UPDATED 11/9/10 with CRITERIA - Womens Physique Division Answers

**K-Max** · 10-24-2010, 12:26 PM

Yeah, obviously. lol. What I was getting at was that shows for the hardcore crowds into the hardcore look (including for the hardcore men, if it ever does get to that point) could be spun off as a separate brand to be run in specific markets that work and profitable for them.

But, seeing as how the IFBB / NPC are presumably "non-profit", and I'd assume want to remain associated with the IOC (ie: World Games) I doubt this would even work for those interests.

Anyway, just thinking outside the box.

**Curt James** · 10-24-2010, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by SallyAnne

Curt you're getting really creepy.

Well, the intent was sarcasm. I have no schmo army.

Bob has made it clear that marketability and the fact that—from his perspective—female bodybuilders aren't filling these auditoriums on their own and are, in fact, taking money from the pockets of the other divisions.

Satire versus creepy? Your call.

Anyway, it's all about appearance. Chick wants women with "poise" and "beauty" so the money flows into the federation. FBB has no ROI and is therefore a burden which must be eliminated.

That's pretty creepy, too.

**Tre** · 10-24-2010, 12:52 PM

Curt:

While it's true that people do not travel to watch IFBB pro women's bodybuilding, neither do they travel to watch pro women's bikini or pro women's figure and they're not suddenly going to start traveling to watch pro women's physique either.

The difference is that the largest sponsors are willing to finance the pro divisions in the Olympia featuring the smaller women, but it doesn't matter to them that anyone is getting upset, because they know that women bodybuilders will continue to buy their products anyway, just like the IFBB knows that 98-99% of the women bodybuilders are going to stay and continue competing.

**pnohe** · 10-24-2010, 12:58 PM

so I for one have taken to chilling my clients out and sticking to... "do you like the way you are training? eating? supplimenting? dieting? competing?" if so stay where you are and the path will change as it will and you can make alterations as needed. Knee jerk reactions always screw people up. I am pretty psyched for the potential but worry about those who have worked so hard and will find it dificult to adapt by holding on to the attitude that it was all "a waste of time"(and i have heard this a few times over the last few days)...trainers prepare to flex your sports psych skills

**Jodie** · 10-24-2010, 01:04 PM

I'm still taking the wait and see approach.

I can completely understand the points on less drug use. I totally like that approach. Its kinda shitty that they keep rewarding those that are BIG BIG...but then scream they want smaller. Umm hello, judge smaller then on the PRO LOVEL and National Level. Be consistant about whatg you're asking for instead of flip flopping on us. I mean come on....there are smaller girls that compete at those levels, but yet they pick the biggest. wtf??

Being one of the smaller girls, I never wanted to take what was needed to be huge and freaky. I like being smaller, I don't want to get any bigger, dave comments on me...needs more muscle. Fawk that...glad I didn't go that route. I was pleased with what I took to the stage last year, which is the same approach we will take next year.

**K-Max** · 10-24-2010, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Tre

The difference is that the largest sponsors are willing to finance the pro divisions in the Olympia featuring the smaller women, but it doesn't matter to them that anyone is getting upset, because they know that women bodybuilders will continue to buy their products anyway, just like the IFBB knows that 98-99% of the women bodybuilders are going to stay and continue competing.

Agreed 120%. That and those women only represent a small piece of the supplement revenue pie anyway as compared to say... figure + bikini + fitness and adding physique will further add more to that majority piece. And THEN you have the men.

**Curt James** · 10-24-2010, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Tre

Curt:

While it's true that people do not travel to watch IFBB pro women's bodybuilding, neither do they travel to watch pro women's bikini or pro women's figure and they're not suddenly going to start traveling to watch pro women's physique either.

The difference is that the largest sponsors are willing to finance the pro divisions in the Olympia featuring the smaller women, but it doesn't matter to them that anyone is getting upset, because they know that women bodybuilders will continue to buy their products anyway, just like the IFBB knows that 98-99% of the women bodybuilders are going to stay and continue competing.

