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12-29-2010, 07:01 AM #1
Mutant's Pre Workout Insulin Protocol
Didn't know if this was already posted and I think its a great read so here goes. PLEASE DON'T USE INSULIN UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING!!!!!
Insulin before workout
I read near the end of the CPWO thread about using insulin prior to working out and have been doing some reading and a particular protocol was listed as follows:
Ok, so after talking to some professional and elite bodybuilders, I have learned quite a bit about what a well known professional trainer is having these bodybuilders to do to obtain the retarded amounts of weight they have been added to their bodies. It's simply taking their insulin pre-workout, combined with 3 "shakes". I looked at this Insulin protocol, and the ingredients in the shakes, and designed my own Insulin Protacol to better suit my goals and routine. I use better quality of ingredients in my shakes, and added my HGH pre-workout, and igf-1lr3 post workout as well.
Now, the theory behind this insulin protocol is, "Why break the body down, only to rebuild it? When you can simply keep adding onto the Body!"
So basically, by forcing the carbohydrates and Essential Amino Acids into your muscles while you train, the muscle tissue is not breaking down in the same manner that they normally would. It is actually being both protected and forced to grow at the same time. I have not done too much research behind the theory, but it sure sounded good to me, based on what I know about enhancing drugs and supplementation. I prefer trying things out myself, and going by results. Well, the results were spectacular.
This sounds pretty logical to me and seems it would work two fold in a carbless post workout system as well. You can have the benefit of forcing nutrients into the muscle for growth as well as have the circulating helping to push any existing blood glucose through the system on through the CPWO. So instead of just using Humulin R after the workout for leanness; who wouldn't give this a high consideration? Would the disadvantage be the methodology of being in a carbless state with active insulin in your system for a longer period of time? If Humalog begins working in 10 minutes and peak in 1-1.5 hours and stay active in the system for 3-3.5 hours; that seems like a more logical step (for my goals).
Before I begin, I want to say that this typed out protocol is just a base. It is to give you a base to work from/with. Everybody is different. Some people will need more or less carbs and amino acids. This is based on the amount of insulin that they are using and how their bodies react. This is why I gave a range for the supplements and insulin doses. You will need to adjust it based on how you react. For the carbohydrates, always start high, and lower it accordingly, once you get the feel of it.
We start off by taking our HGH, and give it a few minutes to get circulating, before we add our insulin. The idea behind this, is to make sure that the HGH passes the liver while we have a substantial amount of insulin in the body. This is how we produce large IGF-1 spikes. After the workout, we go home and take our IGF-1LR3. We are taking this to increase our insulin sensitivity, and to help use up any of those receptors that we have not filled. I could go more into detail, but if you are using this protocol, you should already know all about the drugs, and should be able to put it together yourself.
My gut is telling me that unless you have a lot of desires for look and anti-aging properties with HGH, that the hgh and igf could be eliminated and just follow the insulin protocol alone. Another benefit from reading that I haven't verified by multiple sources or thorough research is the fact that insulin output is the highest in the morning with excretion around 40%...so if you're an a.m. athlete; it appears you would also be controlling a major portion of the pancreas work for that day and help keep insulin at sought after levels. Perhaps someone with more experience could shed light?
- -30 min prior to workout: Take 10iu HGH subq
- -15 min prior to workout: Take 6-16iu Novalog subq
- -10 min prior to workout: Drink shake #1
- -After every working set: Sip on shake #2, and finish by end of workout
- -Go home
- -Take 100mcg of the IGF-1lr3 (for it's insulin sensitizing effects)
- -Take down shake #3
- -Done..now you are huge
Ok, now what is in the shakes...
Shake 1: 10-20g EAA's (Essential Amino Acids) or PeptoPro, 40-60g Low DE Maltodextrin, 5g Micronized Creatine Monohydrate, 200mg Caffeine (or pre-workout powdered mix of choice in place of caffeine)
Thought for research to conclude if the most beneficial amount of carbs would be in the range of 7-10g per iu of insuline used. So at drink #1 with 4iu's being 28-40g of carbs and again with drink #2....keeping extra glucose tabs, sugar or whatever near as a back up should this not be enough.....
