Epistane

[BB'nMom]

Hello, I'm looking for some additional info/advice on epistane, specifically havoc.

Here's my stats...
Age: 31
Height: 5'5"
Weight: 185

Years training: 14 (with several long periods off)
Current diet/training: Just keeping the food clean, splitting it up over 5-6 meals. Training is cardio 20-30 minutes/day, 4-5 days/week. Lifting anywhere from 20-60+ minutes/day, 4-5 days a week.
Past aas use: None
Goals: I have not competed, and don't know if I plan to. This cycle is for me. I love bodybuilding.

I am coming off of 6 months of no exercise other than light cardio per doctor's orders in order to deal with some bursitis which is now thankfully gone! However, I got pretty depressed and lazy and managed to put on about 20 lbs!!! That's what a good deal of comfort/boredom food will do to ya!

I'm wanting to get back to where I was 6 months ago. I've been training again for 2 weeks and haven't lost as much strength as I thought I had. I want to lose the fat I've gained without losing any more of my precious muscle. Once I'm done with that, I'd like to focus on putting some muscle back on. I know I'm in for a long haul.

I've got 2 bottles of havoc, 90 10mg caps each. Looking at starting with 10mg EOD.

So, my questions:
1. How long should I wait before starting the cycle? Is it OK to use it while cutting, or should I focus on getting the body fat down before starting?
2. How long should I run it? Ideally, I'd like to run a cycle while cutting back down to a reasonable BF%(dependent on answer to 1 above), and another to focus on building some good solid mass.
3. I've been taking wellbutrin for the depression. Should I stop that before using the havoc? Now that I'm able to lift again, the depression shouldn't be an issue, but will consult the doc on that part of it.
4. Do I need to take anything along with it? Liver support? I've already got the acidopholis ready to go.
5. Did I miss anything? All thoughts and advice are greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

[HammerStrength12]

RPN Havoc or Primaforce Havoc? There's a big difference in those 2 clones surprisingly...

[BB'nMom]

RPN Havoc or Primaforce Havoc? There's a big difference in those 2 clones surprisingly...

Primaforce.
I thought RPN licensed it to Primaforce... did Primaforce do something different with it?

[heavyiron]

Check out this thread for profile info.

[ame="http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthread.php?t=27747"]Havoc~Methepitostane - RX Muscle Forums[/ame]

[HammerStrength12]

Primaforce.
I thought RPN licensed it to Primaforce... did Primaforce do something different with it?

They did, but as far as quality assurance goes, Primaforce is one of the worst supplement companies out there. Their batches are very inconsistent. This one tub of their beta-alanine I bought was completely bunk. As was a tub of phenibut. It's really hit or miss with them.

[BB'nMom]

Check out this thread for profile info.

Havoc~Methepitostane - RX Muscle Forums

I read all that a while back. It was part of my decision to go with epi. That and it's easier to find and cheaper to get than var. It seems like a decent choice for women, but I haven't been able to find much first hand (or decent second hand) experience with it. What I have found has been positive though.

They did, but as far as quality assurance goes, Primaforce is one of the worst supplement companies out there. Their batches are very inconsistent. This one tub of their beta-alanine I bought was completely bunk. As was a tub of phenibut. It's really hit or miss with them.

That I didn't know. I guess I spent my time researching compounds, not companies! I won't be totally devastated if what I've got is a bit weak since its my first cycle, but I'll certainly go for the RPN next time. Thanks for the info.

[HammerStrength12]

That I didn't know. I guess I spent my time researching compounds, not companies! I won't be totally devastated if what I've got is a bit weak since its my first cycle, but I'll certainly go for the RPN next time. Thanks for the info.

Yeah, you should be fine. If never actually heard of the Primaforce brand being contaminated, just weak.

I loved epi, had great results while on it. Pretty easy on the liver for a methylated designer, in fact my liver enzymes were only slightly elevated when on it. Just make sure you do your research/get feeback from women that have run this compound before.

