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  1. #16
    Sponsor Prince's Avatar
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    ATD for Estrogen Control & PCT

    ATD (3,17-dioxo-etiochol-1,4,6-triene) is a recent introduction to estrogen control. It is thought to stop estrogen production in a manner similar to steroidal AI’s such as exemestane. Brand name ATD’s are Rebound XT, Rebound Reloaded, Novedex XT, Ultra H.O.T and Ultra H.O.T.ter.

    ATD is technically an aromatase inhibitor, but with some interesting properties that make it a very useful addition to our estrogen control arsenals.

    There are two negative feedback loops that we try to correct through post cycle therapy. The first is elevated estrogen levels from aromatase activity act on the hypothalamus to decrease GnRH production. The second is that elevated androgen levels stimulate androgen receptors in the hypothalamus causing decreased GnRH production. Decreased GnRH leads to reduced LH and FSH production, both of which are directly involved in testosterone production.

    Typical PCT with SERM’s and AI’s address the estrogen component of this negative feedback, but do nothing for androgenic stimulation of the hypothalamus. ATD addresses the androgenic feedback loop. ATD has 90% androgenic activity in muscle tissue but only 10% androgenic activity in the hypothalamus.

    ATD works for androgen activity the same way that tamoxifen works for estrogen. Tamoxifen blocks estrogen in breast tissue, but has positive effects in other tissue such as liver and bone. ATD blocks androgens in the hypothalamus, but allows it to be active in other tissue.

    Because of this dual action estrogen levels are lowered while testosterone levels begin to rise. This is because ATD tricks your hypothalamus into thinking testosterone levels are low so it produces more. ATD provides benefits far beyond simply controlling estrogen in your body. Through its control over the androgen negative feedback loop testosterone production is restarted much faster. And the faster you recover your natural testosterone production the easier it is to keep muscular gains.
    In addition to ATD’s benefits for post cycle therapy studies have shown that employing ATD during AAS use maintains significant HPTA function. This means reduced testicular atrophy and faster post-cycle recovery. This is something that you simply can’t get from estrogen control alone.

    ATD can also be used by the natural athlete to increase testosterone production. In studies increases of up to 400% in testosterone have been seen. This is equivalent to injecting 400-600mg per week of testosterone enanthate or cypionate. This means continued growth for the natural athlete without the problems and side effects usually associated with injecting testosterone.

    While there should technically not be any difference between the ATD ptoducts I have personally seen the best results using Rebound XT by Designer Supplements. I believe it is also the most cost effective of the ATD products out there. Your mileage may vary.

    I’ve found the following discussion on running SERM’s inverse to ATD’s which is both informative and by all accounts very effective. It has been posted on many forums and the credit for it goes to Dr. D. Thank you Dr. D!
    “Discussion on running SERM inverse to ATD.

    Estrogen only “rebounds” based on the mechanism of suppression. SERM, for example, only masks estrogen expression by occupying receptors but estrogen production is left unchecked and actually increases as testosterone levels increase. AI’s like letro inhibit inducible enzymes and just like a leaky faucet, they body will eventually try to balance the equation with increased aromatase activity. Steroidal AI’s like Teslac, Exemestane, and ReboundXT will not result in ‘rebound’ phenomena because the inhibition is non-competitive and irreversible. They act as false substrates, so aromatase is still happy to act on them (instead of androstenedione) and the body keeps no record of an imbalance. There is no leaky faucet. In fact, after prolonged use, steroidal AI’s often produce a protracted anti-e benefit even after being discontinued. This is why I suggest an inverse taper with SERM and RXT for PCT with an abrupt stoppage of RXT at the end. As the SERM elevates androgen/estrogen production, the AI dose is increased to compensate while the SERM is phased out. It works quite well to use this approach and rebound is not encountered. Adding LX and/or DHEA also really makes for a killer PCT in this scheme.

    http://www.ironmaglabs.com/articles_atd.php
    IronMag Labs 15% Off
    Coupon Code = Robert15


  2. #17
    Chemistry Experiment heavyiron's Avatar
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    Scientific proof that ATD lowers estradiol and raises testosterone.

    J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1984 Dec;59(6):1088-96.

    Inhibition of aromatization stimulates luteinizing hormone and testosterone secretion in adult male rhesus monkeys.

