massachusetts Institute of Technology, LJ100® (22% bioactive eurypeptides) has shown - in human clinical trials - an ability to increase DHEA and free testosterone, decrease Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), improve HDL, modulate cortisol, and increase IGF-1 level.



    So its pretty apparent how Hcgenerate counteracts all Negative sides associated with the use of nolva and or clomid, and it the perfect complement for this pct using these drugs. For anyone thinking about using or who has used clomid/nolva for pct I highly recommend you take what I have said into account and add hcgenerate to the mix.

    Why settle for the norm or just ok when you can go all the way and get the best of both worlds. IMO hcgenerat is the new "must have" for anyone who runs clomid or nolvadex.

    HCGenerate

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  2. #2
    GYM RAT brandonp005's Avatar
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    HcGenerate will be a part of all my PCTs

  3. #3
    RX MEMBER NYJetsFan80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brandonp005 View Post
    HcGenerate will be a part of all my PCTs
    Agreed!Nathan was kind enough to give me a discount the last time I bought this great product from NTBM and I really appreciated that my friend. I used it 5 capsules once a day all before bedtime for a month after a cycle I did of M1-4ADD and I took it with Clomid and couldn't believe how well this product worked.Usually I just use Clomid and it would still take a couple of weeks to work but with HCGenerate I felt the affects the first day with great morning wood every day and keeping all the gains I made during my cycle.

  4. #4
    GYM RAT IronCrusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by need2 View Post
    Ok
    3. Nolva or clomid do not lower estrogen!!!!!!!! And when you come off of its not uncommon to have a estrogen rebound.

    This is the most common misconception I see.


    Nolva is a SERM, not an anti-aromataze inhibitor.

  5. #5
    Sponsor needtogetaas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronCrusher View Post
    This is the most common misconception I see.


    Nolva is a SERM, not an anti-aromataze inhibitor.
    yup

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  6. #6
    RX MEMBER NYJetsFan80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronCrusher View Post
    This is the most common misconception I see.


    Nolva is a SERM, not an anti-aromataze inhibitor.
    Nathan then what do you recommend besides HCGenerate if your not going with clomid or nolva?An anti-aromatize inhibitor?If yes which one bro?

  7. #7
    Sponsor needtogetaas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYJetsFan80 View Post
    Nathan then what do you recommend besides HCGenerate if your not going with clomid or nolva?An anti-aromatize inhibitor?If yes which one bro?
    My friend if you read the write up all the way through you will see I am not saying to not use nolva or clomid. But rather nolva and or clomid has its down falls. They are not perfect because well we are all using them for things they were never intended for in the first place. They both do a lot of different things in the body. If you read the full write up all the way threw you will better understand what I am talking about. What I am saying is taking hcgenerate with a light dose of clomid or nolva is the perfect pct.

    Thanks for asking my good friend. Please feel free to ask anything you like at any time in my forums as its always welcome.

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  8. #8
    RX MEMBER NYJetsFan80's Avatar
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    Okay I read it entirely and I understand now.Thanks Nathan HCGenerate will always be a part of my PCT.
    I used it for the first time 5 caps.before bed with clomid and it worked out great my last PH cycle.It was mainly due to the HCGenerate tho.

  9. #9
    Sponsor needtogetaas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYJetsFan80 View Post
    Okay I read it entirely and I understand now.Thanks Nathan HCGenerate will always be a part of my PCT.
    I used it for the first time 5 caps.before bed with clomid and it worked out great my last PH cycle.It was mainly due to the HCGenerate tho.
    Another Photo serum would work just the same and prob feel even better. Sustain alpha can take the place of the clomid/nolva whe used with hcgenerate,. But for the die hard nolva clomid fans I am not saying its not ok to take them lol..

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  10. #10
    GYM RAT brandonp005's Avatar
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    HcGenerate is one of the best things I have added to my PCT regimen! Currently been using it for a week now in my PCT and man can I tell a difference. Just another product that works from NTBM!

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    Bump

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    BEARER OF TRUTH "Rodz"'s Avatar
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    Alwyas make the south rise again!!!!!
    Confucius say...
    A ripped guy who eats a pizza, then does an hour of cardio is still ripped.
    A fat guy who eats a pizza, then does an hour of cardio is still fat.

  13. #13
    GYM RAT MMC78's Avatar
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    Those stupid endocrinologists with their stupid science and controlled studies showing restoration of the HTPA with Nolva and Clomid. All you need is some fenugreek and zinc.

    Does your company have any credibility as to the claims you're making? You're saying that your product works better than established medical treatments. Do you have a controlled study showing that administration of your product to hypogonadal men results in a restoration of the HTPA?

    * The actual data on Tribulus and Longjack is inconclusive.
    * The data on Fadogia agrestis is based on an animal model
    * 3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran binds to SHBG but so does Proviron and that isn't typically used for PCT

  14. #14
    BARBARIAN BROTHER beezy13's Avatar
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    ^^^

  15. #15
    BARBARIAN BROTHER beezy13's Avatar
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    ^^^I've used the product (with clomid) as a pct and it worked pretty well. Now I'm not saying its the greatest thing ever or some magic pill but just maybe it does work just as well as the other. Do you know it doesn't? And wasn't proviron used as a kind of pct back in the day?

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