Perpetual Gains Cycling

[jacshelb]

I keep thinking about and alluding to a new way of cycling for the average gym rat/juice head/board member where:

1) health isn't compromised

2) test production doesn't stay shut down

3) are able to make honest to goodness perpetual gains

4) are able to stay lean or get even leaner while consistently adding mass throughout the year

Now, this isn't for a mass monster who never comes off. But, it if you want to retain your own natural test production, keep your health in check, and gradually and consistently make awesome gains, this way of cycling may be for you! (cheesy, yeah, I know)

I will admit up front that I haven't totally put this into play for myself yet. I've just toyed around and fiddled. I'm currently prepping myself to get in the groove of this way of cycling as we speak- priming the machine for new growth I guess. I'm small right now, around 200-205 lbs and about 7% bf and dropping bf for the next few weeks. I'm actually in one phase of this cycle, but haven't implemented the whole thing effectively. I think it'll take a year to really prove the efficacy of it, if not longer.

But, for now, I want to share my thoughts behind it and why I think it makes sense. Also, I am more than happy to add to this if I'm off on something, let me know! If you have a drug that would be better or a good addition, let me know! This is my first go around, rough draft of this, but I'm excited about it and fully believe in it- mostly from doing everything the wrong way, this is all that's left! lol.

Step 1) Make sure your bf % is below 10%, the lower the better to begin with. If you need time to get to that level, take it. Take 6 months if you need to, but start lean!

Step 2) The actual gains part of the equation. Now everyone has somewhat different experience with various amounts and various different anabolic steroids. If you have a favorite/preferred stack, start with this as your base.

Mine is: Testosterone- 500-750 mg/week, Tren acetate or NPP at 250 or 500 mg respectively. Sometimes I'll add in 20-30 mg of orals per day as I feel, sometimes I won't. That's my basic "base."

This is plenty for me, may not be shit for you. Or, may be more than you need, I don't know- you probably do. So go with what works for you.

Insulin

Now, I know some are touchy about the use of insulin. I believe that many people are afraid of shutting down their own natural production, going into a coma etc. That's a healthy fear. That's why my own personal approach to insulin use is to use humalog at 6-10 iu pre workout, taking advantage of the dextrose/bcaa/creatine intake before and during the workout. If you are unfamiliar with insulin use in this way, read up on it, there's plenty out there on the boards. Basically, what using insulin like this will do is add aprox 25-33% more mass than a steroid only cycle. And, if you keep it to 3-4 times per week, since humalog is so short acting, it's barely a blip on your natural production/sensitivity radar!

Be very careful when using insulin. Some are very sensitive, start with just 2 iu your first couple times if you choose to use it and make sure to keep protein and carbs on hand. If you have a crash, a candy bar is your friend! The fat actually helps you from crashing further and stabilizes your blood sugar levels. I'm not saying have a candy bar if you don't need one. But, it's good to keep one with you in case of emergency only. Sometimes a whey or dextrose shake will temporarily spike insulin levels higher creating more of a crash! So, research, research, research before touching the stuff, and work your way up in iu's slowly and carefully. It is dangerous, very dangerous. But, well worth it if you are careful and smart about using it.


HGH

There are many cheap sources of GH these days, making it an affordable addition to a drug regimen. HGH is one of those drugs shrouded in mystery and given some kind of special powers as if it is somehow going to make a night and day difference if you are on it or not. Well, I don't think so. But, a conservative dose of 2-4 iu every day, over time, will aid you in keeping lean, healing connective tissue, keeping the skin looking young, aid in recovery, and add new mass in the long run.

Now, there are a couple effective ways to go about using GH. Using 2-3 iu per day split up in 2-3 shots will give you decent results overall for fat loss and the above mentioned benefits. Currently I'm enjoying simply 1 iu morning on empty stomach and 1 iu evening before bed. But, for mass and still some good fat loss, some advocate 1 large shot 3 times per week pre or post-workout (immediately before or after workout). We're talking 6-12 iu here. I will likely go back to this method when attempting to add size. I like to stretch my $ as far as I can, so it'll be probably along the lines of 6 iu post workout to take advantage of the igf-1 spike GH gives as well as the fact that my muscles will be saturated with glycogen due to the insulin/dextrose/bcaas etc taken pre-during workout.

