Cabergoline

GameofInches · 05-08-2011, 02:45 PM

Hey Doc,

Are there any negative health effects to taking Dostinex (cabergoline) for long periods of time? I know it is a dopamine agonist, but will prolonged use make one dependent on it? Thank you!

**Dr. Joel Nathan** · 05-12-2011, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by GameofInches

Hey Doc,

Are there any negative health effects to taking Dostinex (cabergoline) for long periods of time? I know it is a dopamine agonist, but will prolonged use make one dependent on it? Thank you!

Yes, there are side effects.
Cabergoline tablets are contraindicated in patients with

Uncontrolled hypertension or known hypersensitivity to ergot derivatives.
History of pulmonary, pericardial, cardiac valvular, or retroperitoneal fibrotic disorders .
There are some medications that are harmful if taken with cabergoline.
There are particular issues with not prescribing this to women who are pregnant or considering pregnancy.

Cabergoline is not a controlled substance and has not (yet) show to be addictive. The operative work is "yet", consult with your doc before taking this regarding any addiction or withdrawal potential in your particular case.

GameofInches · 05-12-2011, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Joel Nathan

Yes, there are side effects.

Cabergoline tablets are contraindicated in patients with

Uncontrolled hypertension or known hypersensitivity to ergot derivatives.
History of pulmonary, pericardial, cardiac valvular, or retroperitoneal fibrotic disorders .
There are some medications that are harmful if taken with cabergoline.
There are particular issues with not prescribing this to women who are pregnant or considering pregnancy.

Cabergoline is not a controlled substance and has not (yet) show to be addictive. The operative work is "yet", consult with your doc before taking this regarding any addiction or withdrawal potential in your particular case.

Wow, so are you saying that it could be addictive?

**Dr. Joel Nathan** · 05-14-2011, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by GameofInches

Wow, so are you saying that it could be addictive?

It has ben seen in the past with other drugs (eg Talwin) that originally are marketed as non-addictive that later are shown to be habit forming. So the"yet" means that as of now it is not addictive.

GameofInches · 05-14-2011, 05:37 PM

That's interesting to know, thanks for the info Doc!

**J-SWOL187** · 07-13-2011, 12:43 PM

how is it used with parkinson's patients? ..or is it? Parkinson's runs in my family and I want to know if use of this would induce parkinson's at an earlier age. Thanks in advance for any info on this.

**Dr. Joel Nathan** · 07-20-2011, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by J-SWOL187

how is it used with Parkinson's patients? ..or is it? Parkinson's runs in my family and I want to know if use of this would induce parkinson's at an earlier age. Thanks in advance for any info on this.

Yes is has been used to help motor fluctuations in Parkinson's disease, but it is not a primary treatment. There is nothing to say that it would INDUCE Parkinson's disease.

**Joshua H** · 08-20-2011, 09:57 AM

I just got a script for this myself to help with hyperprolactinemia. Taken 2x a week for 4 months to supress prolactin and then indirectly allow my T levels to come back up (I hope!)

Started yesterday.

**Joshua H** · 09-24-2011, 09:47 AM

After one month on cabergoline (1 dose every monday and friday) my prolactin levels went from 23 (high) to 3 (very low). I had no side effects at all during this one month of use. Sadly the suppressed prolactin did not bring up my T levels as was the goal. I went from 517 total to 492 total T in one month. My doc is supposed to be contacting me to decide what we do from this point on.

Since April to now my T went from 535 to the 492 which is a 9% drop in less then 1 year at age 27. He does not like the rate of drop in total T more then anything. We corrected for diet, sleep, training, supplements, stress etc to assure it was not any of those factors causing the drop. It seems to be purely physiological/endocrine based at this time.

**toxic Avenger** · 09-24-2011, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Joshua H

After one month on cabergoline (1 dose every monday and friday) my prolactin levels went from 23 (high) to 3 (very low). I had no side effects at all during this one month of use. Sadly the suppressed prolactin did not bring up my T levels as was the goal. I went from 517 total to 492 total T in one month. My doc is supposed to be contacting me to decide what we do from this point on.

Since April to now my T went from 535 to the 492 which is a 9% drop in less then 1 year at age 27. He does not like the rate of drop in total T more then anything. We corrected for diet, sleep, training, supplements, stress etc to assure it was not any of those factors causing the drop. It seems to be purely physiological/endocrine based at this time.

Testosterone levels are a moving target. That "drop" is most likely not significant.

**Joshua H** · 09-25-2011, 01:36 PM

Total T has diurnal variations yes. Peaking in the early morning and hitting its low point just before bedtime in adult men.

