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  1. #301
    RX MEMBER jim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl33 View Post
    ..... and weapons of mass destruction, and all the stuff that makes people fat, and computers and internet and ghosts, and laser beams..


    Im not saying technological advances are bad. But geez, sometimes it would be nice if things were just a little less "sophisticated". Maybe we live longer, but do we really live better? I mean you listen to stories from older folks, and it seems everything was a little better "back in the day" too much BS on tv, internet and so on. I feel bad for my little guy, more than likely, its just gonna get worse..
    but the wmd's and laser beams seem to primarily be used based on greed, hate, and faith.

    and while i may sometimes romanticize earlier times, i'm awfully glad that i'm unlikely to die from a hernia now. 150 years ago i would likely be a goner.

  2. #302
    RX MEMBER jim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    I agree. You have to be skeptical when looking at information. There is a lot of BS out there when it comes to this sort of stuff.

    We'll have to see where the science leads us, and we need to go with open but skeptical minds.
    sounds good.

  3. #303
    GYM RAT SonOfPluto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim View Post
    i fully agree with that. if such things are real, they would be physical. then they are definitely fall under the purview of science. however, there are number of problems with things like "ghosts" beyond their non-physicality. the point i made about the problem with the instantiation of mental states remains as they clearly don't have brains.
    also, so much of the "evidence" for this stuff is problematic. it seems open to different interpretations, many of which have no room for "ghosts," it isn't repeatable, along with other issues. while it is true that we don't have everything figured out, we are in the midst of the greatest synthesis of scientific understanding in our history (with theories from all fields overlapping and buttressing each other), and there is just no room for things like "ghosts." does that rule them out? no. but it should make us wary and skeptical.
    fair enough?
    I don't see anything wrong with being wary and skeptical, but I disagree that there is no room to study ghostly phenomena. If indeed there is a physical causation for this, then it would never be discovered and understood if avoided all together. I think you should exercise caution when making assumptions regarding brain function because this is something that is still not fully understood. Also, the 'thought' process cannot be fully attributed to merely the brain. if this were so, then people would cease to think after their physical bodies die, but there is a lot of ancedontal evidence to suggest that thought continues to occur long into the afterlife.

  4. #304
    GYM RAT SonOfPluto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim View Post
    by magic i mean anything having to do with the supernatural or paranormal. no one responsible for the bringing about of any of the current scientific paradigms thought they were dealing anything other than wholly physical phenomena. more than that, they couldn't. science is naturalistic. it just doesn't deal with the non-natural.

    q.m. would never have been considered magic. it's math, and its theoretical entities are wholly material. while it might be the case that the practical products of q.m. might as well be magic for as much as the everyday person would understand them, such as computers, the explanation behind it has nothing in common with magic.

    as a side note, i would appreciate it if you would stop calling me close-minded, especially when i'm taking you seriously and addressing your points rather than attacking you personally. it seems counter-productive to call each other names.
    In the movie "what the bleep do we know", the man who introduced Quantum physics to the scientific world defines it as the law of possibilities. Simply stated, Quantum physics does not rule anything out, and this would include things we clearly do not understand, such as supernatural phenomena and the existence of life in other parts of the Universe. Another thing that is said is that 'a grain of sand contains a thousand universes'. Suggesting that there is are multitudes of life existence that reaches far beyond our own. Its another thing that is simply not understood by science yet.

  5. #305
    MUSCLEHEAD lartinos's Avatar
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    My psychic powers tell me this thread will soon be closed...oh wait that's just a wish.

  6. #306
    GYM RAT SonOfPluto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lartinos View Post
    My psychic powers tell me this thread will soon be closed...oh wait that's just a wish.
    It will die down in due time. I'm surprised it became as large as it did really. I think most of the arguments for and against the positions have been made.

  7. #307
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    But we haven't discussed aliens and UFOs.....

    One of my favorite topics. I love ghost stuff but it gives me bad dreams at night. UFO stuff is awesome. I wish I could see a legit UFO.

  8. #308
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    I could watch shows on UFOs all day 24/7. I wish I were an alien. Then I could fly around in space digging the scenery while listening to cool space music.

  9. #309
    GYM RAT SonOfPluto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    But we haven't discussed aliens and UFOs.....

    One of my favorite topics. I love ghost stuff but it gives me bad dreams at night. UFO stuff is awesome. I wish I could see a legit UFO.
    I don't know much about UFO's, but there have been hundreds of accounts where people insist they were abducted by aliens. As far fetched as the idea may seem, these people had some kind of strong motivation to tell their stories. I think what people think of as 'aliens' are simply entities that reside in other dimensions aside from our own. The verified sightings of UFOs could account for instances when they cross over from their dimension into our own.