Now, alternatively there are lots of growth hormone secretogues that are quite effective when used often enough. A combination of ghrp-6 and grf-1-29 taken 3 times per day at 100 mcg ea is said to be equal to 4 iu per day. I wouldn't know, but there's lots of stuff like that out there with guys who swear by it. Some say it's equal to GH, some say it's better because it's not shutting your natural production down. So, an approach such as this may be an occasional "off" period break from real gh to try a different, but equal approach- both in results and price because a cycle of these peptides will run you the same (iu's of gh vs results of mg of peptides!) cost as a run of GH!

I'll probably give this a shot (pun) at some point to give myself a change and break from GH use and let my body begin its own production again.

IGF-1 and MGF

I really want to give these two a try. There are better experts out there than me (on everything, but especially on shit I haven't tried!!). But, basically, what I like about the idea of these two items is that you can run them when bulking, cutting, on aas, off aas etc. You're on for 4 weeks, off for 4 weeks etc. The dosing protocols are a little complex. But, what I'm looking toward for my first try is MGF pre workout and IGF-1lr3 post workout in light doses. My workouts are short and the basic principle is the MGF activates the sattelite cells, the workout stresses the muscle, and then the IGF-1 defines and "finishes" the process by basically telling the newly activated satellite cells to become new muscle- especially when your injects are small and in the muscle worked.

Summing up Bulking/building

I know for certain a lean person who hasn't used aas in 6-8 or more weeks is going to grow using testosterone and other aas as I've outlined. I also know that insulin used properly can yeild at least 25% more gains. And, GH helps add mass, fights fat and keeps you generally in a good growth place. Using this method of cycling with a short cycle- 6-8 weeks with hard training (I tend toward heavy, brief training myself) and excess calories (think bodyweight in lbs x 20 = cals per day aprox) high in protein with plenty of good carbs and fats- you will grow!

I've got to get some sleep, but I want to get into the next phase of this when I get the chance tomorrow. Obviously, I'm just a layman who likes this stuff. I'm no expert and basically just thinking out loud. Take what you like from this, add your opinions, ideas whatever. I'm just putting together a cohesive overall drug regimen/plan that'll suit my needs.

Like I say, I'll post the rest of it tomorrow, I'm beat. Later.

[Ninja Loco]

Sticky. Let's explore and discuss.

[jacshelb]

Thanks Ninja! That's very cool of you!

I know what I posted above was pretty basic, every-day stuff, but I wanted to establish a simple approach for gaining size that a lot of guys use- tried and true.

Now, the tricky parts for me have been:

1) Keeping gains post cycle while still giving myself time to recover

2) Keeping off the excess fat

So, here's my ideas on pct/bridge for keeping gains, lowering fat, and recovering natural test production and why.

Aromasin

I love Aromasin (exemestane) and it's cousin Formestane. I like these two compounds because they don't fully kill off all estrogen like Letrozole seems to. You "feel" better on it than with letro, clomid or arimidex. It's easier on your cholesterol etc than Nolvadex. And, it's a suicidal anti-aromatase, so less chance of estrogen rebound once off it.

Unless I'm doing contest prep, I don't like using an anti-e during an actual cycle. If it's absolutely necessary, fine, but most of the time I'll use "as needed", i.e. nips get sore, too much water weight etc. That's all personal preference stuff.

Where aromasin really shines is post cycle imo. It raises igf-1 levels 28%, stomps out progesterone, estrogen etc. and helps get the testosterone flowing naturally again. All of which are desirable post cycle especially. I start aromasin as soon as the aas begin to clear my system and take it for about 3 weeks from that point on- until the "boys" start working fine on their own again.

Now, you could alternatively use Clomid, Nolva etc etc. But, if you have the chance, give 12.5-20 mg of aromasin a try/day and I think you'll like it.

GH

I am experiencing using GH post cycle for the first time and liking it. Low dose is fine for maintaining muscle, continued fat loss etc. You can probably get by with 1-3 iu per day. I'm using 2 and fine with that for pct purposes. Skin looks better, recovery from workouts is optimal etc etc. GH is subtle in its effects, but cumulative over time, it's good shit.

Again, if you don't have access you can go the peptide/secretogue route from "research" sites etc. Just do your reading before going with one of these to be sure to get the best results.