The flux is around 710 ng/dl (peak) and 426ng/dl (low) when measured at 8am and 10pm in a group of 45 men ages 30-35 years. (Archives of Family Medicine 1999; 8)

I had my labs taken at around 8am in fasted state for each of 3 blood draws. Thus to have dropped 9% under the same sample conditions in 9 months at my age and with my lifestyle does not fit well with what my doctor expects to see, nor I for that matter.

Not mention that my peak values are now closer to the daily low most adult men have (compared to this study) which means my true 24 hour low could be around 300 ng/dl if that.

Certainly reason for some concerns at my age and lifestyle. Nor do I use any kind of AAS or have I.

**cloclock** · 10-01-2011, 05:12 PM

take now!

Clomid is a fertility drug, used to stimulate FSH and LH production and hereby the ovaries to produce eggs in ovarian disorders.

**toxic Avenger** · 10-01-2011, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Joshua H

Total T has diurnal variations yes. Peaking in the early morning and hitting its low point just before bedtime in adult men.

The flux is around 710 ng/dl (peak) and 426ng/dl (low) when measured at 8am and 10pm in a group of 45 men ages 30-35 years. (Archives of Family Medicine 1999; 8)

I had my labs taken at around 8am in fasted state for each of 3 blood draws. Thus to have dropped 9% under the same sample conditions in 9 months at my age and with my lifestyle does not fit well with what my doctor expects to see, nor I for that matter.

Not mention that my peak values are now closer to the daily low most adult men have (compared to this study) which means my true 24 hour low could be around 300 ng/dl if that.

Certainly reason for some concerns at my age and lifestyle. Nor do I use any kind of AAS or have I.

You are so over intepreting your results I don't really want to respond to this. Your logic is flawed. The test itself likely has more than 9% error not to mention inter-operator error, intermediate percision etc. Look if you want to go on TRT then do it but don' t blow smoke up your own ass and mine. I worked in clinical chemistry.

**Joshua H** · 10-02-2011, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by toxic Avenger

You are so over intepreting your results I don't really want to respond to this. Your logic is flawed. The test itself likely has more than 9% error not to mention inter-operator error, intermediate percision etc. Look if you want to go on TRT then do it but don' t blow smoke up your own ass and mine. I worked in clinical chemistry.

Nixon worked in the oval office to, that don't mean he was good at it...

The numbers are what they are and I feel without question my doctor is working in my best interest. I do not want to go on any HRT at all. Not at my age now. Doing so means the likely outcome of a lifetime on them based on his predictions. I will do all I can to stay off HRT as well.

As of now it looks like were going 3 more months Cabergoline since it did drop my levels of prolactin from 23 to 3 in 1 month. The fastest drop he has seen with the drug in that time. With more time this should lift the suppressive effects on T and all is well after that.

**Dr. Joel Nathan** · 10-03-2011, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Joshua H

Nixon worked in the oval office to, that don't mean he was good at it...

The numbers are what they are and I feel without question my doctor is working in my best interest. I do not want to go on any HRT at all. Not at my age now. Doing so means the likely outcome of a lifetime on them based on his predictions. I will do all I can to stay off HRT as well.

As of now it looks like were going 3 more months Cabergoline since it did drop my levels of prolactin from 23 to 3 in 1 month. The fastest drop he has seen with the drug in that time. With more time this should lift the suppressive effects on T and all is well after that.

Joshua,
Your case is complex. It would be best to sort it out with your health care provider as well as with an endocrinologist.
Regards,
Joel Nathan, MD

**Joshua H** · 10-05-2011, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Joel Nathan

Joshua,
Your case is complex. It would be best to sort it out with your health care provider as well as with an endocrinologist.
Regards,
Joel Nathan, MD

I have never needed nor asked for a referral to a specialist before. Is this something I pursue on my own or would I ask my primary doc to refer me to a endocrinologist?

**Dr. Joel Nathan** · 10-09-2011, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Joshua H

I have never needed nor asked for a referral to a specialist before. Is this something I pursue on my own or would I ask my primary doc to refer me to a endocrinologist?

Your primary care doc would refer you. The primary would know which endocrinologist he found was knowledgeable and helpful.

**GarlicChicken** · 10-12-2011, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Joshua H

I have never needed nor asked for a referral to a specialist before. Is this something I pursue on my own or would I ask my primary doc to refer me to a endocrinologist?

Joshua, have you underwent clomid therapy with your doc? I ask this because it seems to be the number one method of treating HPTA supression...used in conjunction with the caber it might just do the trick. I would talk to your doctor about it. Hope you come out on top with this issue man.