  10. #310
    GYM RAT SonOfPluto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    I could watch shows on UFOs all day 24/7. I wish I were an alien. Then I could fly around in space digging the scenery while listening to cool space music.
    Watch out for those martians on tren, I hear they can get pretty aggressive.

  11. #311
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    Or they could just be aliens from other planets just exploring like we would.

    I love the arguments that it's not physically possible for UFOs to be here because of the distances. Like a civilization that could easily be a million years more advanced in technology couldn't figure out a way to get around that!

    Oh, and that there's no physical evidence. Like a UFO that went across the galaxy is just going to have nuts and bolts falling off that we could find.

  12. #312
    RX MEMBER ODINSOWN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim View Post
    haha. i've been in lots of cemeteries. dude, i live in new orleans. cemeteries are everywhere. i spent years playing in a horror-punk band. i've played a show in a cemetery. i'm a huge horror movie fan. you'd just laugh if you saw the horror crap sitting around my apartment. seriously, you don't know me. you're making all sorts of assumptions which are wholly unwarranted.
    Yes I was but now as you have cleared that up.

  13. #313
    RX MEMBER ElSpiko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfPluto View Post
    I don't know which Ghosthunters you've been watching, but the one I've followed for over 4 years on the sci-fi channel has captured a lot of evidence during various episodes. One good example is the dozens of evp (electronic voice phenomena) that they have been able to capture. How about the Florida lighthouse episode where the viewer can clearly hear a woman's voice say "hello" in response to Jay and Grant stating it. Unless of course, you're going to assert that this gathered evidence is faked somehow, which would be a huge stretch to conclude, and to which you would be unable to prove anyhow. I have captured EVP myself at a funeral, relatives later identify the disembodied voice I recorded as that of the deceased. I've even sent this file to some people on the MD board that requested it. Just an observation: your rhetoic bears an uncanny resemblence to that of the late Mike Mentzer. He too errouneously believed that everything we experience could somehow be explained using scientific logic.
    How was Mentzer erroneous? You have not shown that a logical understanding of the universe is a false one in any way shape or form, and better and more intelligent men and women than you have certainly been trying for centuries now.

    I watched those Ghosthunters clips, and I saw nothing that indicates the supernatural in any way. There is nothing in any of those that shows any evidence of anything but natural phenomena. There are lots of blurry images that are just pattern recognition, evidence of nothing but false-positives and great examples of how this bullshit gets started. They see the supernatural because that is what they want to see. None of this evidence can meet the skeptics' challenge. Again, the issue here is that you are all going to 'magic' as the default because you want to believe that is the answer, when really what you're seeing is a lot of shoddy untestable 'evidence' and hyperbole about what it indicates. Once again, you're all relying on anecdotal evidence to argue against tested, well documented evidence on the nature of the universe and how it operates. The probability that any of that phenomena is 'supernatural' is astronomically higher than the probability that the retards in that show and everyone believing it are just misinterpreting the data. You'll even hear them sometimes suggest the most probable, logical answer, and yet then they'll say "Well it can't be that, it must be ghosts!" as if that is somehow the more logical and likely answer, that the universe just showed that everything we have ever come to understand through observational, testable data just got thrown out the window. Those people are paid to be delusional morons for the entertainment and validation of other delusional morons (their viewers).

    As for 'What the bleep do we know' that movie was a crock of shit. Entertaining, yes, but complete and utter bullshit as even the most basic of research into the concepts presented in it will show you. Once again, just because we do not have a complete understanding of something does not mean that anything goes; and in the case of quantum physics specifically, one of the reasons we are researching a unified theory is because quantum mechanics only applies to the micro and newtonian/einsteinian physics to the macro. The moment anyone starts throwing around the word 'quantum' to explain phenomena in the macro world that's a very good sign that they probably have no idea what the hell they are talking about.

  14. #314
    RX MEMBER ElSpiko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfPluto View Post
    I don't see anything wrong with being wary and skeptical, but I disagree that there is no room to study ghostly phenomena. If indeed there is a physical causation for this, then it would never be discovered and understood if avoided all together. I think you should exercise caution when making assumptions regarding brain function because this is something that is still not fully understood. Also, the 'thought' process cannot be fully attributed to merely the brain. if this were so, then people would cease to think after their physical bodies die, but there is a lot of ancedontal evidence to suggest that thought continues to occur long into the afterlife.
    No there isn't! There is no evidence whatsoever of any afterlife, and there cannot even be anecdotal evidence of this because dead people cannot 'sense' anything because our senses are a physiological process that ceases when all other physiological functions cease. Plus thought is well documented to be only a function of brain chemistry.

  15. #315
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    Seems like alot of people here need to read Richard Dawkins' book called "The God Delusion".

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