BULKING: More important: Carbs vs. Fats?

[TooPowerful4u]

Everyone seems to have different opinions and different reasoning behind doing what they do. Jay Cutler takes in roughly 1000g carbs per day in the offseason to bulk and relatively low fat in comparison. Then you have people like Evan Centopani, who while has somewhat high carbs, is def. a high fat guy offseason.

Which macro (if you had to pick) would be superior for, along with high protein, bulking?

My personal understanding that the only purpose of carbs is to load up glycogen and keep the muscles full and hydrated for workouts and recovery purposes. If there is enough fats in the diet, carbs will be spared and a shitload of them wouldn't be necessary to attain this goal.

Now fat, i don't believe, have much to do with fullness and fueling workouts (other than allowing carbs to be spared and do that job). I do know they are vital in maximal testosterone production, but for enhanced athletes this does not matter. Does certain fats play a vital role in cellular repair within the body?

Hopefully Dave can throw something at the fat spot, since hes the fat expert

[Nic Brunicardi]

There's not much science behind my contribution to this thread, but my reply would be, that I tend to keep my carbs moderate (at least for the majority of the day), and up the fats. I'd might increase the carbs in my meal prior to training to get a spike going, but other than that I don't feel carbs do much else than get me fat and bloated.

[powergraham]

My personal opinion is that most people don't include enough fats in their diets. Your body will use carbs and fats in aerobic energy production, which could be anything from sleeping to a good speed jog, but the ratio changes around.

I've been told that fats are utilised for energy the most during sleep, but the amount of calories you burn is insignificant to what you burn with a good aerobic workout, so you will burn more fats during an aerobic workout, whilst also utlising a lot more carbs. Depending on who you are and what you do, that can be very useful.

Fats are also utilised in protein metabolism, which is why I think alot of people do really well when they start a keto diet, because there intake of good fats just hasn't been high enough before, and their bodies respond really well. I started to stall on keto after around 5 months, but that was dieting pretty much all the way through.

As you said, carbs are stored as glycogen, in the muscles and liver, giving the muscles a full look. But as Dave has said before, fats are important for that too, because your cell membranes are made from fats. So, to get your cells bigger, more fats.

Honestly, there even to me. They both have their pro's and con's. But, what I do advise is that if you are having a bit of a stall on your diet, and you've got adequate protein and a good amount of carbs, don't put in more carbs, up your fats first. Again, everyone's bodies are different, and will react in different ways.

[TooPowerful4u]

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my personal opinion is that most people don't include enough fats in their diets. Your body will use carbs and fats in aerobic energy production, which could be anything from sleeping to a good speed jog, but the ratio changes around.

correct. The higher the intensity the further the ration shirts from fats to carbs. Carbs are switched over to and burned during anaerobic activity.

I've been told that fats are utilised for energy the most during sleep, but the amount of calories you burn is insignificant to what you burn with a good aerobic workout, so you will burn more fats during an aerobic workout, whilst also utlising a lot more carbs. Depending on who you are and what you do, that can be very useful.

you mean anaerobic, but are correct. It is something like this.....

Fast walk (aerobic) = 400 calories burned at 85% fat, 15% carbs. Fat cals burned = 340

same duration but vastly increased intensity (anaerobic) with maybe a job/run or fast pace eliptical = 800 calories burned @ 50% fat, 50% carbs = 400 fat cals burned. not only did it burn more fat cals, but has much more metabolic carry over throughout the day. Metabolism is increased and at rest body prefers fat, so more fat cals will be burned for duration of the day. This can also be catabolic, though, depending on the duration and if you had an empty stomach.

Option 3 (my choice)- i prefer hiit. You can figure 1/3 of your time is anaerobic @ 50/50. The rest 2/3 is aerobic at 85/15. Difference is during the aerobic time your heart rate is still flying as well as body temperature increasing the calories being burned up at that time. Not only that, but it also has strong metabolic carry over throughout the rest of the day.

fats are also utilised in protein metabolism, which is why i think alot of people do really well when they start a keto diet, because there intake of good fats just hasn't been high enough before, and their bodies respond really well. I started to stall on keto after around 5 months, but that was dieting pretty much all the way through.

how do they help in protein metabolism? Sincere question trying to learn....

as you said, carbs are stored as glycogen, in the muscles and liver, giving the muscles a full look. But as dave has said before, fats are important for that too, because your cell membranes are made from fats. So, to get your cells bigger, more fats.