The idea with GH for our purposes here is that it obviously doesn't shut down hpta/suppress natural test production. Yes, it will suppress GH production, but that's why you switch off to peptides/secretogues when you come off.

SARM S4

This is the key-stone to my bridge/pct theory. S4 is not a super potent replacement for testosterone as some have said. It is a subtle but noticeable drug that gives excellent results for dry, lean gains and body recompositioning- not to mention strength! Right now I am post cycle after my heaviest cycle ever and after many many weeks of dieting and still dieting and my strength is damn near as good as ever thanks to s4.

Used independently of a cycle you can expect to gain 3-4 lean, quality lbs of muscle on s4 over the course of 5-6 weeks. It won't look like you "blew up" or "got swole", but it works. And, all said and done, isn't 3-4 lbs of actual lean muscle during that time what you'd be left with after a moderate aas cycle anyway? Minus the bloat and other sides.

Used during pct, my experience has been that I keep 85-95% of actual gains from a cycle using it vs. maybe 35-40% not using it! This is because it keeps your muscles strong and anabolic while you are recovering your natural test production. It won't help with hpta issues, but doesn't seem to hurt either. In the meantime, there's no post-cycle "crash".

PCT use- 50 mg/day divided into 2 doses (morning and pre-workout or morning and night, whatever) and take only 5 days per week, giving yourself 2 full days to let it clear your system to prevent vision side effects. The vision side effects come on after a build up of s4 in your system and make it hard to transition from light to dark- like outside, then going to the basement or something. Takes longer to adjust, which affects night driving, and if you take enough of it, can tint vision yellow. All vision sides dissappear after a few days off it and most don't get those sides at 50 mg./ day anyhow.

MGF and IGF-1... again

Again, since MGF and IGF-1 can be used in mini cycles all year, it doesn't hurt to schedule one so that you have some benefit during your time "off" aas etc. Another key thing about MGF/IGF-1 is that you just use it 3 x week around training. It's short acting and this way won't compromise your health or downgrade your receptors too quickly. I recommend reading extensively up on these two with an eye toward conservative cycling approach.

DNP

This is another "controversial" area. But, it's an amazingly effective drug that has gotten a bad rap due to a really bad popular approach being used: i.e. taking high doses (500-900 mg/day) for short periods (like 1 week). I can see the appeal of dropping 8-12 lbs of fat in a week, but why do we have to do it that way?

With a clean diet, good training, and a bit of cardio (not even a lot), DNP can be used very effectively at 150-250 mg/day or less! And, at those doses, you hardly notice you're taking it, except you are losing fat while retaining muscle the whole time.

Now, some people are extra sensitive to it and can't handle even 150 mg, well, don't use that much. Start low and work your way up. Take 75 mg/day for 5-6 days and see how that feels, then 150 for 5-6 days and so on. Once you start to feel too sluggish or just like crap all the time, back the dose down. If you have 250 mg caps and want to moderate this, take 1 cap one day and bust it open and weigh out half a capsule the next day! It builds in your system over time- 36 hr half life. So, after 5 days of continued use, 200 mgs/day equals 500 mgs of actual dnp in your system. So, don't get carried away. Slowly find your tolerance level/sweet spot and live with it. Life is too short to be miserable!

Have water on hand at all times, keep hydrated. And, don't use dnp in crazy hot weather as it will raise body temp. If you are a contractor and work on steel roofs all summer, it's a no no! Research before attempting and use plenty of common sense.

Why do I actually recommend DNP? Well, used in low doses, it is still effective, easy to live with, and can actually have health benefits. It has been shown to reduce cancerous growths and many other little things like that. Though, there are also risks. So, like I say, research, decide for yourself. Just don't go solely on the opinions of any one person. Gather facts and make an educated stab. Also, it is muscle sparing- not anabolic or anything- just allows you to lose fat without being too catabolic. It operated independently of the adrenal glands, so you aren't putting yourself in a catabolic state as you do with many stimulants and other fat burners. So, this is perfect for our purposes.

