bringing up lagging body parts for old people

[gman]

Just curious for some of you masters vets out there, and trying to get our subsection to have some more activity.

What is the best way for us to bring up lagging body parts as older bodybuilders?

For example, my legs are fine, but my upper body, particularly shoulders, are lagging.

Should we do the lagging body part twice a week, and other parts once?

Just hit the lagging part 10x harder on its day?

Or what?

[esplendido]

Interesting that you should mention shoulders. Those were always a lagging body part for me. I used to train them with chest and triceps (push-pull cycle).

4 years ago, I decided to give shoulders their own day....nothing else worked with them. I do 4 exercises; military press (on Smith machine) lateral raises, front raises, and rear flies on reverse pec deck. I do work traps at the end with 3 sets of shrugs.

With the shoulders isolated, I decided to go HEAVY, meaning weight that only allows 6-8 reps. I currently use 60lb dumbbells for lateral and front raises and have to add 60lbs to the 220lb stack on rear delts. I rep with 255 on the smith machine and occasionally use 275.

My shoulders blew up....and especially my traps, which get worked hard during front raises.

My point is, isolate the lagging body part. Train it heavy. Keep getting heavier and that part will come up.

[gman]

thanks, Rick.

I have been doing a shoulder day for quite some time, but am doing light weight. I had never thought of going real heavy on raises.

Is it ok to cheat up the weight a little, that's why I haven't gone heavier, because my form goes in the shitter. I mean, I am still only doing 20lbs for laterals.

[esplendido]

Mike, proper form is overrated! Strictness is relative. You want to move a weight so that the maximum force is applied requiring maximum effort over a select range of motion. "Cheating", meaning using a swinging motion, or other muscle to move a weight is bad only if that action takes the stress OFF of the target muscle. If a weight is heavy enough that it needs a "running start" to begin, but in the middle or end of the motion places proper stress on the target muscle, it's a good rep.

Shoulders grow best on flies when the weight is held parallel to the shoulders at the top of the motion. Lower or higher is less effective. So a little swing at the bottom to get the weight up to shoulder height is ok if you can pause just a nanosecond at the top of the movement. If you can raise the dumbbells in an even motion to the top, the weight is too light to produce gowth.

At the same time, if the weight is so heavy that not only do you give it a swing at the bottom, but you 'duck' under it at the top to get it to the top, the weight is too heavy.

Your arms should NOT be fully extended straight out, as that puts way too much shear at the elbow. Your arms should be bent forward a little at the top of the movement, where the db's are slightly in front of the plane of the body rather than in the plane of the line through the shoulders. You should supinate the dumbbells as you raise them up, which means beginning with the handles perpendicular to your body (just like holding them in a relaxed position at your side), and turning them as you raise them so that the handles are parallel to the floor (imagine the same position as a wide-gripped bench press). More or less, your knuckles will be up at the top of the movement.

Front flies will always have a little 'swing' at the start if you're using enough weight to grow on. You do NOT turn the dumbbells while raising them. AND, you do not keep your arms extended straight as you raise the weight. They should have a slight outward bend to them to put the stress on the shoulders and not the elbows. Make sure that at the top of the motion, your bent elbows are at the same height as your shoulders. Below or above will make the move less efficient.

Rear delts are always best worked on a reverse pec deck. But bent over dumbbell flies will work. Your rear delts get hit hard during back work, too, especially during bentover rows or seated rows.

Hope that helps. I know it's a lot of info, so you might ask someone in your gym to help or practice with light weight at first.

[gman]

Great info, Rick.

I look forward to trying this out next Tuesday on shoulder day.

By outward bend on the front raises, do you mean have your arms wider than shoulder width slightly, or having the elbows bent to be wider than shoulder width but keeping the hands shoulder width?

Just doing them at my desk, I am guessing the former, because I can feel the delts working harder that way.

Too bad I don't have any hardcore people at my gym to train with or have watch me. If you can believe it, I am the most hardcore one there in the mornings! lol

[esplendido]

Great info, Rick.

I look forward to trying this out next Tuesday on shoulder day.

By outward bend on the front raises, do you mean have your arms wider than shoulder width slightly, or having the elbows bent to be wider than shoulder width but keeping the hands shoulder width?

Just doing them at my desk, I am guessing the former, because I can feel the delts working harder that way.

Too bad I don't have any hardcore people at my gym to train with or have watch me. If you can believe it, I am the most hardcore one there in the mornings! lol

The dumbbells should come up in front of the shoulders.

[gman]

I done guessed wrong again! Not the first time in my life!

[Bryan Hildebrand]

touching on shoulders...
I really like doing my presses HEAVY and then moving to traps to pre-exhaust them completely before isolation movements. being an endo, my delts have always been strong, but i've had difficulty bringing size to them. this has helped a lot.

smith machine militaries: 135, 185, 225, 275, 315, 335 for 4.
Icarian machine presses: 1 set stack for max reps - 20-25 usually.
BB shrugs. 135 up to 845.
BB front raises
1 arm DB lateral raises
DB reverse crossbody raises
wide grip upright rows

they have grown tremendously over the past year. so much wife says they are her new favorite body part on me.

[Bryan Hildebrand]

and I train them completely on their own. no tri's. only abs to finish.

[gman]

I love this thread so far. I am ready to try to go heavier and grow. One question though, since I am trying to cut 25-30 more lbs, can I grow my shoulders, or any other part for that matter on a caloric deficit. Or is it wise to get lean first, then start trying to get bigger muscles?

[esplendido]

I love this thread so far. I am ready to try to go heavier and grow. One question though, since I am trying to cut 25-30 more lbs, can I grow my shoulders, or any other part for that matter on a caloric deficit. Or is it wise to get lean first, then start trying to get bigger muscles?

Typically, you'd only maintain what muscle you have as you diet down. In certain cases, especially where a muscle group has not been seriously challenged before, you can add a little muscle to that group during a diet by shocking it....as in heavy training where light training was all it got. But the growth will be minimum.

Strength, however, is another thing. You can actually improve your strength during a diet, and then allow the rebound after coming off the diet to cause rapid growth. It's very typical that strength precede growth.

[gman]

So basically I need to go for it!

[Youngguns]

You need to use weight you can handle. Go for higher reps, low reps aren't for shoulders. By low reps I mean under 6, even then that's very few.

Shoulders can take a lot of stress, keep the reps high, and the rest times low.

[gman]

I am a living example of low weight, high reps for shoulders, and as you can see, I have absolutely nothing to show for it after 3.5 years.

[Youngguns]

Then that is either your genetics, or you have unrealistic goals...

Remember, when I say light, I mean after 12-15 reps you want to throw the weights...

Increase load, eat enough food- growth.