Shake 2: 10-20g EAA's or PeptoPro, 50-100g Dextrose, 5g Micronized Creatine Monohydrate
Shake 3: 2 cups pasteurized egg whites, 1 cup dry oats, 1 banana or 1 cup blueberries (I prefer them to be frozen), splenda or stevia
*There is no need for a supplemented post workout shake because your glycogen will not be depleted, and you will have been ingesting aminos the whole time too. So dense whole food calories with low fat content, are going to be the best option here. So we throw it in a blender and take it down. CPWO!
Now, I would like to advise you cheap-skates, not to go out and buy the cheapest ingredients that you can find. Please pick quality supplements. It does and will make a difference. Spend the extra 2$ and buy some quality shit, or your results may be skewed. Thinks about it this way: Your body is a Lamborghini. Would you fill your tank with low grade octane from Costco? No, of course not, it would run like shit. So use quality supplements, not bulk junk crap, and your results will be that much better!
Supplement idea for those of you who need to be pointed in the right direction:
EAA's: Champion Nutrition makes a good EAA product that has creatine in it, and also one that has caffeine too. It's called Amino Shooter. There are 3 versions. None are a proprietary blend, and they are made with pharmacy grade aminos.
PeptoPro: This can be used in place of the EAA's. It is a high quality peptide/EAA product made from hydrolyzed casein. Different companies buy PeptoPro and flavor it. One brand I have tried that is flavored is MAP by Primordial Performance.
Low DE Maltodextrin: This means Low Dextrose Equivalency. The lower the equivalence, the more complex of a chain it is, and the slower it will break down into a sugar. A couple good ones are Carb Complex by Nutek, and Cytocarb 2 by Cytosport. If corn maltodextrins give you stomach problems, then other water soluble carbohydrates like Karbolyn can work. They just tend to be expensive, and do the same exact thing. Some people that have used this protocol with success, have actually used dextrose in place of the maltodextrin due to stomach problems.
Dextrose: Yes, you can find this anywhere, but I prefer AST's DGC because it also contains vitamins.
Micronized Creatine Monohydrate: Well, the name says it all. Any brand that uses Creapure as the source of their creatine monohydrate, should be just fine. I use Bioplex.
*Do not use cheap starch carbs, like waxy maize, in the shakes. The carbs need to be water soluble and easily digested. By keeping them soluble, they help pull the aminos in.
I decided to throw this protocol together after I had my leg surgery, in hopes of gaining some abnormal amounts of muscle back that I had lost. I can tell you that I did, and this protocol works better than any protocol I have ever used. I started off at 204 - 205lb, and ended up at 234 after 4-5 weeks! I was taking anabolics on the side, but I guarantee that amount of insane weight, that fast, was not from the long estered steroids I was taking. I literally filled out instantly. When I dropped the insulin, I only lost a few pounds of water, and retained most, if not all, of my strength. So the gains were very solid, and not just a bunch of glycogen storage.
I do not want to post this on the open forums because there are too many idiot kids out there that will attempt this protocol in hopes of becoming an instant monster (which wont happen for them), and they will mess it up somehow. Maybe by being stupid, maybe by cutting corners, maybe by using cheap ingredients. Who knows? I don't need people hurting themselves, or not having good results, and them coming back and complaining. Even though they were the ones cutting corners!
So, there it is boys. Some people are paying big money for this type of info. It's nothing special. It's just different, but it makes sense and it works.
*Added note: Since this protocol was designed and posted, a handful of advanced users have tried it as part of their bulking regime. They have also had great success.
Good Luck and Stay safe MUTANT
12-29-2010, 07:24 AM #2
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- the name's Bar Bellman
- Rep Power
very interesting......thanks for posting
12-29-2010, 09:50 AM #3
I personally like to inject my insulin and gh at different times of the day. I try not to consume and carbs around the time i inject my gh.
But i have been using slin pre workout and so far im getting good pumps, im only up to 7ius of humalog
12-30-2010, 08:03 AM #4
I've been experimenting on and off with fast/medium slin at 4-8iu 15mins pre W/O with 40g carbs from vitargo (plus aminos/creatine/glutamine), and the same drink post W/O.