**Dr. Joel Nathan** · 10-19-2011, 05:44 PM

Why the interest in Cabergoline?
Cabergoline will decrease prolactin levels. Since prolactin is secreted post orgasm, it inhibits a second orgasm from happening until the refractory period is over. If you lower prolactin, the refractory period between orgasms is decreased.

**Joshua H** · 11-28-2011, 09:55 AM

1st Test Pre-Dostinex (Caber)

2nd Test 4 months Post-Dostinex (Caber)

So as we see here my prolactin levels did in fact drop down to the levels we wanted them to. A good thing of course. I was at 23ng/ml and not am under 3ng/ml. The drug worked well in that I got these outcomes in just under 5 months.

The REALLY shitty part is that my T levels both total and free have dropped BIG time in the same 5 months.

As you can see I went from 517ng/dl to 260ng/dl with both tests taken at the same lab, same time of day under the same fasted conditions. No differences in diet, cardio or training has taken place between tests either to confound the outcomes I can think of.

I have a follow up with my doc to discuss these numbers and our game plan on the 5th of Dec. I am curious as hell to learn his suggestions since the drug worked by my T also dropped which was the opposite effect we wanted from lowering Prolactin levels....?

I should note my libido has been shit the past 3 weeks or so as well which is not normal for me at all to put it simply.

This is really upsetting for a guy busting ass to gain even a little muscle each year. As an ecto don't I have it hard enough!!??

**Joshua H** · 12-05-2011, 11:46 PM

Today after a good long talk with my doctor we decided that Clomid would be an option suitable for my situation. However the possible side effects (nausea when taken, possible burnout due to leydig cell overstimulation and downregulation) did make it a less attractive option. That said he advised (with an endocrinologist consult) that starting me on test-cyp would be the best bet. We decided to go 300mg 1x per week for 3 weeks. We will retest in 8 weeks to see where my labs are then in hopes that my T levels are around 500-600 range or even a bit higher.

So as of today I had to make a big decision since I have not ever, prior to today never taken anything even close to a prohormone let alone full blown T injections.

I think any healthy, active 27 year old make who works as a strength and conditioning specialist with a T level of 260ng/dl would be willing and eager to get on a therapeutic dosing protocol as that's just damn well sad levels if you ask me.

**juiceinator3000** · 12-05-2011, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Joshua H

Today after a good long talk with my doctor we decided that Clomid would be an option suitable for my situation. However the possible side effects (nausea when taken, possible burnout due to leydig cell overstimulation and downregulation) did make it a less attractive option. That said he advised (with an endocrinologist consult) that starting me on test-cyp would be the best bet. We decided to go 300mg 1x per week for 3 weeks. We will retest in 8 weeks to see where my labs are then in hopes that my T levels are around 500-600 range or even a bit higher.

So as of today I had to make a big decision since I have not ever, prior to today never taken anything even close to a prohormone let alone full blown T injections.

I think any healthy, active 27 year old make who works as a strength and conditioning specialist with a T level of 260ng/dl would be willing and eager to get on a therapeutic dosing protocol as that's just damn well sad levels if you ask me.

300mg/week should put you well over 5-600ng/dl. I bet they end up lowering the dose on you eventually. You're lucky to get that dose, 200 is relatively standard and shitty docs prescribe 200 every 2 weeks.

**Anabolic77** · 12-06-2011, 12:31 AM

So what's the point of this drug. To lower gyno and you can cum more often?

**catthetrainer** · 12-06-2011, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by Anabolic77

So what's the point of this drug. To lower gyno and you can cum more often?

thats exactly what it sounds like to me lolol

**Joshua H** · 12-07-2011, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by juiceinator3000

300mg/week should put you well over 5-600ng/dl. I bet they end up lowering the dose on you eventually. You're lucky to get that dose, 200 is relatively standard and shitty docs prescribe 200 every 2 weeks.

My bad......its actually 300mg every 3 weeks for now. He feels that due to my higher then normal metabolism we may need to do 300mg every 2 weeks for the first month and then 200mg every 2 weeks after that. I am supposed to follow up in 10 days to let him know exactly how I feel in reference to strength, energy, vigor, libido and recovery. That will let him decide if I need another injection 2 weeks from the first or 3 weeks.

I am pushing through a nasty ass head cold right now so any benefits now are being masked by a head full of mucus and a throat raw to the bone plus a mildly suppressed immune system. Been 48 hours since the first dose as of this writing so will see where things go here on out.

