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  1. #31
    Super Moderator sassy69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kentuckyslim View Post
    I applaud this girl's balls for even asking her question publicly on the board - she's asking IF girls in bikini division are using, which I imagine some are, just no one is talking about it. The knee-jerk reaction from everyone here is "What? That's ridiculous! Harumph harumph!"

    I don't think she's suggesting that every girl who has been working out for 6 months and puts on a bikini to get on stage should do AAS. But what IF a girl trains hard and for a few years, eats a ton, and still the repeated shows and constant dieting eat what gains she's made in the gym?

    I agree that figure competitors who switch over have a leg up on the competition already, whether they have done AAS or not. Hell, the first Ms. Bikini O is a former figure competitor, so don't try to tell me muscle has no place in the bikini division. The squishy supermodel look rewarded only a year ago is already OUT, which I hear everyone applauding, but no one seems to want to acknowledge that with the hardening of bikini physiques across the division that AAS use may become more common.

    The condescension is what gets me. The fact that FBBers and figure competitors can talk openly and freely about the AAS they use here while a girl who asks about bikini division substances has to feel chastised for seeking a supposed "quick-fix", is just backward and hypocritical to me.

    Kudos to melanwine for even asking. Better you ask and educate yourself than to keep quiet and leave yourself open to errors in decision-making later.
    Here again we're dealing w/ a discussion that goes between broad generalizations and specific situations - I know several women who are just plain old hard gainers. I know huge numbers of guys who are hard gainers and lose muscle left & right if they don't pound huge amounts of food. So I think the takeaway from this whole discussion is that:

    1) AAS, esp for women is still taboo -for a hundred different reasons (that's a different thread altogether)

    2) Do people in Hawaiian Tropic Bikini contests use AAS? Probably not. They also probably don't have a pump up area and do a week of water manipulation before a show. These are things that came from the already existing context of an NPC (for example) BB competition. So by extension, its to be expected that ALL the things that are part of BB are going to leak down to the lower categories (or 'less extreme').

    3) As I've stated all over these boards, the primary difference between BB & Bikini is generally the years spent lifting to establish the muscle base, the muscle maturity, experience training methodologies and learning how your body responds and the discipline / lifestyle - the things that only come with time on the order of years. But to your point exactly, everyone comes from a different background when they step on stage so its not fair to state across the board that this or that is not necessary - but I'd venture that generally speaking, NO bikini competitors should not be using AAS as they are, generally speaking, coming from no or little background in training. Its just not necessary in the big picture - all of what you're talking about can be achieved if you spend the time working w/ different diets & methodologies to see what you respond to - and again , just plain old time spent. Not everything should be achievable w/in 6 months - it might take longer to dial in your particular body - your body can only work as fast as it can work and forcing it w/ chemistry before you've given it a reasonable amount of time to accomplish this (not what you think is reasonable as most people get impatient). IMO w/ the internet and what is seen as immediately achievable results and very short time-frame expectations, much of the lifestyle - the hours of time spent on your own in the gym, getting up at 5 am for cardio, eating the same shit out of the same tupperware and just sitting back and observing the results and learning from it all, is lost. (Again, stepping back off my soapbox.)

    4) It is still always YOUR decision to pursue any route towards your goal - as Sally notes - this forum is here to help educate and give advice that is most likely based on experience or observation as opposed to emotion or pulled out of one's ass - i.e. everyone always starts out w/ the same set of questions so the answers to those questions have been arrived at from one's own research and the collective experience of those in the sport. So many women will start out their exposure to AAS by their bf/ hubby/coach / some guy at the gym telling them that "a little of this" will achieve lean you out / tone y ou up / build you up quickly / etc. Most guys (not all) are coming from a gym lifestyle so they have the base of muscle buildling & experience & discipline already in place (its seen as 'masculine' and acceptable for guys to do that - not women ) so they have the 'prerequisite' of the discipline, experience, years spent, but also a pretty wide forum to draw their information from - i.e. men talk all day long very openly about a whole range of drug stuff on the internet, in the locker room, etc. But women aren't supposed to do that, and certainly the medical community won't touch it or can't get funding for AAS / women research - so there's nothing to start with except talking to people and some tidbits of info here & there. The goal would be to encourage women to do their own research (not rely on bf / hubby / coach / guy at the gym becaues "they'd never do somethign to hurt me " - best intentions and ignorance are a dangerious combination), ask questions and make an informed decision as to whether or not they are willing to take ownership & responsiblity of self-medicating w/ controlled substances and is that route appropriate for their goals. Both of those are the bottom line.
    "The only way you can hurt the body is not use it. Inactivity is the killer and, remember, it's never too late."
    ~Jack Lalanne



  2. #32
    Super Moderator sassy69's Avatar
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    BTW kyslim - I respect and applaud your input to these discussions. I hate that so many figure competitors, and I'm sure Bikini, rely only on bf/hubby/coach/some guy at the gym for their cycle info and blindly take whatever they are "put" on because they will "do whatever it takes", except spend the time to do it the right way vs the suggested / quicky / naive way.