I tend to split my GH dose up 2-4iu on rising (7am) and 2-4iu 1 hour post W/O when blood sugar is low (at about 3pm). This protocol has kept a lot of gains whilst tapering off gear after a show 6 weeks ago.
I will try this pre workout GH protocol a try for a few weeks though with the shakes as specified and let people know the results (if i'm not dead!)
12-30-2010, 01:41 PM #5
I run alot of slin and HGH yearly. Interested on input to the theory that insulin can only be run heavily one cycle per year? 10iu's 2x a day 5 days a week for 3 months. According to some "gurus" you can't run slin the remaining 9 months due to insulin sensitivity?
12-30-2010, 08:33 PM #6
Mutant knows his shit. Dude looks great too. Funny seeing his protocall posted here too.
12-30-2010, 10:02 PM #7
Just curious to hear from some of the guys who have more experience with insulin, ive done some research, but not nearly enough. I dont plan on running soon but maybe somewhere down the road.... Anyway, what about running slin during time off aas or inbetween cycles as a way to help maintain/add some more muscle while taking a break from anabolics? Do you guys usually run slin while on aas or during time off (i guess that question kind of doesnt apply to the guys on trt but Id like to hear from any and all)
ps reps bushmaster, interesting post. Cheers, shorty
12-30-2010, 10:04 PM #8
damn, i guess I gotta spread the reps around before getting you again bro. but Ill come back to ya. Cheers, Shorty
12-31-2010, 08:44 AM #9
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- Sep 2009
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good thread the only thing for me that is a non sens is the thrid shake, I mean if the egg white are raw, that's useless because your body can't digest them at all.
12-31-2010, 10:04 AM #10
Looks interesting. 10iu hgh all at once? Damn! lol
12-31-2010, 12:08 PM #11
12-31-2010, 02:23 PM #12
12-31-2010, 02:41 PM #13
Just curious where you got your info on this? Im not arguing necessarily, but I dont understand why your body wouldnt be able to digest raw egg whites? I do the pasturized liquid egg whites with oatmeal and a little protein powder every morning for breakfast, 1 carton egg whites, 2/3cup oatmeal, 1 scoop vanilla protein powder(casein/whey blend) toss it all in a shaker cup grab an apple or banana and go.
On a side note, pretty sure ive read that Hany Rambod has some of his clients do liquid egg whites, and that is the only "shake" they get to have....
12-31-2010, 06:17 PM #14
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- Sep 2009
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12-31-2010, 06:28 PM #15
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- Rep Power
I learned it at school, I made cooking studies ( I was working as a chef before) and I learned dietetique (excuse my poor english), maybe I was a little too hard when I said not digestible at all but according to the studies on the link I post under that only 51.3% for raw eggs against 90.9% for cooked eggs. And rumors of what Hany Rambod do or not are still rumors, but if he really ask people to do that what could I say lol sometimes people do strange things
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/128/10/1716.full explanation of digestibility for raw and cooked eggs
01-01-2011, 08:40 AM #16
I wonder if Metformin would have any benefit to this protocol. IMO it could be utilized instead of IGF.
01-01-2011, 08:42 AM #17
01-01-2011, 05:59 PM #18
IGF DES 1,3 is still so new....
It supposedly is superior but perhaps may be more localized than systematic as far as growth goes.
I like the protocol above but in an old off topic interview Milos says if you are using pre workout slin, to assume 15g carbs per IU injected. The required amount is slightly different than when replenishing with slin post workout.
01-01-2011, 06:56 PM #19
01-01-2011, 11:24 PM #20
01-02-2011, 03:33 AM #21
Do you realize how many different factors this is dependant on? Including prior meal, timing of prior meal, workout intensity and duration, etc?
01-02-2011, 04:35 AM #22
01-02-2011, 06:06 AM #23
01-04-2011, 03:30 PM #24
05-02-2011, 06:10 PM #25
iam going to start this protocol tommorrow but iam going to keep doing my gh, ghrp-2 in the morning and do the slin before workout and igf after anyone else do it this way. Iam also going to start with 2 ius for 2 days 3 ius 2 days and so on until i get to 6. Anyone else tried this way with good results?