Putting it all together-

Basically, we're looking at a "gaining" cycle of aas of 6-8 weeks using steroids, GH, insulin, and high calories. It's a tried and true combo. And, if you train hard enough, get enough rest and eat enough, it will be effective. Psychologically, it's all about getting in there and hitting it hard in a two month or less "burst". You don't get bored, you don't get "used to" it, you just get in, kick some ass, make your gains and get out.

Next, it's 5-7 weeks "off" (off aas and insulin) using GH (or a secretogue, your choice), S4, aromasin (first several weeks), and DNP while taking in low-moderate calories. We want plenty of protein during this time, low fat, and moderate carbs. The low fat is because we're using dnp, it burns carbs for "fuel" that stokes the fat burning process. We're making a little room to get those carbs in by reducing the fat intake to 40-50 grams per day or so. Training doesn't have to change much during this time, unless we just keep things a bit more brief. Still keep it heavy, change it up as needed.

In my experience, what is going to happen is something like this:

1) 200 lb, lean bodybuilder starts the gains part of the cycle. Using the protocol above he ends up gaining 30 lbs of overall mass during the 8 week cycle. Now that's water, fat, and muscle.

2) Coming off we keep the GH, but make sure to take it in divided doses every day. We add in the aromasin and s4, DNP, and, if the time is right, the igf-1/mgf. When the water weight/blood volume from the test clears your system you'll drop water quickly- especially due to the aromasin. Your 230 lb body will drop down 8 lbs from excess water, and another 3 or so lbs from blood volume etc. As your aas clears totally and the aromasin kicks in you'll end up weighing about 218-219 lbs. Still not bad, and remember, we were lean and "primed" before the gains cycle which is what makes this possible.

3) You go about your pct bridge taking in lower, but moderate calories. If you are said 218 lb bber, it'd be something like: 2600 ttl daily calories, 250 grams of protein, 250 grams of carbs, 50-60 grams of fat. Don't start cardio right away, don't over-train! Just let your body adjust the first couple weeks. The DNP should be kicking in, the water weight should be reasonable at the low dose. You won't be nearly as "full" looking by a long shot. But don't let that fuck with your head. That's just the DNP doing it's thing and all part of the process. You'll notice that your strength is still pretty damned, surprisingly good, in the gym!

Keep this going for 6-8 weeks total, whatever your preference. As you go, you'll be losing fat. Lower your calories accordingly, cutting down fat preferably. You can go as low as 30-35 grams per day and feel fine. And, you can have a cheat night once per week, say on the weekend. You may add in cardio, but do it sparingly, just 20 min here and there, maybe working "up" to 30 min 3 x per week.

The results of the "pct" is going to be that you end up losing about 6 lbs of fat while retaining damn near all your muscular gains. I'm very serious about this. It's a moderate approach and in all likelyhood you'll end up weighing (using our example) 212 lbs at aprox the same bf level as before the "bulk up" if not better.

The good thing is, 1) all of this took 4 months total 2) You ended up just as lean or leaner 3) you kept your muscle gains 4) Your testosterone production recovered 5) You didn't compromise your health with crazy high doses of anything or for extended periods of time 6) You are primed and ready to go all over again! 3 of these per year.

Think about it. If you can get in this "groove" you'll be keeping lean and gaining 10-25 lbs of new muscle size in a year, depending on your experience level (cause yeah it gets harder the more you gain and go along). This doesn't require you to truly ever be off some kind of assistance, yet, your health and natural test production continue to be in the same basic place as if you were doing typical gym rat cycles that take you 2 steps forward and 1 step back every time.

Well, there's the gist of it. I'm sure I forgot some stuff and I haven't really proof read it- so if I accidently wrote "take 1000mg of dnp 2 x day" you might want to use your own judgement...

[jacshelb]

If it all sounds "too promising" I want you to consider that a lot of really massive guys gain this much or more using the "hit it with a big hammer" method of just taking a lot of test, gh, and so on. There's nothing wrong with that approach per se, it's just not going to be for everyone. And, most likely, it's not for the average gym rat (like me).

Most guys want some kind of "balance", for health, natural test production etc etc. Even if it's mostly mental, it gives the sense that you are still in control and not surrendered fully to being dependent on heavy doses year round. It gives some flexibility and is open to customization. For example: lets say a guy doesn't have access to actual anabolics or gh. Well, he could get a lot of the same benefits doing a short (4 week) cycle of p-plex and m-drol (yeah, I know, yuck) and then follow up with s4 and a gh secretogue like ghrp-6. There's no injections or serious legal risks with that- though it isn't by any means ideal. I'm just saying that the same principles would apply: 4 weeks gaining (vs 6-8) and 4-6 weeks burning some fat, say using a keto diet, s4 and the secretogue.

