bringing up lagging body parts for old people

**gman** · 03-11-2009, 12:29 PM

....

**beau** · 03-11-2009, 03:37 PM

6-8 reps has worked best growth wise for me on almost every bodypart....only exception is legs where i like to do 8-12 reps. Take Esplendido's advice, clearly your not happy with the results you have been getting with higher reps. So change things up. Best of luck!

**esplendido** · 03-11-2009, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by youngguns

You need to use weight you can handle. Go for higher reps, low reps aren't for shoulders. By low reps I mean under 6, even then that's very few.

Shoulders can take a lot of stress, keep the reps high, and the rest times low.

YG, this is the Masters forum and the thread topic is regarding Masters issues. You do not have enough experience to comment as you have above. I'm sure you mean well, but you are very much off-base. There isn't a muscle in the body that grows better with light weight, high reps, than with heavy weight, medium to low reps.

Lift for another 20 years, or at least compete and win at the State level before offering advice to your seniors. Free advice....

**gman** · 03-11-2009, 03:59 PM

Thanks, Rick!

Time to blast the shoulders instead of "tone" them lol!

**sassy69** · 03-11-2009, 06:13 PM

I didn't really gather that it matters if you're "old" or not with the approach you take to build lagging parts. Instead I think it has more to do w/ reviewing your current protocol and evaluate if it is working. IMO one of the worst lies people tell people is only do light weights, high reps. I want to choke when I see women flapping around in the gym w/ 5 lb weights telling me they are "going for reps, not weight". The point is rather to constantly change up the influences on your body and observe what you respond best to, but also change things up regularly because even the "best" response stuff can stagnate.

**gman** · 03-11-2009, 06:55 PM

I see women doing 1 arm rows with 5 lbers, and want to say something, but I am too polite.

Good advice Sassy

**BoneBz** · 03-11-2009, 09:25 PM

My favorite shoulder routine has been

rear delts (any rear delt move, I like to change it up) 6 sets
standing barbell military press 4 sets
side laterals 4 sets
shrugs(behind the back usually, sometimes in front or with a machine)

Always pyramiding the weight while progressively lowering the reps. Warm up sets can be as high as 12-15 reps and working sets can be as low as 4-6.

**sassy69** · 03-12-2009, 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by gman

I see women doing 1 arm rows with 5 lbers, and want to say something, but I am too polite.

Good advice Sassy

Tonite I almost beat a girl who had the balls to put 5lb plates on the leg press and then proceeded to LEAVE them on the leg press. Holy sheep. Seriously.

TB · 03-12-2009, 04:56 AM

Gman, if you want width, then there is no better exercise than Side Laterals. I prefer to do them seated and eliminate body swing as much as possible. I use a thumb over grip which necessitates using staps with heavy dumbells. As esplendido describes, your arms should be unlocked at the elbow. Keep your elbows from going above shoulder height, as this brings the traps into play and try to keep your palms parallel to the floor or even very slightly tilted forward. 3 heavy sets plus a lighter high rep set and your arms should weigh a tonne while hanging there!!!
In my opinion and from my experience, this will cap your delts nicely and add real width to your physique.
I do Dumbell Press, Seated Side Laterals and Rear Dumbell Laterals. Sometimes I add cable movements to further fry them.
Hope this helps!!
TB

**esplendido** · 03-12-2009, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by NYC BIG MIKE

Ouch.

**sassy69** · 03-13-2009, 11:54 AM

You tell 'em Grampa

**gman** · 03-13-2009, 11:59 AM

he could squash younguns with one thumb, even at his advanced age.

Anyway, back to the topic on hand. Do the principles outlined by esplendido pretty much apply to every body part?

**esplendido** · 03-13-2009, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by gman

he could squash younguns with one thumb, even at his advanced age.

Anyway, back to the topic on hand. Do the principles outlined by esplendido pretty much apply to every body part?

Damn! You guys are BRUTAL.....

Now, where the hell is my Geritol....?

**gman** · 03-13-2009, 12:29 PM

in the cabinet with your Carter's Little Liver Pills

**esplendido** · 03-13-2009, 04:40 PM

Mike, I hope others chime in on your question, but let me give you my take. Muscle responds to the stress put on it. A long distance runner places aerobic stress on his/her muscle trying to maximize endurance balanced with speed. Note their muscular development. A sprinter, also a runner, places anaerobic stress on his/her muscle to maximize speed balanced with endurance. Note their muscular development.

A bodybuilder simply tries to place stress on the muscle to develop size. Shape comes with size and has very little to do with specific training. Size is a response to load. The heavier the load, the larger the muscle gets.

Load is fluid. It can mean raw weight. Push as heavy as possible. Load can also mean stress. Wear the muscle down (break it down) to cause growth. Both are combined in bodybuilding training.

I apply a pyramid technique to training a muscle. I warm it up in preparation for stress. Then I load it in increasing phases to draw more muscle tissue into the lift. It's a well known fact that the body will recruit only the least amount of contraction to move a weight. Your first working set might engage 50% of the muscle's fiber. You would then increase the weight for the next set to utilize the ready 50% plus requiring the body to engage more fibers. Usually, you can achieve 100% muscle involvement with 3-4 working sets, each in increasing weight. The final set should be working the entire muscle structure.

Getting to that 100% engagement can be accomplished in a number of ways. Pyramiding is one. Another is pre-exhaustion, performed by doing a light set to exhaustion and moving to 1 or 2 working sets at max weight (for 6-8 reps). Negatives is a way to overload the muscle, as is drop sets. Giant sets also pre-exhaust the muscle.

HIT routines do so in 1 set by using straight lifts, rest/pause, and forced reps (assisted).

In the end, the idea is to take the muscle to 100% engagement and overload it at that point. In my pyramid training, I do that by incorporating a single max lift at a weight a little heavier than my previous best, or at least equal to my previous best with a spotter there to make sure I complete the lift.

Light to medium weight with high reps are good for pre-exhaustion, but as a means to an end actually train the muscle for endurance.

The injuries and pain every successful bodybuilder WILL experience come from pushing that limit. Smart lifters just barely push the limit as opposed to handling way too much weight in a single or multiple rep set. Steady pushing or pulling are essential to avoiding injury as opposed to jerking, bouncing, or launching a weight.

The only muscle I've ever seen respond well to moderate weight/high reps are the calves. Look at professional cyclists calves and they are huge and ripped. That says something about the unique structure of that muscle, Heavy still works well, too.

Hope that helps!