Competing naturally when you're not.

[John Romano]

This I agree with, but there is such thing as breaking the rules - taking something thats specifically listed as a banned substance.

Is this really as common as people are claiming in orgs like the INBF, NGA, etc???

Rules, shmools!! Everyone breaks the rules. Winning is everything. No one will admit they are breaking them, but everyone does!

[Chris Pearce]

LOL... guys, come on. There is no such thing as "natural!!!"

Jon, what do you think breaks the rules of being "natural"?

I'm not trying to be the "holier than thou" natural BBer (because I think that's annoying as shit) but the only thing I take is creatine, BCAAs, whey protein, and a NO supplement.

That's all I've ever taken. In your opinion, does NO disqualify someone as "natural" in your eyes?

[John Romano]

Jon, what do you think breaks the rules of being "natural"?

I'm not trying to be the "holier than thou" natural BBer (because I think that's annoying as shit) but the only thing I take is creatine, BCAAs, whey protein, and a NO supplement.

That's all I've ever taken. In your opinion, does NO disqualify someone as "natural" in your eyes?

Breaking the rules is breaking the rules. If you use something on the "banned list" then you're breaking the rules. That's on one hand. On the other hand, any manufactured substance is not natural in the literal sense. Taking anything other than food is not "natural." For that matter, either is eating 20 chicken breasts a day. Training in the gym isn't "natural" either. If anyone bends the confines of what is found in nature, then where do you draw the line? If BCAAs are ok then why not Tribulus? And if that's okay, then why not 19 nor andro? and if that's okay, then why not 6 OXO? And if that's okay then why not just use juice? Some guys think if they only use "legal" substances then they are "natural." Others think that if they only use things not on their banned list then they are natural. Guys like you think that if they only use creatine, BCAAs, whey protein, and a NO supplements they are natural. Bottom line is no one agrees. That being the case, if you define "natural" as anything occurring in nature, then you can't use anything but "natural" quantities of food. And, really, technically, you have to forego weight training and swing from a tree.

[ob205]

What's worse than crystal clear AAS users in untested shows are the promoters hiring pros (who clearly use AAS) to guest pose. Isn't that a little contradictory? What kind of message does that send to the competitors?...

"This is a natural show, but hey, look, we hired one of the biggest pros on the planet who has tons of gear flowing through their veins"...

this is great, the hypocrisy is amazing. they are saying "hey we believe in natural, unfortunately all naturals look like shit compared to these using guys, so we'll have them guest pose since we have no one worthwhile in the natural organizations."

I agree with John to a point, how about we define natural as using any substance that is derived from food only. So you could have your BCAA's, protein powders, creatine, etc.

I do believe there are plenty of "natural bb's" who feel they don't use steroids, but GH, pro-hormones, insulin, clen, and diuretics are ok.

[data]

I would define a natural athlete as someone who tests clean the day of the show.

[FLEXR6]

Jon, what do you think breaks the rules of being "natural"?

I'm not trying to be the "holier than thou" natural BBer (because I think that's annoying as shit) but the only thing I take is creatine, BCAAs, whey protein, and a NO supplement.

That's all I've ever taken. In your opinion, does NO disqualify someone as "natural" in your eyes?

Chris
I take the same things as you, plus Glutamine. Obviously you have trained extremely hard because you look shitloads better than I do - which is great because it gives me something to aim for

[FLEXR6]

Breaking the rules is breaking the rules. If you use something on the "banned list" then you're breaking the rules. That's on one hand. On the other hand, any manufactured substance is not natural in the literal sense. Taking anything other than food is not "natural." For that matter, either is eating 20 chicken breasts a day. Training in the gym isn't "natural" either. If anyone bends the confines of what is found in nature, then where do you draw the line? If BCAAs are ok then why not Tribulus? And if that's okay, then why not 19 nor andro? and if that's okay, then why not 6 OXO? And if that's okay then why not just use juice? Some guys think if they only use "legal" substances then they are "natural." Others think that if they only use things not on their banned list then they are natural. Guys like you think that if they only use creatine, BCAAs, whey protein, and a NO supplements they are natural. Bottom line is no one agrees. That being the case, if you define "natural" as anything occurring in nature, then you can't use anything but "natural" quantities of food. And, really, technically, you have to forego weight training and swing from a tree.