It's just the general idea of "serious bulk, then refine, and repeat" with actual results instead of 2 steps forward, 1 step back. For all the time I've been doing cycles I've struggled with that, never keeping as much as I'd like, yet never wanting to just give in and stay on all the time. So, for me, and others in my position (hobby builders, not serious competitors) I believe this "puts it all together" in a way that gives us 1 more option over stay on all the time or make shitty losable gains.

And, I'm looking forward to putting it all into practice and seeing how it turns out!

[jacshelb]

Oops, I made a mistake in my last post about ghrp-6- yes, injections are needed. Just caught that. But, most of us are pin cushions already, lol.

[Liquid]

Question on the Insulin. I've been doing research on using Humulin R pre workout and in the morning starting off with 2iu each time. I've always read that if you feel as if you are going hypo to take a dextrose, waxy maize, maltodextrin type drink. Not all combined just one of them and to avoid any fat as it may slow down absorption of the sugar needed. But never heard of it causing you to crash more?

Also on the timing of the Humulin R if I was to take it 2 hours pre workout have a whey/dextrose drink immediately and then a regular meal an hour and a half later then go workout. Is that good?

[jacshelb]

About the fat- I just like to have something with fat in it in case of a blood sugar drop. Sometimes it's weird things that cause it, nutrition is a little off for the day, timing etc. If I have something like a snickers or a reece's cup handy, for whatever reason something with sugar and fat seems to stop the crash better than if I just pound sugar. But, that's only for emergencies. I want to avoid fat at all costs if possible just after taking insulin.

I've never used humulin-r. I've always used humalog. With the humalog I do it like this:

15-20 min before workout- humalog shot 6-8 iu (I had to work up to that starting at 2 iu and going slowly), begin to drink a shake of dextrose (60-90 grams), bcaas (20+ grams), creatine, glutamine etc. I drink this shake before and during the workout- one shake. Immediately after the workout I have whey (50 grams) and a bit more dextrose (15-20 grams or so if that). Then, about 45min-1hr post workout I have a whole food meal, low in fat, but with complex carbs and protein. Something like lean ground beef on whole wheat w skim milk. Remember, I'm not talking about using slin while dieting, just for gaining.

[jacshelb]

In light of recent studies showing left ventricle damage over long-term use of aas, I've been thinking about how to modify my ideas on cycling to be more "long-term friendly."

As I understand it, it is the nandrolones (tren, deca etc) and 17-alkylated steroids (orals) that have the most adverse affects on cholesterol and liver values and so forth. And, the only problem that testosterone seems to present is higher blood pressure due to raised estrogen levels.

So, with that in mind I'm thinking of something like this:

gains cycle, 8 weeks-

testosterone (any ester or mix of esters)- 750-1250 mg/week for duration

humalog- 6-10 iu pre-workout with proper carbs, creatine, bcaas etc 3-4 x week

HGH- 6-10 iu post workout 3-4 x week

igf-1, mgf protocol optional.

Aromasin 10-12.5 mg per day duration

My thinking behind this is- Given equal, or near equal time off in between, testosterone alone (w/ anti e) is not going to give the crazy blood lipid levels, liver issues etc that orals and other injectables might. HGH used only 3 times per week, even at 10 iu per dose shouldn't have much affect on overall systems since it's only in the system a short time. Alternatively igf-1 and mgf could be used the similarly post workout as they clear the system quickly. The humalog used only 3 times per week is also not going to affect insulin levels much. But, it will drive a lot of nutrients into the system during the workout. Overall, I think a person could see a lot of gains, relatively safely (even long term) using a cycle like this.

What does everyone else think? I'd love to get some feedback on this as I'm thinking of dropping tren (or my other options: npp or EQ) from my usual stack and just going with the cycle outlined above. The whole idea is squeezing out maximum gains with minimal sides by using a variety of approaches (i.e. HGH, slin, test, anti-e etc) all working together (if used properly) making the whole greater than the sum of it's parts.