    Knowledge is power ladies. Guys don't know everything and even the most informed & experienced guy can't speak to the effects of AAS on the female hormone profile. We differ in our basic hormone profile, but further, individually differ in our basic body chemistry so there are no guarantees - only ballpark estimates and a few basic bio / chemistry rules to work with. Its a huge amount of first education,then taking an honest look at your goals and evaluate if AAS is the right way or the quicky way where you want to pick & choose your envisioned results (and ignore all the other things that can come w/ AAS) and then if you continue down this path, becoming your own personal chemistry experiment and owning the results (and sides).

    But IMO it all starts w/ not being afraid to ask - if on a forum, via PM or whatever. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask or relying on someone else to do the research for you.
    "The only way you can hurt the body is not use it. Inactivity is the killer and, remember, it's never too late."
    ~Jack Lalanne



  3. #33
    OLYMPIAN Ibarramedia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kentuckyslim View Post
    I applaud this girl's balls for even asking her question publicly on the board - she's asking IF girls in bikini division are using, which I imagine some are, just no one is talking about it. The knee-jerk reaction from everyone here is "What? That's ridiculous! Harumph harumph!"

    I don't think she's suggesting that every girl who has been working out for 6 months and puts on a bikini to get on stage should do AAS. But what IF a girl trains hard and for a few years, eats a ton, and still the repeated shows and constant dieting eat what gains she's made in the gym?

    I agree that figure competitors who switch over have a leg up on the competition already, whether they have done AAS or not. Hell, the first Ms. Bikini O is a former figure competitor, so don't try to tell me muscle has no place in the bikini division. The squishy supermodel look rewarded only a year ago is already OUT, which I hear everyone applauding, but no one seems to want to acknowledge that with the hardening of bikini physiques across the division that AAS use may become more common.

    The condescension is what gets me. The fact that FBBers and figure competitors can talk openly and freely about the AAS they use here while a girl who asks about bikini division substances has to feel chastised for seeking a supposed "quick-fix", is just backward and hypocritical to me.

    Kudos to melanwine for even asking. Better you ask and educate yourself than to keep quiet and leave yourself open to errors in decision-making later.
    Quote Originally Posted by sassy69 View Post
    Here again we're dealing w/ a discussion that goes between broad generalizations and specific situations - I know several women who are just plain old hard gainers. I know huge numbers of guys who are hard gainers and lose muscle left & right if they don't pound huge amounts of food. So I think the takeaway from this whole discussion is that:

    1) AAS, esp for women is still taboo -for a hundred different reasons (that's a different thread altogether)

    2) Do people in Hawaiian Tropic Bikini contests use AAS? Probably not. They also probably don't have a pump up area and do a week of water manipulation before a show. These are things that came from the already existing context of an NPC (for example) BB competition. So by extension, its to be expected that ALL the things that are part of BB are going to leak down to the lower categories (or 'less extreme').

    3) As I've stated all over these boards, the primary difference between BB & Bikini is generally the years spent lifting to establish the muscle base, the muscle maturity, experience training methodologies and learning how your body responds and the discipline / lifestyle - the things that only come with time on the order of years. But to your point exactly, everyone comes from a different background when they step on stage so its not fair to state across the board that this or that is not necessary - but I'd venture that generally speaking, NO bikini competitors should not be using AAS as they are, generally speaking, coming from no or little background in training. Its just not necessary in the big picture - all of what you're talking about can be achieved if you spend the time working w/ different diets & methodologies to see what you respond to - and again , just plain old time spent. Not everything should be achievable w/in 6 months - it might take longer to dial in your particular body - your body can only work as fast as it can work and forcing it w/ chemistry before you've given it a reasonable amount of time to accomplish this (not what you think is reasonable as most people get impatient). IMO w/ the internet and what is seen as immediately achievable results and very short time-frame expectations, much of the lifestyle - the hours of time spent on your own in the gym, getting up at 5 am for cardio, eating the same shit out of the same tupperware and just sitting back and observing the results and learning from it all, is lost. (Again, stepping back off my soapbox.)