**Joshua H** · 01-09-2012, 06:37 PM

So I got my first 2 T injections (enathate) at 300mg each. One Dec 5th and one Dec 20th. My levels just prior to this were 260ng/dl for total T. Pretty damn low yes.

I went back in on Friday for follow up to these 2 injections to see where I was at and how I was responding. My weight had stabilized but not gone up much from the 192 I was at just prior to HRT started. My levels now are 216ng/dl. Mind you my SHBG is right where it was both times so no changes there. % free T is the same but total has dropped (it also dropped from 532 to 460 to 260 in 6 months time with little change in sleep, diet or training). So this leads me to my purpose in this post.

My doc is going to put me at 400mg every 3 weeks as of tomorrow in hopes this gets the levels up. My concern is weather or not I should still be training balls out with T levels in the freaking low 200's at 27 years old and healthy!?

I lift 4 days a week powerlifter like for about 90 minutes. I do 3 HIIT sessions for 25 minutes on my rest days. I eat no less then 3000 calories a day even on rest days or even when super busy at work. I push for 4000 most days I can feasible find the time to do so. I sleep 7-8 hours a night with maybe 1 night less then 6 hours pending work needs.

I rarely drink, dont smoke, dont do drugs, never did pro hormones etc.

I am prepping for my 2nd ever powerlifting meet on Feb 4th right now and so far so good with my maxes going up week to week but my weight is struggling like hell to hold at 195 (used to be right around 205ish back in spring 2010)

Would it be better to just back off a bit or drop to 3 workouts a week? Drop out cardio? Can you even build any real muscle with T levels around 200ng/dl?

Thoughts?

**juiceinator3000** · 01-09-2012, 06:48 PM

Your doctor is a retard. By the time you take your bloodwork there is no testosterone left in you. Tell him he needs to dose you weekly, ideally twice a week with cypionate. Unless he wants to ruin your life.

**juiceinator3000** · 01-09-2012, 06:50 PM

You seriously need to tell him to read on hrt. He's gonna fuck you up with injections 15 days apart.

**GarlicChicken** · 01-09-2012, 07:12 PM

So you're saying you are getting cyp injections every 3 weeks? That's retarded. 2 weeks at the maximum. Your levels are fluctuating, that's probably why you keep testing low. I would imaging you are getting blood drawn right at the end of the three weeks? That would make perfect sense that your levels are coming back low. At 100/week you should come back somewhere in the normal range. Maybe low, but still normal. Try to get your doc to do at least biweekly injections. He should understand that cypionate has a half life of I believe about 16 days...don't quote me on that, but its much shorter than three weeks.

**squatilupuke** · 01-09-2012, 08:01 PM

Since this is a dopamine agonist, would it have adverse sides in someone with mild tourette's?

**GarlicChicken** · 01-09-2012, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by juiceinator3000

You seriously need to tell him to read on hrt. He's gonna fuck you up with injections 15 days apart.

Exactly. You're gonna have such bad highs and lows you're gonna be fucked up. Biweekly is best, but weekly would cut it. Even every other is better than what you have now.

**juiceinator3000** · 01-09-2012, 08:18 PM

No he's currently on eow injects. 15 days in between. Still, bloods would show drastic changes if he didn't get checked when there was 0 exogenous test in him.

**GarlicChicken** · 01-09-2012, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by juiceinator3000

No he's currently on eow injects. 15 days in between. Still, bloods would show drastic changes if he didn't get checked when there was 0 exogenous test in him.

Oh yeah I misread. Yeah, EOW sucks. I'd push for at least every week for sure.

**Joshua H** · 01-10-2012, 04:04 PM

Sorry gang my mistake. I got 1 injection November 21st at 300mg, then the 5th at 300mg and then the 20th at 300mg. So 2 weeks, then 3 weeks spacing from injection to injection. Today being my 3rd one. Today was 400mg however. I note its not cypionoate I am getting. Its enathate I have been getting.

If this does not bring them up at my next lab reading I am asking to see a specialist ASAP. In fact I meet with my doc face to face again on the 30th so will see what he says then I guess?

**GarlicChicken** · 01-10-2012, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Joshua H

Sorry gang my mistake. I got 1 injection November 21st at 300mg, then the 5th at 300mg and then the 20th at 300mg. So 2 weeks, then 3 weeks spacing from injection to injection. Today being my 3rd one. Today was 400mg however. I note its not cypionoate I am getting. Its enathate I have been getting.

If this does not bring them up at my next lab reading I am asking to see a specialist ASAP. In fact I meet with my doc face to face again on the 30th so will see what he says then I guess?

Dude with enan you need bare minimum every week. You need to talk to him about that for sure.