extinction of chiropratic: subluxation construct

[TPT]

"consumers such as bodybuilders should choose the therapist, not the therapy. choose the practitionar, not the practice."--good advice TPT and agreed....though you spelled practitioner wrong FWIW.

lmao @ teh irony of u spell checkin me ova an internet forum. take yo 2 posts and gtfo. fwiw. : )

Many Pro Basketball, Football, Baseball, Hockey, and Olympic Teams.. from many countries have On Staff Chiros. I don't think these Professional Teams would waste money on Chiros if the athletes didn't see performance enhancement and speedy recovery from injuries. Chiro can be the right treatment for the right condition. Again, research your Chiro's my bodybuilding bro's.

this logic and reasoning might be common sense and intuitive. however, it does not hold up to further scrutiny. just because professional athletes might employ chiroprators, does not mean others should employ them nor is chiropractic somehow a valid practice.

[Colossal]

Many Pro Basketball, Football, Baseball, Hockey, and Olympic Teams.. from many countries have On Staff Chiros. I don't think these Professional Teams would waste money on Chiros if the athletes didn't see performance enhancement and speedy recovery from injuries. Chiro can be the right treatment for the right condition. Again, research your Chiro's my bodybuilding bro's.

Great broscience example of "well THESE people use it, therefore it must be good."

If millions of people are spending money on a product like Airborne every cold season, does that in itself mean it's efficacious? To my knowledge there is no evidence it has any measurable benefit. People expect it to work.

I think chiropractic has it's place, although much of it is quackery (meaning there is little to no verifiable data to back up claims of efficacy), and many chiropractors work outside their scope of practice; promoting holistic nutritional therapies and trying to treat systemic disease based on the unsubstantiated subluxation construct.

[drfunction]

The world has much bigger problems than to pick on Chiros. For example: U.S. News & World Report 9/03/07 page 24-By Randall Larsen, retired US Air Force Colonel and the Director of the Institute for Homeland Security in Alexandria, VA. and Author of “Our Own Worse Enemy”
In the last 6 years :
Nearly 3,000 Americans have died from Terrorism
30,000 Americans have died from food poisoning
240,000 Americans have died on our highways
600,000 Americans have died from medical mistakes

I think the above are much bigger concerns in life.

I hear what you guys are saying and thought the Medical Journal articles below are worth knowing.Continue to educate yourselves and stay fit. Move well, eat well, think well.

Journal of the American Medical Association 5/20/98: the study's author, Stanford University researcher John A. Astin, Ph.D., surveyed more than 1,000 randomly selected people throughout the United States and found that 40% of the respondents reported using some form of alternative health care during the past year, including chiropractic. Those using alternative medicine were no more dissatisfied with or distrustful of conventional medicine than nonusers. Among all respondents who reported being highly satisfied with their conventional practitioners, more than one-third also used alternative therapies. He also reported that users of alternative medicine tend to be better educated and have a more holistic approach to health than those who use only conventional medicine.

New England Journal of Medicine 1993;328(4):246-52: the study's author, Eisenberg, M.D., surveyed 1539 people with medical problems occurring in the previous year and found that there were more visits to unconventional providers than to general practice MD's in the year of 1990. For 5 of the 10 most commonly cited medical conditions, they were more likely to seek unconventional care than just traditional medical care. There were more visits to unconventional providers (such as chiropractors) in the entire year: 425 million vs 388 million. 1 out of 3 Americans used some unconventional care and spent $14 billion on it. (The highest use was by non-African-American persons aged 25 to 49 with college educations and incomes greater than $35,000 per year).

Annals of Internal Medicine 1997;127(1):61-69: the study's author, Eisenberg, M.D., noted that more than 70% of the patients who use alternative treatments never mention them to their medical doctors. He goes on say to his medical colleagues that they must address the challenge of discussing alternative treatments with patients because patients are using alternative treatments whether traditional medicine likes it or not.

American Family Physician 1996; Nov 15: 2205-2212: the study's author, Gordon, M.D., reports that since Eisenberg's landmark article, the use of alternative medicine has... increased to more than 40% of the US population... It's important to integrate aspects of alternative medicine into family practice... in less than a generation the approach and techniques currently called "alternative" will be an integral part of practice of all family physicians.

