Nonischemic Cardiomyopathy - that is what I have...

**Franz'Kaiser' Beckenbauer** · 04-13-2010, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

To save Chris a whole lot of responses, he seems to have answered most everyone's questions in a very frank manner in this thread:

In the hospital this weekend - MuscleChemistry.com

cheers mate

**D_T** · 04-13-2010, 10:39 PM

The good thing is that you went to the doctor when you sensed real trouble. I see too many guys trying to get diagnosed on message boards. "hey guys, I'm peeing and coughing up blood...should I cut back on my cycle?" NO DUMBSHIT! GET THEE TO A DOCTOR!

Chris250 did the right thing and now he'll be around for a long time. We might have to start calling him Chris210 though.

**chris250** · 04-14-2010, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by rodneyl

Chris, welcome(?) to the club. I have been recently been informed I now have congestive heart failure. I have one final test next week to determine the extent of the damage. Somewhere between 35% and 50% function is all that I have left. And before anyone says anything about steroids, mine is a result in untreated sleep apnea for 35 years, heavy smoking for 20 year, non smoker for 30 years as well and most importantly, uncontrolled HBP for 10-15 years. Having breathing problems and obviously not able to compete this year as planned.

I am doing some information search for "solutions" or help and will be glad to share with you. Good luck to you.

Rodney, Yeah the doc's wanted to blame AAs to...but honeslty after they looked into it more they said it was High B.P. more than anything else..thats why they think I can recover from this..next week im doing a sleep study to see if I have sleep apnea (which im sure i have) ..Thats why the doctor said HRT is no problem, but just not doing heavy dosed cycles anymore...But hell, I dont even think about doing a cycle that I could compete at USA or Nationals...I got my little girl to think about...HRT is fine with me...

**Rocco1943** · 04-14-2010, 05:58 PM

good to hear things are getting clearer as to the cause. It's so easy to blame steroids especially docs that aren't real familiar with them. The wall thickening has to do with both heredity as well as HBP. I would see a doc and he would say well your pressure is 160/80, you need to watch that, keep an eye on it etc. But, none of them ever asked about lifting or said don't lift heavy with HPB, so I kept it up. If you have to, keep trying different masks as someone mentioned, I'm not even supposed to nap without one. Good luck to you.

**chris250** · 04-15-2010, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by rodneyl

good to hear things are getting clearer as to the cause. It's so easy to blame steroids especially docs that aren't real familiar with them. The wall thickening has to do with both heredity as well as HBP. I would see a doc and he would say well your pressure is 160/80, you need to watch that, keep an eye on it etc. But, none of them ever asked about lifting or said don't lift heavy with HPB, so I kept it up. If you have to, keep trying different masks as someone mentioned, I'm not even supposed to nap without one. Good luck to you.

thanks bro...I got my sleep apena appt. next monday...

**zachdg** · 04-15-2010, 05:51 PM

How old are you Chris? and how long have you had high bp for? atleast that uve known of?

**chris250** · 04-15-2010, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by zachdg

How old are you Chris? and how long have you had high bp for? atleast that uve known of?

im 36 - High Blood pressure has been for atleast a few years but probably alot longer than that..Just my family doctor never really checked into it that much ...and he never seem to concerned about it...Atleast for me to take him seriously

**saiyajinali** · 04-15-2010, 08:14 PM

Its not a death sentence, & many people are walking around with an enlarged heart & don't even realize it...

Kris Dim is an excellent example... Kris Dim has all the muscle that his genetic limit will allow being on 500mg of test, or 4000mg of test. Doesnt take a shitload of gear to maintain real muscle...

Awareness is key..

He probably felt better & his heart probably works better while in contest shape, than off season sans the water retention..

**zachdg** · 04-15-2010, 08:37 PM

Well I wish you all the best Chris. This makes me wonder how many pros are on blood pressure medication or have had to get it taken care of through medical means. What do you guys think is the most common way bodybuilders address blood pressure issues? anything besides the obvious, being medication?

**saiyajinali** · 04-15-2010, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by zachdg

Well I wish you all the best Chris. This makes me wonder how many pros are on blood pressure medication or have had to get it taken care of through medical means. What do you guys think is the most common way bodybuilders address blood pressure issues? anything besides the obvious, being medication?

controlling water retention...

through diet, cardio, & if gear is used, watching the high androgens & taking antiestrogens..

**Mr.Bones** · 04-16-2010, 01:57 AM

I wonder if all the heavy weight lifting has any effect on the thickness of the heart.

It has to pump harder so it becomes a larger muscle yes?

**saiyajinali** · 04-16-2010, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Bones

I wonder if all the heavy weight lifting has any effect on the thickness of the heart.

It has to pump harder so it becomes a larger muscle yes?

yes.. Its common for weightlifters to have enlarged hearts. May not be to the extreme to have a condition, but enlarged never the less.

**zachdg** · 04-16-2010, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by saiyajinali

controlling water retention...

through diet, cardio, & if gear is used, watching the high androgens & taking antiestrogens..

Alright well if this were simply the case than how do you explain soaring blood pressure on non aromatizing aas's like tren

**saiyajinali** · 04-16-2010, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by zachdg

Alright well if this were simply the case than how do you explain soaring blood pressure on non aromatizing aas's like tren

Tren is an high androgen, like Halotest is an high androgen that doesnt bloat.

Androgens have a tendency to elevate blood pressure more so, period...

One of the side effects of Androgenic steroids AND Anabolic steroids is the retention of sodium..

Sodium retention elevates blood pressure.

Even though one may not have excessive water retention from using tren, it still holds water within the muscle.

Tren gives a user a hard & full appearance without 'excessive' androgen bloat.

Some people it may or may not effect because it depends on the person's genetic predisposition to hypertension and water retention.

**MaxC** · 04-16-2010, 08:37 PM

It is well accepted fact that Androgens cause high BP--This is the primary reason that men have earlier onset heart disease than women. Androgens cause more muscle mass, but higher blood pressure. Sucks but, Its fact. Tren is considered more androgenic than test, it binds to the Androgen receptor with 3x the affinity of test.