    4) It is still always YOUR decision to pursue any route towards your goal - as Sally notes - this forum is here to help educate and give advice that is most likely based on experience or observation as opposed to emotion or pulled out of one's ass - i.e. everyone always starts out w/ the same set of questions so the answers to those questions have been arrived at from one's own research and the collective experience of those in the sport. So many women will start out their exposure to AAS by their bf/ hubby/coach / some guy at the gym telling them that "a little of this" will achieve lean you out / tone y ou up / build you up quickly / etc. Most guys (not all) are coming from a gym lifestyle so they have the base of muscle buildling & experience & discipline already in place (its seen as 'masculine' and acceptable for guys to do that - not women ) so they have the 'prerequisite' of the discipline, experience, years spent, but also a pretty wide forum to draw their information from - i.e. men talk all day long very openly about a whole range of drug stuff on the internet, in the locker room, etc. But women aren't supposed to do that, and certainly the medical community won't touch it or can't get funding for AAS / women research - so there's nothing to start with except talking to people and some tidbits of info here & there. The goal would be to encourage women to do their own research (not rely on bf / hubby / coach / guy at the gym becaues "they'd never do somethign to hurt me " - best intentions and ignorance are a dangerious combination), ask questions and make an informed decision as to whether or not they are willing to take ownership & responsiblity of self-medicating w/ controlled substances and is that route appropriate for their goals. Both of those are the bottom line.
    Quote Originally Posted by sassy69 View Post
    BTW kyslim - I respect and applaud your input to these discussions. I hate that so many figure competitors, and I'm sure Bikini, rely only on bf/hubby/coach/some guy at the gym for their cycle info and blindly take whatever they are "put" on because they will "do whatever it takes", except spend the time to do it the right way vs the suggested / quicky / naive way.

    Knowledge is power ladies. Guys don't know everything and even the most informed & experienced guy can't speak to the effects of AAS on the female hormone profile. We differ in our basic hormone profile, but further, individually differ in our basic body chemistry so there are no guarantees - only ballpark estimates and a few basic bio / chemistry rules to work with. Its a huge amount of first education,then taking an honest look at your goals and evaluate if AAS is the right way or the quicky way where you want to pick & choose your envisioned results (and ignore all the other things that can come w/ AAS) and then if you continue down this path, becoming your own personal chemistry experiment and owning the results (and sides).

    But IMO it all starts w/ not being afraid to ask - if on a forum, via PM or whatever. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask or relying on someone else to do the research for you.

    Very good posts. Reps for you Sassy upon recharge.... Already repped Kentuckyslim.
    "Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry" -Dr. David Banner

    “Despite everything, I believe that people are really good at heart” - Anne Frank

  4. #34
    PENCILNECK wooshie13's Avatar
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    Hugs, not drugs, ladies - no matter what your division. Keep it clean, preserve your metabolism and your organs, do it right with hard work, heavy lifting, and lots of food. I always feel like I'm at a disadvantage on stage since I take only fish oil and and an MVI every day. But it is what it is.

  5. #35
    MUSCLEHEAD Amazon Doll's Avatar
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    I'm sure plenty of Bikini girls are "using" Heck, go to any of the BBing boards and you see posts by guys & gals about whet they should use to "tone" up and they post a pic if a 16-20% bf girl with no muscle.

    If these girls are using, I am sure npc bikini girls are!

  6. #36
    STRONGMAN Bryan Hildebrand's Avatar
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    the point being made here is simple; there are girls with less than a years training experience using or asking about anadrol, winny, anavar, GH, peptides etc. put your time in and let time be the deciding factor about your next move.

    sorry for all the editing, this a womens forum. comparing men and women wont be tolerated in this discussion.

  7. #37
    GYM RAT kimm4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kentuckyslim View Post
    I don't think she's suggesting that every girl who has been working out for 6 months and puts on a bikini to get on stage should do AAS. But what IF a girl trains hard and for a few years, eats a ton, and still the repeated shows and constant dieting eat what gains she's made in the gym?
    Building a solid physique will take more then just a few years. It's harder for women to add good quality muscle to their frames. If you choose to compete and diet for constant back to shows, then it's going to be harder to make any kind of decent gains. Bikini is no different from the rest of the divisions. You need to get yourself in a solid off season for building...that's what we all do.