American Medical News 1997; April 7: 13-18: the author, Shelton D., reports that the AMA recognizes the demand for alternative health care. This has been forced on them by the public's growing demand for access to alternative care options and the health care market's search for ways to reduce costs. This mainstreaming trend has allowed alternative medicine to lose much of its cult-fad status and forced the medical establishment to take it seriously. Chiropractic is the largest category of alternative care with 50,000 D.C.s in the US. The health care system of the 21st century will have conventional and alternative providers working side by side.

Fundamentals of Complementary & Alternative Medicine: editor Micozzi, M.D., Ph.D. says "It's a tremendous consumer movement, a social phenomenon & a reality in health care today."

In other words it has reached critical mass. It has become a tremendous consumer movement. The public's mind over what health care should be has been changing over the past five decades; people have realized that they can ask questions and demand answers, and that they can and should make their own health care choices.

[Cogrick2]

What an important post. Thank you, TPT! I am glad I stopped going to a chiropractor after experiencing no benefit and significant inconvenience, and spending $800.

[TPT]

What an important post. Thank you, TPT! I am glad I stopped going to a chiropractor after experiencing no benefit and significant inconvenience, and spending $800.

good, cogrick. i assume we all would rethink using any practitioner who provided no benefit for us.

for those interested in reading more editorial on the topic. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=4068

[tribal]

but doesnt it feel fuking good? thats more then enough benefit for me to get it done

[TPT]

but doesnt it feel fuking good? thats more then enough benefit for me to get it done

lots of people do report that.

[ob205]

lots of people do report that.

Yes they do, but I think you feel great after doing some Yoga and Foam rolling as well! Hope that foam roller doesn't knock me out of alignment!

[TPT]

an article by a chiro on 'how chiropractic subluxation model threatens public health.'

http://www.chirobase.org/01General/risk.html

[ThePoser]

Good read, but all I can say is that I have walked into a chiro's with so much (lower back) pain that I couldn't even sit or stand up straight. Walked out fine and thanked him!

Same thing has happened with my neck and even my jaw!

[chucksm00th]

Good read, but all I can say is that I have walked into a chiro's with so much (lower back) pain that I couldn't even sit or stand up straight. Walked out fine and thanked him!

Same thing has happened with my neck and even my jaw!

I have to agree on back pain. Ive been regularly seening a chiroprator sine my back went out 3 times in 2 weeks. I didnt even work out the day prior and I woke up in agony not being able to even put my shoes on. I got a consult they took xrays and my spine was semi curved at the base (making my right hip higher thanmy left). After a few visits I felt much more mobile and my lifts have even improved in the gym.
Alot of people think they are a waste but they do help some people. Im a firm believer that it helps and works.

[Curt James]

thanks, ob.

yes. historically, it is a fact that chiropractic is more mysticism than science. this is emphasized by the logic and reasoning behind the 'subluxation' being the determinant of disease. thus, fix the subluxation with a mere adjustment to fix the disease. we know that this is erroneous and many use this simplified construct in practice. (snip)

Then pass the mysticism, bruddah!

I had incredible neck pain that radiated to my right shoulder years back. Saw a free visit coupon to Becker Chiropractic in Lemoyne, PA. Visited his shop. Got an adjustment and it was as if someone had flicked a light switch. The pain stopped immediately.

No push for follow-up visits. No pressure of any kind. I visit occasionally for a $20 co-pay.

Placebo or reality, the pain is gone!

Im a firm believer that it helps and works.

Amen.

"consumers such as bodybuilders should choose the therapist, not the therapy. choose the practitionar, not the practice."--good advice TPT and agreed....though you spelled practitioner wrong FWIW.

No one cares about spelling. Trust me, I checked.

[Anthony]

I've also had good success with chiros - key is to find the right one. Bad back/hip pain was quickly relieved, numbness from apparent nerve impingement fixed in one visit. The mechanics with those issues seem simple enough - nerve is squeezed between bones - adjustment takes the pressure off the nerve.

[towtheline]

Have any of you out there noticed how PT's are seemingly wannabe chiro's? They try to manipulate, educate on posture and spinal mechanics, try to teach home stretching and core strengthening...All stuff my chiro was doing 20 years ago. There wasnt a PT around back then. Now the PT's bash chiro and try to do exactly the same thing. You will find some quacks out there, much like MDs, we can start all whole new thread on ADD, Depression and so on. Big Pharma owns those bastards. Had to vent, long post.

[s2h]

i go to a chiro once a week that uses active release method...i find this to be a big help compared to the "quacky" chiros that think they can cure cancer by manipulation of the upper back..