Figure Stack?

[DameDash]

First and foremost I really appreciate Sassy's time and advice. I love how she answers pm's and posts. She keeps it real but is so professional and respectful of others! Especially the part about raising the questions. Do I want my figure competitor friend to use a bunch of gear, Test or even Deca? No! For the record she is not a newbie to training, competition etc just Fem Chem. I've seen her go from bikini physique at best to national level figure.

But she chooses to, may be a little impatient and should do more of her own research. On the other hand she does bust ass in the gym, is very focused & disciplined and was not out of place on that Arnold Amateur stage. Just because you miss the top 10 at such a show does not mean you're garbage or do not have IFBB pro potential.

Her symmetry is sick in my book. She just needs a little size evenly, everywhere. And I told her that will come with a solid off season, not in 23 weeks before your next show because you changed your gear around. But she's gonna do something so I may as well look out for her as she's got some shit advice from so called "national level males" before!

As far as people thinking Figure competitors do not use or only use a little Var... are you freaking kidding me. I've seen some very feminine figure girls with some obvious voice changes at the STATE level.

As far as bikini girls using AAS that's absurd if the do. And any use of cutting agents is just plain ass lazy on their part because they don't have to be ripped in the first place. Clen, T3 & Nolva... Come on! This is all why do to her structure and lack of desire to use any AAS, I've steered my GF to bikini from figure (as I too originally scoffed at the division). Yet she can leg press with most guys.

Appreciate everyone's advice, opinions and knowledge. Thanks again. I do encourage her not to depend on me or any other guy or girl for knowledge. I know I wouldn't!

@Lucian... I see your point. But she will not skip these shows. In fact I believe firmly that she is top 3 for the Maryland and top 10 for the NA's. She's got that kind of potential minimum!

[sassy69]

Sounds like things are in a reasonably good place. Not knowing what sort of metabolism we're dealing with, conceivably at 23 weeks out, you've got about 7 weeks to work with before a 16 week prep. Var takes about 2 weeks to get going, so this could be a short bulker w/ diet doing the heavy lifting, but keep it a clean bulk to minimize flab gained in the process. The continued var and later stacking in winstrol will support muscle preservation during the cut. If you can throw in some gh, you'd get a little extra umph, but then drop it at 10-14 days out from the target show if there is water retention associated with it. Additonal nolva at 8 weeks out would help w/ the final cut, and if you're really into it, proviron complements the nolva to encourage cutting esp in the mid-section. It is an androgen for sure, but for e.g. 4 weeks it can work well.

[Amazon Doll]

What's wrong with using gear while dieting to preserve hard worked for muscle? it seems thet is where all the hard earned muscle would be compromised.

And what's with all the guy's who are shocked or just want to learn posting in this thread....seems like they should start their own thread about drug abuse with females?

Oh Wait!!! that has been done ad nauseam already on this board









.

[tammyp]

one thing i have learned since being involved in fem chem on this board. answer the questions and dont try and talk someone out of it. (unless its soemthing completely absurd!) i know i speak for jill as well when i say were here to try to educate, not judge.

[lucian]

@Lucian... I see your point. But she will not skip these shows. In fact I believe firmly that she is top 3 for the Maryland and top 10 for the NA's. She's got that kind of potential minimum!

i understand top 3 but why not try and explain top 3 this year,but next year with improvements she will win and be top 5 in the NA. If she didnt get top 5 @ the Arnold the NA are similar. its national show. Not hating on her but if she has potential, then the judges will not say ok she has potential. Its the same judges from the Arnold. Its the National judges.

Maybe blur her face on some pics and see if she will post em up. And we might be able to help her improve, as you know even with the drugs it takes more.

I train one figure girl, has overalls at regional shows (Contra Costa) class wins @ huge state shows(cal state) last year class win @ the Lehigh, and a top 4 at the Arnold. She doesn't even know what the drugs are! She doesn't even know what clen is. How do i know she isnt lying.....i live w her! Its my GF Kari Keenan.

She is a top national contender and local and regional champion. and she does it without anything. So you see how i assumed most figure girls would not need any drugs at all?

[Power Princess Jess]

Sassy, I gotta hand it to you. You're an honest and well spoken writer and woman. Some guys just don't get it. What people decided to do is their own business, however, men and women should be made aware of the "stressors" they're adding to their body. It's a topic that should be discussed by those who deem it necessary.

[sassy69]

Sassy, I gotta hand it to you. You're an honest and well spoken writer and woman. Some guys just don't get it. What people decided to do is their own business, however, men and women should be made aware of the "stressors" they're adding to their body. It's a topic that should be discussed by those who deem it necessary.