    Ellinwood WE, Hess DL, Roselli CE, Spies HG, Resko JA.

    Abstract

    Experiments were conducted to examine the role of aromatization in the control of LH and testosterone secretion in adult male rhesus monkeys. Treatment of male monkeys (n = 7) with sc Silastic packets containing the aromatase inhibitor 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD) resulted in 1.5- to 3-fold elevations in serum LH and testosterone concentrations in six of seven animals. Concurrent treatment of ATD-treated monkeys with small quantities of estradiol-17 beta (n = 4) abolished the stimulatory effect of ATD. During ATD treatment, peripheral estradiol levels were reduced by 30% and hypothalamic aromatase activity, as determined in vitro, was reduced 80-90%. The lack of androgenic or antiandrogenic activity of ATD was demonstrated by its inactivity in either a mouse seminal vesicle bioassay or a highly sensitive penile spine bioassay. Furthermore, ATD did not react with rat prostatic or hypothalamic cytosol androgen receptors. 1,4,6-Androstatriene-17-ol-3-one, a possible metabolite of ATD in vivo, did react with prostatic and hypothalamic androgen receptors, but possessed no antiandrogenic activity in either bioassay. Thus, treatment of adult males with an aromatase inhibitor that inhibits both peripheral and central aromatization, and which has no apparent antiandrogenic activity, results in stimulation of LH and testosterone secretion. These data demonstrate that aromatization of androgens to estrogens plays an important role in negative feedback regulation of LH secretion and maintenance of normal testosterone levels in adult male primates.


    PMID: 6541658 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


    All posts are for entertainment and may contain fiction. Consult a doctor before using any medications. heavyiron does not advocate readers engage in any illegal activity.


  3. #18
    BARBARIAN BROTHER The Neck's Avatar
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    Spot on, as usual!

  4. #19
    UNBANNED HammerStrength12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    Scientific proof that ATD lowers estradiol and raises testosterone.

    J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1984 Dec;59(6):1088-96.

    Inhibition of aromatization stimulates luteinizing hormone and testosterone secretion in adult male rhesus monkeys.

    Ellinwood WE, Hess DL, Roselli CE, Spies HG, Resko JA.

    Abstract

    Experiments were conducted to examine the role of aromatization in the control of LH and testosterone secretion in adult male rhesus monkeys. Treatment of male monkeys (n = 7) with sc Silastic packets containing the aromatase inhibitor 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD) resulted in 1.5- to 3-fold elevations in serum LH and testosterone concentrations in six of seven animals. Concurrent treatment of ATD-treated monkeys with small quantities of estradiol-17 beta (n = 4) abolished the stimulatory effect of ATD. During ATD treatment, peripheral estradiol levels were reduced by 30% and hypothalamic aromatase activity, as determined in vitro, was reduced 80-90%. The lack of androgenic or antiandrogenic activity of ATD was demonstrated by its inactivity in either a mouse seminal vesicle bioassay or a highly sensitive penile spine bioassay. Furthermore, ATD did not react with rat prostatic or hypothalamic cytosol androgen receptors. 1,4,6-Androstatriene-17-ol-3-one, a possible metabolite of ATD in vivo, did react with prostatic and hypothalamic androgen receptors, but possessed no antiandrogenic activity in either bioassay. Thus, treatment of adult males with an aromatase inhibitor that inhibits both peripheral and central aromatization, and which has no apparent antiandrogenic activity, results in stimulation of LH and testosterone secretion. These data demonstrate that aromatization of androgens to estrogens plays an important role in negative feedback regulation of LH secretion and maintenance of normal testosterone levels in adult male primates.


    PMID: 6541658 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


    I remember seeing this one before too, where did to find it? Useful for all those out there that say that ATD is useless.

  5. #20
    BARBARIAN BROTHER The Neck's Avatar
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    Bump!!

  6. #21
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    Another bump to the bump, Neck.

    So this product (from what heavy posted) is to be used during, for example, Super DMZ Rx use, however not post DMZ use (in other words, during PCT)?

  7. #22
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    Neck,

    Following up, I found the recommendations in the other thread (your post below), but am curious about the text posted by heavy which states (see below)...