[retroshaper]

Hey ladies! I have done a fair bit of research on OTC PH/DS specifically for women. I have been on a lot of forums and accumulated some HARD TO FIND info based on experiences women have had with these OTC compounds. Some of these are getting harder to find and two compounds that had good reviews by women (Bold, Tren Xtreme and their clones) are gone for good as they were banned by the FDA January 4, 2010.

Here are the compounds that I know of that are still available and some of the feed back from women I found. I am not recommending anything just providing the feedback I have accumulated.

Orastan-E (Gaspari Nutrition)
This is a de-alkylated derivative of Stanozol (winstrol).
Clones were:
Prostanozol (Anabolic Xtreme), WinZtrol (Juggernaut Nutrition), Mega ZOL (Generic Labz), Winistan-V (Muscle Fortress)
Still available:
I think the only one still available is P-Stanz (CEL)
This is a very mild compound! Maybe the mildest out of the OTCs.
One lady loved this at 50mg pre workout (placebo I think). A woman I know ran this as her first run for 10 weeks starting at 50mg ED ramping it up all the way to 200mg ED before finishing. She had no notable side effects what so ever. All of her lifts went up and she leaned out a little as well.


Orastan-A (Gaspari Nutrition)
This is a de-alkylated derivative of Furazabol (Miotolan).
Clones were:
Winadrol (CTD Labs), Furazavol (Black Dragon Labs)
Still available:
Furuza-A (CEL), Furaguno (Spectra Force Research), Furazadrol (Axis Labs) - Primordial Performance...MIGHT be coming out with a liquid version of this.
This is a very mild compound as well. Maybe a little bit better than the Orastan-E clones.
Most women say that it is weak and that you would have to run it at 150mg - 200mg at the least and up to 350mg if no sides occur. A woman I know ran this for 8 weeks starting at 150mg ED ramping it up to 300mg ED before finishing. Sides and results were about the same as the Orastan-E clone.


Halodrol-50 (Gaspari Nutrition)
This is methylated so support supplements would be recommended and with a run of about 6 weeks. Most say that it is active on it's own but also partially converts to Turinabol.
Clones were:
halo-MASS (Anabolic Formulations), Hemadrol (EST), Super halo (Black China Labs) and many more!
Still available:
H-Drol (CEL) maybe a few more
I have seen this run by women at 25 - 50mg day. All the reviews I have read say that they loved it, had little to no sides, good lean gains, fat loss, incredible pumps. Some reported an increase in libido. I only found one lady who stated that at 50mg, she had some tingling and slight swelling of her clit but it was very mild and did not concerned her.


Havoc (RPN)/Epistane (IBE)
This is methylated so support supplements would be recommended and with a run of about 6 weeks. It is also a popular compound for use with the 'pulse method' and many say that it reduces estrogen. It is a methylated version of Epitiostanol which was created in the 1960's and used as a treatment for breast cancer in Japan.
I think most of the clones are still available: Might need to do a little searching.
E-Stane (CEL), Epistane (IBE), Epi ((Transform)
The most common dosing for women is 10mg EOD or 10mg ED but some have gone up to at 20mg per day for 5-6 weeks. One woman ran Epi at 10mg ED for 3 months (NOT RECOMENDED AT ALL!!!) and stated that the gains were modest. One lady reported at 20mg a reduction in fat occurred while maintaining or increasing muscle mass. She did state that she also went down one bra size possibly due to estrogen suppression as it was more radical compared to the fat loss she experienced. A few women who ran this at 15mg ED noticed some of the symtoms of voice changing. Also, some reported an increase in libido.