Honestly, there even to me. They both have their pro's and con's. But, what i do advise is that if you are having a bit of a stall on your diet, and you've got adequate protein and a good amount of carbs, don't put in more carbs, up your fats first. Again, everyone's bodies are different, and will react in different ways.

[D_T]

Carbs taste good.

[TooPowerful4u]

Carbs taste good.

thanx 4 the input

[powergraham]

...

I'm a freshly qualified PT, and I've just learnt alot of this stuff. You know when you know something but you can't remember how to back it up ?

Currently where I'm at with the fats/protein. I'll look it up and get back to you.

[Scoobysnacks]

you need both. But I prefer a higher fat intake with say moderate carb intake. The higher the fats I find Im extremely strong, and as long as I get enough carbs I have high energy to train. I get the best pumps and fullest look when fats are pretty high and carbs are moderate to high in a bulk. Course what moderate to high will be diff for each person.

Ss

[TooPowerful4u]

you need both. But I prefer a higher fat intake with say moderate carb intake. The higher the fats I find Im extremely strong, and as long as I get enough carbs I have high energy to train. I get the best pumps and fullest look when fats are pretty high and carbs are moderate to high in a bulk. Course what moderate to high will be diff for each person.

Ss

Same. Iv always been a mesomorph so i figured it was somewhere along the lines of being able to load carbs pretty easily (like an endo) along with the fact that the fat spares them. This is probably one reason i shouldnt go nuts on carb loads for shows like i always do lol........

And i tried a keto diet for 2wks last yr during my prep and my strength was CRAZY. I couldnt believe it. I mind fucked myself into believing i was flat tho, so i stopped it quick.

[powergraham]

Same. Iv always been a mesomorph so i figured it was somewhere along the lines of being able to load carbs pretty easily (like an endo) along with the fact that the fat spares them. This is probably one reason i shouldnt go nuts on carb loads for shows like i always do lol........

And i tried a keto diet for 2wks last yr during my prep and my strength was CRAZY. I couldnt believe it. I mind fucked myself into believing i was flat tho, so i stopped it quick.

I got that. I'm by no means lean like you two guys, I'm still overweight, still dieting, but I can still see and feel when I'm flat, and keto does that to you. It's hard to get past that mental barrier. At the moment I'm doing low carbs, moderate fats, probably not keto, but alot more aerobic activity, and I'm feeling (and looking better than ever). Gona make a thread to show off when I finish dieting lol.

For me, I feel like crap if I eat too many carbs, and not even a high amount. My body just works much, much better with fats. Again, there are people who take on 800g of carbs like childs play. If I did that I'd be holding so much water, and I wouldn't want to move.

Ss, do you know about the fat/protein metabolism (possibly synthesis) link ? I can't for the world of me find it at the moment.

[JuanDiesel]

I been following a moderate carb about 200- 250 a day on my precontest diet and fats around 160 a day protein about 450- 500 and i must say that i believe whats most important is fat and protein and carbs as needed... my last 2 meals are based on protein and fats and there has been occasions when i just had the protein because i was full and didn't feel like eating anymore(i'm eating 8 meals a day) so i skipped the fats let me tell you i learned my lesson not to try and skip anything i felt like shit the next day, also for some reason the fats help me sleep better.. I'm just going on what i think on behalf on how i feel on the diet.... i work with Dave and he has me a firm believer on protein and fats been working with him now since 2007 and together we have achieved more than 40 pounds of muscle on my body, He knows his stuff..

[huge285]

FAT is a component of muscle tissue..............CARBS is not!

[TooPowerful4u]

FAT is a component of muscle tissue..............CARBS is not!

Yes, but just how much is needed and which types? What exact component?

[Scoobysnacks]

Same. Iv always been a mesomorph so i figured it was somewhere along the lines of being able to load carbs pretty easily (like an endo) along with the fact that the fat spares them. This is probably one reason i shouldnt go nuts on carb loads for shows like i always do lol........

And i tried a keto diet for 2wks last yr during my prep and my strength was CRAZY. I couldnt believe it. I mind fucked myself into believing i was flat tho, so i stopped it quick.

Im runing keto right now and very strong, then I do a 1300 carb refeed once per week all day long with high glycemic carbs, like pancakes, bagels, kids cereal, working like a charm.

[UriahMcGee]

Im runing keto right now and very strong, then I do a 1300 carb refeed once per week all day long with high glycemic carbs, like pancakes, bagels, kids cereal, working like a charm.

that must be nice lol