Its actually huge - the most common illustration of the stress of dieting & all the stuff associated w/ prep - natural or not, is post-competition syndrome. We see the rebound effect in weight gain/ water retention, mood swing, feeling burnt out or exhausted, but also go get blood work done and see what the impact of the stress & dieting did to your system. Generally it recovers, but its quite dramatic when you look at the internal effects of all of this. Even more dramatic if you look at post-cycle blood work in terms of cholesterol, impact to liver, kidneys, blood pressure, etc.

Literally, ain't nuttin for free.

[lucian]

Im not trying to ruffle any feathers and i tell everyone men and women the same thing. I have male and female friends and I give them all the same advice.

"If you are not placing top 2 in a local and regional class....dont take the drugs" PERIOD! your not gonna make a living off this, you can do well without them, and for gods sake, if you have a family, and you are placing out of the top 5 ESPECIALLY...STOP THE DAMN DRUGS!

So many times i have seen peoples lives torn apart from legal ramifications of drug use while they are looking for a simple plastic trophy.

I understand....you want to be a bodybuilder, you want to be known as one of those people....well look in the mirror. Chances are most people around you already consider you a bodybuilder even if you don't take drugs or compete.

im not looking to bash anyone, but i honestly feel men or woman, if you don't have the genetics the drugs will not help you. They are only going to wear on your body, drain your money, but hopefully you get to keep your life!

I had a good friend, Anthoney D'arezzo. he was a freak! but just couldnt get to the top 5 at a national show. well Anthoney DIED at the Masters nationals a few years ago. AT THE SHOW! Even against doctors orders...he still went through with the show. That opened a lot of eyes, If he couldnt get that pro and he was better than 95% of all of us....then what are we killing ourselves for? Here is a link to his story:

http://www.ergogenics.org/darezzo.html

People please, the drugs arent new, they have been around a long time. They will NOT MAKE YOU A CHAMPION if you dont already have the genetics. Please be careful!

[BB'nMom]

DameDash... you seem to have a good head on your shoulders, and certainly have her best interests at heart. I think that's pretty damn cool.

[Amazon Doll]

Im not trying to ruffle any feathers and i tell everyone men and women the same thing. I have male and female friends and I give them all the same advice.

"If you are not placing top 2 in a local and regional class....dont take the drugs" PERIOD! your not gonna make a living off this, you can do well without them, and for gods sake, if you have a family, and you are placing out of the top 5 ESPECIALLY...STOP THE DAMN DRUGS!

So many times i have seen peoples lives torn apart from legal ramifications of drug use while they are looking for a simple plastic trophy.

I understand....you want to be a bodybuilder, you want to be known as one of those people....well look in the mirror. Chances are most people around you already consider you a bodybuilder even if you don't take drugs or compete.

im not looking to bash anyone, but i honestly feel men or woman, if you don't have the genetics the drugs will not help you. They are only going to wear on your body, drain your money, but hopefully you get to keep your life!

I had a good friend, Anthoney D'arezzo. he was a freak! but just couldnt get to the top 5 at a national show. well Anthoney DIED at the Masters nationals a few years ago. AT THE SHOW! Even against doctors orders...he still went through with the show. That opened a lot of eyes, If he couldnt get that pro and he was better than 95% of all of us....then what are we killing ourselves for? Here is a link to his story:

http://www.ergogenics.org/darezzo.html

People please, the drugs arent new, they have been around a long time. They will NOT MAKE YOU A CHAMPION if you dont already have the genetics. Please be careful!

you are preaching in this girls thread though. Start a thread about what you believe, don't hyjack a thread about specific questions is all I am saying.

[danieleslinger02]

you are preaching in this girls thread though. Start a thread about what you believe, don't hyjack a thread about specific questions is all I am saying.

Dude, People are gonna do what they want to do. I dont think its right to preach because you never know what your gonna place until you get onstage, and lets be real, our main goal, mean and women alike is to be the best we can be. why is he or she going to stop chasing a dream by a couple bad placings. Many of female especially have gone from worst to first in a matter of one show!

[Johnny Phenomenon]

Ok im not here to bust balls or hate on anything that was said. But, gh, stacking all these drugs on a 5 foot 5 frame? really? do most of the figure girls do this?

Decca and test? really? for real, i dont know what figure girls do drug wise. Bbers, yes, but i thought maybe a lil clen or t3 for figure.

Is this why when you see some pros or even top national competitors offseason they look very soft and thick compared to contest time?

like i said no dis respect or anything. Sassy did you used to be on Promuscle?