  8. #38
    BARBARIAN BROTHER kentuckyslim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimm4 View Post
    Building a solid physique will take more then just a few years. It's harder for women to add good quality muscle to their frames. If you choose to compete and diet for constant back to shows, then it's going to be harder to make any kind of decent gains. Bikini is no different from the rest of the divisions. You need to get yourself in a solid off season for building...that's what we all do.
    I agree that achieving a solid physique takes years of hard work and dedication. I never would deny that, but certainly where the entry barrier is lower in a division such a bikini, competitors will have invested less training/dieting time than figure/BB'ing competitors before they take their first stage. I'm not suggesting there's some magic number of years spent training that one must complete before it's considered "okay" for a competitor to do AAS.

    My issue is that there is a huge disparity between the advice given on posts by figure and BB'ing competitors pertaining to cycles and this post by a bikini competitor. If this thread had been titled "figure division substances", her post would have been answered with a laundry list of recommendations, and maybe not even a single question raised about the time she's put in.

    In a forum dedicated to educating those who are considering using and helping them weigh the risks, there's a lot of head shaking going on.

  9. #39
    RX MEMBER Jodie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kentuckyslim View Post
    I agree that achieving a solid physique takes years of hard work and dedication. I never would deny that, but certainly where the entry barrier is lower in a division such a bikini, competitors will have invested less training/dieting time than figure/BB'ing competitors before they take their first stage. I'm not suggesting there's some magic number of years spent training that one must complete before it's considered "okay" for a competitor to do AAS.

    My issue is that there is a huge disparity between the advice given on posts by figure and BB'ing competitors pertaining to cycles and this post by a bikini competitor. If this thread had been titled "figure division substances", her post would have been answered with a laundry list of recommendations, and maybe not even a single question raised about the time she's put in.

    In a forum dedicated to educating those who are considering using and helping them weigh the risks, there's a lot of head shaking going on.

    the advice giving in the thread is the same advice most of us would give any FBB, Figure, fitness or bikini person coming in here asking about gear use.

    Alot of us are very admit about girls pushing their own naturally limits before jumping on the gear band wagon. This is usually the reaction that someone gets in this section when they are so new to the sport and think that gear is the cure all on what they should be able to achieve naturally on their own without adding in chems.

    Heading shaking yes....because honeslty its a mute point that bikini girls should need to use anything. If you look at the way the judging is going, they truly are not rewarding girls that have a shit load of muscle or mush of any in bikini or in figure.

    just my 2 cents.

  10. #40
    OLYMPIAN s2h's Avatar
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    the real prob is in society in general....todays mentality is " want it now"...and that holds true in most things...cell phones...internet...nav gps....hell you can order a pizza on-line...society has developed into this...if you have the $$..then you can get what you want now...thats like the gal attilia was refering to i would assume..plenty of $$ and the mentality that she will pay to get what she wants...P.S...of the bikini girls i know none use AAS..but after looking at the houston pro show pics...i will say that there looks to be some in play...my .02....

  11. #41
    RX MEMBER Sledge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s2h View Post
    the real prob is in society in general....todays mentality is " want it now"...and that holds true in most things...cell phones...internet...nav gps....hell you can order a pizza on-line...society has developed into this...if you have the $$..then you can get what you want now...thats like the gal attilia was refering to i would assume..plenty of $$ and the mentality that she will pay to get what she wants...P.S...of the bikini girls i know none use AAS..but after looking at the houston pro show pics...i will say that there looks to be some in play...my .02....

    This is true, so i recommend the bikini girls stick with silicon as their enhancement product of choice.

  12. #42
    BARBARIAN BROTHER kentuckyslim's Avatar
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    I'm not advocating using by any means. Just playing Devil's advocate

  13. #43
    RX MEMBER RealLilSwole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sledge View Post
    This is true, so i recommend the bikini girls stick with silicon as their enhancement product of choice.


    BwahhehahhahahhhahhahhewhaHHWHAHA!! Now that is some funny shit!

  14. #44
    OLYMPIAN Ibarramedia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealLilSwole View Post
    BwahhehahhahahhhahhahhewhaHHWHAHA!! Now that is some funny shit!

    Agreed.
    "Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry" -Dr. David Banner

    “Despite everything, I believe that people are really good at heart” - Anne Frank

  15. #45
    STRONGMAN Bryan Hildebrand's Avatar
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    ^^^schmoe

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