Bikini Division substances?

[melanwine]

Any idea IF and what the women in the Bikini Division are using to maintain their perfect amount of muscular definition when trimming-down body fat?

I've experienced a loss of muscle mass (what very little I naturally gain) when increasing cardio to cut body-fat and have always wondered what I could possibly take to both maintain AND boost muscle gains. Although I lift weights and have a good structure, when I want to drop body-fat I just end-up skinny..

I've never used "supplements" before but am open to it. Just protein powder, multivitamins and occasionally fat-burners (again, they end-up burning up my muscle!) are what I've previously used.

Any suggestions from those of you who know?

[Jodie]

Bikini doesn 't really have any significant amount of muscle. I would seriously think AAS would be the last thing needed for someone doing bikini.

Adjust your diet to include more protein to keep what you have.

[s2h]

some t3/clen and some mild diuretic use...

[sassy69]

Hmmm... knew this was coming..

IMO its inevitable that Bikini competitors will continue the use of AAS & ancillaries as part of competition in the following ways:

1) get a minimal base of muscle to work with
2) to cut up (i.e. fit estrogen)
3) maintain (i.e. not go catabolic) the same "look" for an extended competition season of several (read up to 6-8??) shows / year and no "off-season"

Bear w/ me while I get on my soapbox for a minute... Bikini has incredibly low barriers to entry and encourages women to get on stage w/ an immediacy - i.e. the prep and view of competitoin lifespan is on the order of months or weeks instead of years. For BB you need a minimum of 2 solid years of lifting to develop a decent base of muscle and then time for muscle maturity to come into play in order to compete w/ reasonable results. This focus on the very short view / timeframe and also the view that it is about the competition and not the time spent prepping, expect competitors to make doing multiple shows in a season, the norm. Its not really that hard to prep for a Bikini show, but repeated preps and dieting, and possibly repeated use of water cutting / diuretics will start to take its toll on the body, and show in reduced quality of health, fullness, quality of sleep / recovery and potential catabolism (i.e. start getting skinny or skinnyfat).

To this end my primary recommendation is going to be that Bikini competitors, even beginners who just want to get on stage, is to step back and take the long view. Don't focus on how many shows you're going to do back to back, but rather spend your time up front developing the physique you want to bring to stage. If you don't have enough muscle mass (face it - most girls / women who aren't athletes, simply don't have a lot of muscle mass because they never spent time focusing on it), then spend the time - take a year and get on a hypertrophy program. Don't immediately start running around looking for AAS because your coach / bf / hubby / some guy at the gym who uses, told you "just get some winny or var - it will lean you out & tone you up". That's the quicky fix / easy way /short-sheeting yourself. If you don't have any muscle mass to begin w/, throwing in steroids w/o an already functioning and results-producing (read: its going to take more than 2 weeks to develop and maintain some muscle mass) diet & training program, you are just begging to fuck yourself up. THe guy suggesting this protocol probably already has a regular commitment to the gym & dieting. If your'e just getting into it, you have no idea about consistency, commitment (read: more than just a couple months of consistently going to the gym and you decided you LOVE IT and you'll do it forever -- nope... you might do it for 6 months & then get bored w/ it), and frankly, very simply how to train & diet and understand how exercise and nutrition work and how your body responds to it. THere's a whole other set of hormone-dependent issues that YOU (not your coach / bf / hubby/ some guy at the gym) need to understand, YOU need to be responsible for owning (both results & sides - YOUR body, YOUR results, YOUR sides - not your coach's / bf's / hubby's / some guy at the gym's) so YOU can make a responsible and informed decision about self-medicating w/ (mostly) controlled or prescription substances (usually from other than pharma-grade sources).