Lucian

Deca and gh are big for anything with a tumbling routine, at 5 foot 5, she doesn't have a very big frame so the joint/tendon damage when training is probably much higher. I know she's figure and not fitness, but if deca and gh work for her, all the power to her...she's certainly not a minority.

[sassy69]

Ok im not here to bust balls or hate on anything that was said. But, gh, stacking all these drugs on a 5 foot 5 frame? really? do most of the figure girls do this?

"Most" figure girls probably do not do that - var & winstrol, maybe primo. But you still can't make up for no time spent lifting. IMO a huge part of a succuessful cycle and maintenance of gains is having the discipline that already comes from at least a few years of diet & training natually and w/o the cost of getting on stage 5x/year to compete (i.e. time on stage is the goal as opposed to time in the gym to first build the appropriate physique).

Decca and test? really? for real, i dont know what figure girls do drug wise. Bbers, yes, but i thought maybe a lil clen or t3 for figure.

Something to keep in mind w/ any of these newer categories - the money is made on these categories that have lower barriers to entry so they are easier to prep for (i.e don't need the years of discipline in the gym first) and the drive is actually more time on stage - that translates to more money spent on trainers. Who are those trainers ? The same ones who have been in the BB industry for 20 yrs and have learned how to use the full arsenal of what is available - back in the day the typical stack was deca & winstrol or dbol - these were the things easiest to get for the price. So how many girls out there started their path to the dark side w/ helpful guy friend / bf / trainer/ SO saying "here just use this - it will lean you out & tone you up" -- cuz it works for them. Next thing you know there's this exotic and hefty, 6 week stack that you're supposed to run for a figure or bikini show. THAT is how most women would even get the remote idea to use any of this stuff. Its not right, its ignorant, but when you've got guys who have "mastered" it for themselves and an industry that has been going that route for 50 yrs, that's what you have a chance of ending up with.

And THIS is exactly why I continue to say the best thing anyone can do is ASK QUESTIONS - even if you "trust" whoever gave you this stack because "he knows what he's doing and would never hurt me" - even the best intentions can be completely wrong and very dangerous - YOUR body, YOUR results, YOUR sides..... so your decision - get as informed as you can.

Is this why when you see some pros or even top national competitors offseason they look very soft and thick compared to contest time?

I would think this is more a function of bulk vs cut. If someone is running an off-season bulker cycle, it is more likely to have an aromatizing compound in it and they are more likely to be eating to build. Some people take the "off season" thing a little too far and just get sloppy. But it can be as simple as it isn't "on season" and they want a break from the strict dieting and just let it all go. Don't think this necessarily has anything specifically to do w/ "using test and decca" off season for every competitor. It might be a contributor but IMO its more the nature of being the opposite of "on season" and also running protocols (diets with or without AAS) off season, not running any cutters or estrogen blockers since you'd want more to have water in your system than not to build. And maybe they completed a show and rebounded like a bitch and are now hauling around the results. Too broad an observation to simply blame on steroids.

[DameDash]

Excellent post Sassy. I have a problem with this rush to the stage in any division but I understand that money motivates the promoters.

My GF has trained hard & busted her ass for figure since 2007. She just does not have the structure. She is 5'10.5 with great muscular quads, hams & calves! Although she naturally has a tiny, flat waist, she also has a tad bit wider hips & a bit more booty than most upper level figure athletes. She has focused on trying to bring up her upper body as she does not carry the muscle in the shoulders that's needed for figure & she has slightly narrow shoulders. She has brought up her arms and back and delts to some degree but all these structural issues makes her best suited for bikini and as per her coach Nicole Wilkins Lee. Not to mention the fact as a Type I Diabetic & super health conscious she would not use any meds not prescribed.

I really appreciate all the ladies contributions on this forum. It is good to see! Thanks!

[sassy69]

Excellent post Sassy. I have a problem with this rush to the stage in any division but I understand that money motivates the promoters.

My GF has trained hard & busted her ass for figure since 2007. She just does not have the structure. She is 5'10.5 with great muscular quads, hams & calves! Although she naturally has a tiny, flat waist, she also has a tad bit wider hips & a bit more booty than most upper level figure athletes. She has focused on trying to bring up her upper body as she does not carry the muscle in the shoulders that's needed for figure & she has slightly narrow shoulders. She has brought up her arms and back and delts to some degree but all these structural issues makes her best suited for bikini and as per her coach Nicole Wilkins Lee. Not to mention the fact as a Type I Diabetic & super health conscious she would not use any meds not prescribed.

I really appreciate all the ladies contributions on this forum. It is good to see! Thanks!

Best of luck w/ upcoming shows!