    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    1,4,6 Androstatriene-dione (ATD)
    (snip)
    ATD would also be expected to interfere with production of natural testosterone by acting upon the hypothalamus pituitary testicular axis (HPTA), therefore this compound should not be used during post cycle therapy (PCT), however it could successfully be used during a cycle to help keep estrogen in control. (snip)
    Not to be used during PCT, however during supplement (DMZ in my example) use would be recommended.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Neck View Post
    6wk Cycle

    Super-DMZ Rx > Weeks 1-4 (20mg e/d)
    Anabolic Matrix Rx > Weeks 3-6 (2caps e/d)
    E-Control Rx > Weeks 3-6 (2caps e/d)
    Advanced Cycle Support Weeks > 1-8 (2caps e/d)
    ______________________________ ____________
    (snip)

  8. #23
    UNBANNED HammerStrength12's Avatar
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    ^^

    I think it would be most ideal to run it with an aromatizing compound like testosterone. To understand how it works you have to understand how ATD and other aromatase inhibitors work. And considering dmz doesn't aromatase, I'd think it would be more beneficial to run as pct as opposed to on cycle simply for it's LH boosting beneifts. If you can't get your hands on a SERM that is.

    I'd say the best use of it is to run it alongside an aromatizing compound though.

    This is the exact same compound as the popular novedex-xt by Gaspari, and it's ideal method of use has been debated for years. While there is some research on this AI, we don't know nearly as much about it as we do ones like aromasin, arimidex and letro.

  9. #24
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    ^ Thank you!

  10. #25
    BARBARIAN BROTHER The Neck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt James View Post
    Neck,

    Following up, I found the recommendations in the other thread (your post below), but am curious about the text posted by heavy which states (see below)...



    Not to be used during PCT, however during supplement (DMZ in my example) use would be recommended.



    Quote Originally Posted by HammerStrength12 View Post
    ^^

    I think it would be most ideal to run it with an aromatizing compound like testosterone. To understand how it works you have to understand how ATD and other aromatase inhibitors work. And considering dmz doesn't aromatase, I'd think it would be more beneficial to run as pct as opposed to on cycle simply for it's LH boosting beneifts. If you can't get your hands on a SERM that is.

    I'd say the best use of it is to run it alongside an aromatizing compound though.

    This is the exact same compound as the popular novedex-xt by Gaspari, and it's ideal method of use has been debated for years. While there is some research on this AI, we don't know nearly as much about it as we do ones like aromasin, arimidex and letro.

    Hammer pretty much nailed it. I recommend it as an extra insurance policy as to avoid any backlash from the cycle it'self.
    IronMagLabs 15% Off Coupon Code = TheNeck15


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  11. #26
    Future Sexy Campeon
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    has this been discontinued i read it on another forum???

  12. #27
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    ^ Don't believe everything you read.

    E-CONTROL Rx™ - Anti-Estrogen




    >>> E-CONTROL Rx™ - Anti-Estrogen <<<

    - Decreases Estrogen
    - Increases Testosterone
    - Effective for PCT (Post Cycle Therapy)

    1,4,6-Androstatriene-3,17-dione is a potent irreversible aromatase inhibitor. It inhibits estrogen biosynthesis by permanently binding and inactivating aromatase in adipose and peripheral tissue. By reducing the production of estrogen, circulating estrogen levels drop which in turn indirectly increases testosterone levels.

    >>>
    E-CONTROL Rx™ - Anti-Estrogen <<<

  13. #28
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Neck View Post
    Hammer pretty much nailed it. I recommend it as an extra insurance policy as to avoid any backlash from the cycle it'self.
    Excellent!

  14. #29
    Chemistry Experiment heavyiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieselXT View Post
    has this been discontinued i read it on another forum???
    The original formula will no longer be available once the last bottles sell out. ATD is being banned. There are a few hundred bottles left of the original formula.


    All posts are for entertainment and may contain fiction. Consult a doctor before using any medications. heavyiron does not advocate readers engage in any illegal activity.


  15. #30
    Future Sexy Campeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    The original formula will no longer be available once the last bottles sell out. ATD is being banned. There are a few hundred bottles left of the original formula.
    thanks heavy, but why is it being banned??? what reason for this??? any replacements for this??

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