Stepping off that soapbox - do I think Bikini competitors are justified in using AAS to maintain muscle mass across several shows? Hey I don't care what you put in your body (I only care that you're intelligent, informed and responsible about it - but its still YOUR body, YOUR results, YOUR sides - doesn't affect my day if you develop a yeast infection or your hair falls out from a var cycle ). But I think, frankly its silly for a Bikini competitor to feel she needs to go that route. IMO Bikini was developed partially (primarily) to get more women involved in physique competition (read; bring in more revenue for the federation) and partially to help move away from the focus on steroid use. But given that most newb Bikini competitors are getting help from people who have been in the industry and are aware of all the tips, tricks and "tools" of the trade, these are the people who will start suggesting that said newb Bikini competitor could or should use a little of this or that to get a leg up on the competition. THe reality is that most (NPC) shows are not tested, so it is completely w/in the bounds of the show requirements (not getting into the discussion of people "cheating" by using AAS in tested shows or natty federations - IMO that's an integrity and sportsmanship issue and speaks volumes about the person competing...). HOWEVER, I dont' feel its necessary if the Bikini competitor takes the long view on her prep and her recovery time, doesn't fixate on "doing shows" and rather focuses on the physique development process, puts in the time and energy to develop a good base of muscle and learn how to manipulate a physique via diet & training.

THat said (i.e. if you read thru my post this far), IMO the ONLY thing that should be considered reasonable for a Bikini competitor who is fixated on doing a shitload of shows back to back and doesn't have a solid background in lifting already, anavar is it. YOu can search the Fem Chem forum and this whole site (use the search button) for info on a beginner var cycle. Some GH helps w/ maintenance and possibly some clen / t3 if cutting is an issue. Nolvadex is the only available SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulator) that will operate on the ovarian estrogen cycle (noting that it is mostly pre-menopausal women competing - and it seems the younger you are, the more estrogen is going to be a challenge for you). But again, do your research - just because you heard about any of these from this thread or your coach / bf/ hubby / some guy at the gym doesn't mean its for you. DO YOUR RESEARCH AND MAKE AN INFORMED, RESPONSIBLE decision.

But this is not what I'd recommend as I think w/ the low barriers to entry and judging criteria for this category, it is better to spend some time doing a legitimate build phase and then a legitmate cut phase - learning how to diet down and manage your estrogen- issues (which affect most women - you're not just a poor victim of shitty genetics and oh woe is you cuz you can't lose weight and thus are justified in usign a shitload of steroids to "lean out & tone up" because you can't do it yourself in 2 weeks or less... sorry ...sarcasm... )

[Suzanne]

shouldn't neeed a damn thing!

i know people who look like this every day of their lives just normal people who workout and eat right
it is a year round maintainable look

wtf are people looking to drugs for this!

[s2h]

i am around multiple bikini gals...i dont know of any that are using AAS..but i'm sure there are some that do...a good point by sassy on multipe shows and the strain any drug use can take on a person..alot of these bikini girls do shows weekend after weekend...not just npc stuff...the real money if there good is in beach and bar shows..i know a certain gal that was making 2-3k a month doing these type of shows..she used no ped's at all..just had the look..but she did train 5 days a week..cardio and resistance training...and kept a very strict diet...so to say they just walk on stage with no prep would not be accurate in some cases...

[sassy69]

shouldn't neeed a damn thing!

i know people who look like this every day of their lives just normal people who workout and eat right
it is a year round maintainable look

wtf are people looking to drugs for this!

And this is exactly IMO what Bikini is trying to promote, but I guarantee you that there will be use. How many times have you heard "I'll do whatever it takes" in this sport?

Nobody wants to look like an FBB but everyone wants to use the same tools to shortcut the REAL work.

[sassy69]

COntinuing the thought about using AAS to maintain for multiple competitions - keep in mind ain't nuttin for free. YOu'd be getting some support in terms of catabolism & recovery but its still a steroid and it is still your own personal chemsitry experiment to discover (and be responsible for ) the results and the sides that YOUR body will experience when responding to whatever compound(s) your'e throwing in there. Among the things that could be a negative factor in going this route to maintain, including the usual sides of any AAS (keep in mind there's no such thing as an AAS w/ NO sides):

- acne
- hairloss
- water retention
- random bloody nose
- interrupted menstrual cycle (amenorrhea)
- yeast infections
- raised cholesterol

And ironically, you might actually find yourself getting too muscular for Bikini - keep in mind that Bikini is really focused on and geared towards the girls who dont' have a lot of lifting background - i.e. no muscle base & no muscle maturity. Therefore, it would seem that it is an entry level category, and over time. if you choose to continue the lifting lifestyle, by definition, you will be building a muscle base and muscle maturity. THrow in some steroids, which promote lean muscle mass... don't be surprised if you ... OMG... get bigger.