Superdrol (Anabolic Xtreme)
This is the strongest PH/DS available! It should not be run longer than 4 weeks. Support supplements are a must! This is a methylated form of Drostanolone (Masteron).
Clones include but not limited to:
Methyl-VOL (EST), MethaDROL (iForce), Straight-DROL (Black China Labs), S-Drol (Fast Action Pharma) this one was the most recomended by women as it was in Tab form not capsule and could be cut in half or quarters for lower dosing. Also there were a few lquid versions but these are very hard to find now.
Still available: There may be more than just these.
M-Drol (CEL), SD-Extreme (Transform)
Most clones are dosed at 10mg caps which makes this difficult for a woman. Some ladies were splitting the caps open a deviding the contents in half or even quarters. The problem with this is that it is impossible to know if your doses are even at that point (one half could be filler and the other contain 10mg of superdrol). It seems like 2.5mg taken 2xs ED for a total of 5mg ED had the best results (she was taking S-Drol tabs that were quartered in a pill cutter) with no sides. Some ladies have dosed this at 10mg without sides. Although, one woman told me she was only on for 3 weeks at 10mg ED and she stopped because her clit started to protrude out.

I hope this is informative and helps you make educated decisions!

[Ryan Bracewell]

They did, but as far as quality assurance goes, Primaforce is one of the worst supplement companies out there. Their batches are very inconsistent. This one tub of their beta-alanine I bought was completely bunk. As was a tub of phenibut. It's really hit or miss with them.

Are you saying that primaforce havoc is a different chemical compound or just that you feel they are not a reliable company? How do you know the beta A was bunk? I don't see why a company that specifically sells raw materials would sell bunk stuff when what is supposed to be in the bottle is cheap already.

[Ryan Bracewell]

Havoc (RPN)/Epistane (IBE)
This is methylated so support supplements would be recommended and with a run of about 6 weeks. It is also a popular compound for use with the 'pulse method' and many say that it reduces estrogen. It is a methylated version of Epitiostanol which was created in the 1960's and used as a treatment for breast cancer in Japan.
I think most of the clones are still available: Might need to do a little searching.
E-Stane (CEL), Epistane (IBE), Epi ((Transform)
The most common dosing for women is 10mg EOD or 10mg ED but some have gone up to at 20mg per day for 5-6 weeks. One woman ran Epi at 10mg ED for 3 months (NOT RECOMENDED AT ALL!!!) and stated that the gains were modest. One lady reported at 20mg a reduction in fat occurred while maintaining or increasing muscle mass. She did state that she also went down one bra size possibly due to estrogen suppression as it was more radical compared to the fat loss she experienced. A few women who ran this at 15mg ED noticed some of the symtoms of voice changing. Also, some reported an increase in libido.

Another one is CTD Labs Equibold. One benefit to there product is that each pill is 5mg. Most of the women I knew that took this product did 5-10mg ED, but they were no FBB.

[retroshaper]

Another one is CTD Labs Equibold. One benefit to there product is that each pill is 5mg. Most of the women I knew that took this product did 5-10mg ED, but they were no FBB.

Thanks Ryan! This is not a complete list at all just accumulated info.

[pebble]

I don't know why but I didn't experience much gains while on IBE epistane. I took 1 capsule per day. Sides were also minimal to non existant.
I know guys who who experienced great results with IBE espistane. Either it doesn't work so well on women or it's just me.

[retroshaper]

I don't know why but I didn't experience much gains while on IBE epistane. I took 1 capsule per day. Sides were also minimal to non existant.
I know guys who who experienced great results with IBE espistane. Either it doesn't work so well on women or it's just me.

I think they had a few bad batches. You could have just been an unlucky one.

[anneparker]

Well, I was looking for this exact information for my thesis work on epistane. I am gonna need some more help here about the epistane , I want to know the real effect of epistane on the body muscles. Is there anything which can prevent it from spreading in the whole area.

epistane

[partsRheavy]

I don't know where you are or what university you attend, but I don't think you have thought out your M.S. or Ph.D. thesis problem very well at all.

You need to reconsider your thesis subject and state your topic in a more specific manner as how you intend to measure your results.

You also need to pick a more general and more widely-interesting topic, probably concerning overall exercise physiology, than Epistane. That topic is much too narrow for even a decent M.S. thesis never mind a Ph.D.

I'm telling you this at the Beginning of your apparent thesis intentions so that you don't waste time further down the line. Better and easier to change topic now than to change it later.

Thanks for playing....good luck getting that Sheepskin!