John
That is the rule of thumb that I use - If they say "don't take this if you want to compete in our federation" - then I don't take it.
I respect all bodybuilders because we all want to get bigger (and some of us leaner) at the end of the day.

[eggwhite]

John,
Why do you say there is no such thing as natural? What do you mean exactly?
Thanx

[Growin24/7]

i totally understand and agree with john and a few others but with that said, if the rules are not to take blah blah blah and u take blah blah blah then u cheat the rules...that simple.

[Kyle Witherspoon]

LOL... guys, come on. There is no such thing as "natural!!!"

LOL yeah what he said!!!!

[OoFaP]

Jon, what do you think breaks the rules of being "natural"?

I'm not trying to be the "holier than thou" natural BBer (because I think that's annoying as shit) but the only thing I take is creatine, BCAAs, whey protein, and a NO supplement.

That's all I've ever taken. In your opinion, does NO disqualify someone as "natural" in your eyes?

I'm like you...only I don't take creatine or the NO. Natural to me means no hormonal products.

I'm not sure whether I should be upset that everyone I'll be going up against is on something or use it as motivation to beat them being clean. I think people here are over exaggerating how many guys use in natural organizations though. I did my first show in the INBF and I'd say just about everyone was clean. Only 2 guys beat me in the show and I have no doubt they were clean. I think the drug issue is more common among the top guys but not so much amateurs competing in natural shows.

[Triple-H_2005]

When I lived in VaB, I watched a guy that is now a WNBF Pro take a shot of test cyp...that pretty much ended what little nativity that remained in me with regard to "Natural" federations.


Combine that with the (almost) certainty that if you know the day you're being "tested" it takes a careless, retarted monkey to fail the test and I have little to no faith in the word of most people in that boat.

[retwa]

I don't see any moral or ethical difference between consuming a high protein diet and injecting steroids. Both of these things are essentially altering your biochemistry in order to achieve the goal of increased muscle mass, decreased fat, and greater physical strength. The only real difference between using food, creatine, or AAS for that matter, to achieve this end, has to do with the arbitrary opinions and rules of others...laws, tested competitions, etc.

The word "natural" on its own means nothing to me. Everything is natural because humans are a part of nature, and therefore so is what we create. Testosterone is much more "natural" for the human body than something like ATD, yet one is illegal and looked down upon, while the other one isn't (as of now).

I think in serious competition, all is fair game. You can bet many tested athletes are using stuff, so if you really want to win, you better use it too. The only real issue is how to do it and not get caught. And if you don't like this reality, then don't compete, or don't expect to be the best.

[HammerStrength12]

Oh and in case you wanted to know what she was ordering her order was

Melonotan ll
Anavar
Primo
Sustanon
Glucophage

LMAO at natural figure competitors on test. I didn't even think NPC figure girls took that stuff.

So are the natural bikini girls toning it down a notch by only taking that stack minus the sust?

And what about the nautral male best body contestants? Are they injecting hudnreds of milligrams of natural trenbolone?

[HammerStrength12]

I don't see any moral or ethical difference between consuming a high protein diet and injecting steroids. Both of these things are essentially altering your own biochemistry in order to achieve the goal of increased muscle mass, decreased fat, and greater physical strength. The only real difference between using food, creatine, or AAS for that matter, to achieve this end, has to do with the arbitrary opinions and rules of others...laws, tested competitions, etc.

The word "natural" on its own means nothing to me. Everything is natural because humans are a part of nature, and therefore so is what we create. Testosterone is much more "natural" for the human body than something like ATD, yet one is illegal and looked down upon, while the other one isn't (as of now).

I think in serious competition, all is fair game. You can bet many tested athletes are using stuff, so if you really want to win, you better use it too. The only real issue is how to do it and not get caught. And if you don't like this reality, then don't compete, or don't expect to be the best.

ATD and 6-Bromo are the only things I've taken that any org would ban (for a combined total of 1.5 months almost 6 months ago) and I decided not to enter my local competition because those things are banned.