[blondie_bombshell]

I wouldnt use any AAS, you dont need it for bikini.

[s2h]

COntinuing the thought about using AAS to maintain for multiple competitions - keep in mind ain't nuttin for free. YOu'd be getting some support in terms of catabolism & recovery but its still a steroid and it is still your own personal chemsitry experiment to discover (and be responsible for ) the results and the sides that YOUR body will experience when responding to whatever compound(s) your'e throwing in there. Among the things that could be a negative factor in going this route to maintain, including the usual sides of any AAS (keep in mind there's no such thing as an AAS w/ NO sides):

- acne
- hairloss
- water retention
- random bloody nose
- interrupted menstrual cycle (amenorrhea)
- yeast infections
- raised cholesterol

And ironically, you might actually find yourself getting too muscular for Bikini - keep in mind that Bikini is really focused on and geared towards the girls who dont' have a lot of lifting background - i.e. no muscle base & no muscle maturity. Therefore, it would seem that it is an entry level category, and over time. if you choose to continue the lifting lifestyle, by definition, you will be building a muscle base and muscle maturity. THrow in some steroids, which promote lean muscle mass... don't be surprised if you ... OMG... get bigger.

AAS use would most defintly push most girls out of the bikini look and cause the sides listed above...the use of diuretics and AI/serm would be my great concern doing show after show...

[sassy69]

AAS use would most defintly push most girls out of the bikini look and cause the sides listed above...the use of diuretics and AI/serm would be my great concern doing show after show...

Very good point - these are all for short-term manipulation and all involve some sort of expected rebound, and I suspect further, repeated use of them over short period of time reduces their effectiveness and introduces problems.

[s2h]

Very good point - these are all for short-term manipulation and all involve some sort of expected rebound, and I suspect further, repeated use of them over short period of time reduces their effectiveness and introduces problems.

i also see most if not all of these bikini girls have little to no supplement knowledge...there just along for the ride...taking whatever there "guru" trainer tells them.."omg like take half of like one of like those like everyday like cool like"...

[sassy69]

i also see most if not all of these bikini girls have little to no supplement knowledge...there just along for the ride...taking whatever there "guru" trainer tells them.."omg like take half of like one of like those like everyday like cool like"...

IMO this is the most dangerous part of AAS use by women. Uninformed except for what coach / bf / hubby / some guy at the gym "puts them on". Like I said - YOUR body, YOUR results, YOUR sides.

If you want to play on the dark side, have a reason for it - not just "it will lean you out & tone you up". You can't pick and choose the effects you want - you get it all and you better be able to deal w/ it, OR make an informed decision and chances are its NOT what is appropriate for your goals and, in fact, getting back to tweaking your diet & training (and sometimes your expectations) to achieve your goals w/ no additional complications.

So if you exclude my soapbox rant about what is really not necessary, if you choose to go the route of using AAS to help maintain thru several shows in a season, I think its going to blow up in your face if you expect to maintain a static look. Its the natural progression of muscle development if you continue lifting - basically the differentiator between bikini , figure and bodybuilding is the time spent development. If you find you really like lifting and just got into it, Bikini is great for a year or two, but as a result of the lifting, you'll continue to grow muscle. Shit, my sister-in-law, who is skinny as hell, took up kickboxing classes last year, and she was just complaining that her quads have grown as a result and she needs to get her pants altered to fit. If you do anything physical for a period of time, you will start to develop lean muscle mass. Its not like you "skip" muscle maturity, just as you can't skip aging. Unless you do enough cardio to remain catabolic - which just seems like a waste of time - to remain the same state for the duration .. it just seems weird to me.

[kimm4]

Everyone made some great points, so please read this thread over and over before you make any kind of drastic decisions.

If you're worried about losing muscle, then keep your focus on lifting heavy and cut back on some of your cardio.

Losing fat always goes back to your diet (not cardio) so let your diet do the work for you.

[GirlyMuscle]

Bikini shouldn't be worried about losing muscle since they aren't supposed to have any anyway.