[hilly]

I like the whole idea surpisingly immensly similar to what i have written up myself the this future year of gaining minus the dnp/cutstyle during pct but i will use clomid and nolva with aromasin - personal preference it works for me.

I agree insulin pre workout is the dogs bollocks if ure going to use it. I actually think growth 3 x per week pre bed works best for me and will be doing so during againing phase.

As i train late afteroon shooting growth pwo may inhibit my rem sleep growth burst were taking it pre bed will magnifiy it or that is my theory.

question for u pal how would u shoot the mgf/igf.

Im thinking MGF with breakfast on training days into the muscle trained the igf with my pwo meal into the same muscle. From my reading immediatly pwo doesnt make sense as will shut down own igf levels.

for funds wise i will use growth at 8iu mon/wed/fri and train mon/tues/thurs/fri. slin pre workout.

then during pct i will run the ghrp6 just to help me save money more than anything.

Cycle wise i will limit mine to 6 weeks inline with a heavy training cycle, cardio off days. the cycle will be test 750mg per week first 4 weeks then test p 150mg mon/wed/fri last 2 weeks. either npp/masteron/tren thrown in or an oral noth both. i will rotate these from blast to blast to see which works best for me.

Overall a great post my friend

[jacshelb]

I like the whole idea surpisingly immensly similar to what i have written up myself the this future year of gaining minus the dnp/cutstyle during pct but i will use clomid and nolva with aromasin - personal preference it works for me.

I agree insulin pre workout is the dogs bollocks if ure going to use it. I actually think growth 3 x per week pre bed works best for me and will be doing so during againing phase.

As i train late afteroon shooting growth pwo may inhibit my rem sleep growth burst were taking it pre bed will magnifiy it or that is my theory.

question for u pal how would u shoot the mgf/igf.

Im thinking MGF with breakfast on training days into the muscle trained the igf with my pwo meal into the same muscle. From my reading immediatly pwo doesnt make sense as will shut down own igf levels.

for funds wise i will use growth at 8iu mon/wed/fri and train mon/tues/thurs/fri. slin pre workout.

then during pct i will run the ghrp6 just to help me save money more than anything.

Cycle wise i will limit mine to 6 weeks inline with a heavy training cycle, cardio off days. the cycle will be test 750mg per week first 4 weeks then test p 150mg mon/wed/fri last 2 weeks. either npp/masteron/tren thrown in or an oral noth both. i will rotate these from blast to blast to see which works best for me.

Overall a great post my friend

Thanks man, much appreciated. As far as the igf-1, mgf goes, I'm a newbie to it so I can't advise. But, s2h laid out the basic tried and true method in another thread recently. And, from everything I can read on the net about it (hours and hours of searching/reading!) it is dead on. Here's a quote from that thread and I agree strongly with it!-

"peg mgf pwo..followed by torrent (supplement, shake)...then 1 hour later 30 mcg of igf-1 in each muscle group worked...then a meal w/ protien and white rice....you will swell up like no other."

The idea is that mgf will really go to work on the muscles that are damaged causing something to happen with the satellite cells. Then, later, the igf-1 helps direct the cells to become new muscle cells. I'm obviously over-simplifying it (if not mangling the ideas behind it!), but it's the general idea and why it's best to use both if you are going to go this route!

In some respects, it's the same logic behind using HGH post workout. The traumatized muscle will be more receptive to the igf etc that the HGH induces during that time. It's just about striking while the iron is hot in a sense.

If anyone has any experience with GHRP-6 or anything like that, I'd love to hear more about it. From what I can tell, a protocol of GHRP-6 with modified GRF (1-29) in proper doses and shot 3 x day mimics the intake of HGH at 4-5 iu per day. But, it is said that results come quicker and you are stimulating your natural GH. The downside is that it costs the same as using 4-5 iu of GH when used at optimum doses. Still, for those who don't want to order a big pile of vials from China (looks bad to LE!) this may be an option.