Where?

Didn't Chick state that the WPD athletes will be a far stretch from the current FBB model? The larger competitors will not fit in any of the categories available.

Originally Posted by K-Max

Agreed 120%. That and those women only represent a small piece of the supplement revenue pie anyway as compared to say... figure + bikini + fitness and adding physique will further add more to that majority piece. And THEN you have the men.

Now that is interesting. Bob Cicherillo signs with BSN and then he proposes introducing a new division. A new supplement-purchasing division, eh? That's diabolical. lol

**SallyAnne** · 10-24-2010, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Curt James

Where?

Didn't Chick state that the WPD athletes will be a far stretch from the current FBB model? The larger competitors will not fit in any of the categories available.

I think what he means is that as long as there are FBBs entering shows and promoters promoting them, women's bodybuilding won't die. I have heard this from other people, as well.

**Amazon Doll** · 10-24-2010, 01:44 PM

So will the npc/ifbb still be putting on FBB shows? I don't think so.....

Originally Posted by chick

What happens to FBB remains to be seen...

Originally Posted by chick

Yes, the FBB shows will run as per the promoters willing to put them on, as you of all people know, Deb...it is often difficult to justify the expense...after that, I wouldnt bank on it given the coarse of action over the years and the decline of numbers..

I LOVE IT WHEN GUY'S TELL GIRLS TO STOP LIFTING WEIGHTS!

Originally Posted by huge285

I hate to break it to you but if you (and IRIS and the rest of the top OLYMPIA 6) have any chance of competing in that new PHYSIQUE division, you might want to stop training with weights

**p.s.** · 10-24-2010, 02:42 PM

Ok I've had enough of listening to this BS....Look if the judges had followed the 20% rule implemented by the IFBB in the first place then maybe this would not have become an issue. However wasn't there just a FBBing show a couple a months back that had one if the largest pro line ups in history? IMO if ya want the gals softer looking then test 'em for AAS and diuretics, and that should take care of the issue.

So is the sport dying maybe maybe not, but I do know that as with guys and dieting it's damned tough and lots of guys fall by the wayside 'cause of dieting so severly, and as girls have the option to do figure or bikini then why diet so severly? I mean really a gal can get a trophy and look good without killing herself so ya I can see why FBBing at the amature level has suffered, and the same applies to fitness IT"S DAMNED TOUGH!!

And you watch the same thing will start to happen with the guys with their new physique division. They'll start moving over to these shows as it's more marketable, doesn't require extreme dieting or "supplement" use, and hey clothes will fit as well...LOL!

Look there's always going to be advances physique wise in FBB/WPD and unless the judges are stead fast in sticking with the outlined criteria for muscularity, conditioning etc then in 5 years or so we'll be having this conversation all over again as the gals will have once again gotten to big and muscular.....

Personally I feel that it's the judges that are to be held accountable for this problem of FBBing getting to the point where a new division is required, and I believe that unless the IFBB starts to really police the judges to ensure that they are judging according to the rules outlined by the governing body this will continue to be an issue. This would also include the NPC, CBBF and all other IFBB sanctioned federations and then maybe we can have a set standard of rules for the women to follow.......

**Quadsweep** · 10-24-2010, 02:45 PM

If I was disrespectful at all in this thread I do apologize but I just cannot walk on egg shells anymore when it comes to this stuff.

Jeff

**Tre** · 10-24-2010, 02:49 PM

Chick:

First, props to you for calling out the judging standard.

That said, if 50+ women bodybuilders turn up to compete at the USAs in 2011, do YOU believe that Jon Lindsay will keep that division in his show for 2012?

I'm not asking you to speak for him or to make a declarative statement about the future, I'm merely asking for a 'yes' or 'no' opinion based on what you know about the business of NPC show promotion.

If there are 50 women bodybuilders in that show next year, I predict they'll keep it for 2012 as well.