[hilly]

ive used the ghrp6 6 at 100-200mcg 3 x per day. kept me nice and full and suprising injury/niggle free. also the apetite increase was great when bulking and trying to oush the cals up. helped me stay pretty lean. i will be using it during my pct once growth runs out as its cheap as chips.

i did add the grf/cjc in but gained around 8lb of water in a week so stoped straight away

[jacshelb]

Thanks for the info. I'm thinking of going this route in the future. GHRP-6 and -2 are both nice and cheap. I may try the cjc and play with the dose to minimize water retention, but yeah, that's a lot of water really quick! Doesn't sound fun or good for summer look on the beach!

[Defense]

Great post Jacshelb. I'm actually putting together something similiar for myself. I have been clean for 6 years and now I'm older and wiser. Back in my 20's I would run test and d-bol cycles, blow up to 240 and lose everything once I came off because diet was shit and had no proper pct.

This time I'm running test at 400 mgs and deca at 200 mgs for 10 weeks. I'm running Epistane for the first 5 weeks as I always wanted to try this supplement. I'm 205 about 11-12%. HCG will be used throughout to keep natural test production going and will continue for 3 weeks after last shot. Then I'm going to follow Heavy Iron's PCT but add Sarms and X-Lean (which is a cortisol supplement). I'm also using BCAA's creatine and glutamine throughout as well.

I'm relying primarily on diet (which is pinpoint) and my training. I started training DC a couple of months ago and I love it. I have been out of the gym since 2004 and recently returned. The diet and training have really enabled me to make some good progress. My goal at the end of this cycle is 210 around 8%.

Over the years I relied too much on juice and not enough on diet and training. Now I really think my goals and plans are well thoughout.

[jacshelb]

Great post Jacshelb. I'm actually putting together something similiar for myself. I have been clean for 6 years and now I'm older and wiser. Back in my 20's I would run test and d-bol cycles, blow up to 240 and lose everything once I came off because diet was shit and had no proper pct.

This time I'm running test at 400 mgs and deca at 200 mgs for 10 weeks. I'm running Epistane for the first 5 weeks as I always wanted to try this supplement. I'm 205 about 11-12%. HCG will be used throughout to keep natural test production going and will continue for 3 weeks after last shot. Then I'm going to follow Heavy Iron's PCT but add Sarms and X-Lean (which is a cortisol supplement). I'm also using BCAA's creatine and glutamine throughout as well.

I'm relying primarily on diet (which is pinpoint) and my training. I started training DC a couple of months ago and I love it. I have been out of the gym since 2004 and recently returned. The diet and training have really enabled me to make some good progress. My goal at the end of this cycle is 210 around 8%.

Over the years I relied too much on juice and not enough on diet and training. Now I really think my goals and plans are well thoughout.

That's really great to hear! Sounds like you've got a solid/smart plan. You won't regret the sarms, believe me. Just keep the dose low enough to avoid eye sides and you're gonna love the gains you keep while using it. Especially if your diet is on track etc.

I'll fully admit that even now I am relying too heavily on the drugs. But, at the same point, it's my specific area of interest and I'm exploring it. I think the fascinating thing for me is really learning about all of it and putting something together that works and is relatively safe. I may, in the future go to test only cycles (well with gh peps, humalog etc.). But, at the same time, lowish doses of deca or tren (like 250 or less per week) shouldn't be a terrible thing. I'm thinking of never touching an oral again and staying away from high doses of tren or deca etc etc. My blood pressure gets too high and I don't need the heart trouble down the road!

Again, I think you are right on in your approach and it should work well for you!

Right now what I'm doing looks like this (just for whatever it's worth and to have it in front of me):

Test prop- 200 mg/week
Test cyp- 500 mg/week
Tren enth- 250 mg/week
GH- 5 iu pre-workout 3 x week (till peps arrive this is what I'm doing)
Humalog- 6+ iu pre workout with shake 3 x week
Aromasin- 12.5 mg daily

Calories- aprox 4000 per day

So far I'm up 13 lbs or more in just over a week due to carb, water rebound post dieting. I'm taking a bit of a mental break from diligence at the moment, so diet isn't perfect. But, it's in check and training is hard and effective (like my cock.. sorry couldn't resist).

[Cooker]

I'm taking a bit of a mental break from diligence at the moment, so diet isn't perfect.

I like this comment.

I agree the hardest part of the diet sometimes is not the lack of satiety or the monotonus food choices, but the strain placed on us mentally in sticking to the diet and the disappointment when we "fall off the wagon".