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  1. #5221
    GYM RAT gottabecool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAVIDHARDY View Post
    I make koolaid with liquid sweetner or stevia and put it in ice trays. Freeze it and make popsicles.
    I used syntrax nectar protein to do the same thing

  2. #5222
    GYM RAT JamalH's Avatar
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    Wow, gonna try that.

    Cheers bro

  3. #5223
    GYM RAT JamalH's Avatar
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    Just realized something i have been using for 3 weeks has fucking Sorbitol..

    Not allowed on keto hey?

  4. #5224
    PENCILNECK JocelynL's Avatar
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    Keto refeed:
    Looking for advice on refeed meal! Not interested in feeling like crap or falling off the wagon after crap loading (have read lots of your horror stories out there). Bf got choc chip eggos for his but that doesn't sound appealing to me at all. Im actually afraid to refeed but I know it's what ur supposed to do. (4 weeks out from first national competition)

    Thinking 50g of carbs made of pasta/marinara sauce. Is this a good refeed? and if yes, white or wheat pasta?

  5. #5225
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAVIDHARDY View Post
    I make koolaid with liquid sweetner or stevia and put it in ice trays. Freeze it and make popsicles.
    Wow im gunna try this!!!..so hungry

  6. #5226
    RX MEMBER Bona fide's Avatar
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    hey Dave

    I just made a grocery store run..gunna try and really tighten up the diet.

    I bought some pecan halves as u suggested. How many do you have per meal and how many times per day bro? Ive been having 2TBS of Natty PB w/ each meal.

    I also got some cashews..are those good fats instead of natty PB too?

    Thanks a ton

    BF

  7. #5227
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    how much cardio on keto I hear dave got his clients on 3 hours a day

  8. #5228
    GYM RAT JamalH's Avatar
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    I think Dave recommends you stop at 2 hours a day, not sure thought better ask him

  9. #5229
    GYM RAT JamalH's Avatar
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    What do you guys reckon about the Waldon Farms sauces on keto?

  10. #5230
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamalH View Post
    What do you guys reckon about the Waldon Farms sauces on keto?
    I think it has splenda in it, which Dave doesn't recommend...same reason I don't eat the sugar free jello ...I only use stevia

  11. #5231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bona fide View Post
    I think it has splenda in it, which Dave doesn't recommend...same reason I don't eat the sugar free jello ...I only use stevia
    It's not the "splenda" that is the culprit, it's the maltodextrin in the splenda. Sucralose is the sweetener in splenda, but it's the maltodextrin that gives you the calories.

  12. #5232
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAVIDHARDY View Post
    It's not the "splenda" that is the culprit, it's the maltodextrin in the splenda. Sucralose is the sweetener in splenda, but it's the maltodextrin that gives you the calories.
    ahhhh okay i see...cool thanks

  13. #5233
    GYM RAT PDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocelynL View Post
    Keto refeed:
    Looking for advice on refeed meal! Not interested in feeling like crap or falling off the wagon after crap loading (have read lots of your horror stories out there). Bf got choc chip eggos for his but that doesn't sound appealing to me at all. Im actually afraid to refeed but I know it's what ur supposed to do. (4 weeks out from first national competition)

    Thinking 50g of carbs made of pasta/marinara sauce. Is this a good refeed? and if yes, white or wheat pasta?
    That depends but unless you're 3yrs old, I doubt a 50g refeed will do anything for you.

    Try low fat bagels/muffins 200-400g, one bagel might be 50g carbs, eat one or two with each of the 3-4 meals PWO, simple and effective.

    A stack which really reduces the bloat and negative effects from 1000g for me is:

    300mg ZINC through the refeed (50 X 6)

    500-1000mg R-ALA*

    1,000 IU natural vitamin E

    3g Vitamin C (500 X 6)

    2 tabs Zypan (betaine hcl and some animal compounds (pancreas extract, etc..)

  14. #5234
    PENCILNECK JocelynL's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by PDG View Post
    That depends but unless you're 3yrs old, I doubt a 50g refeed will do anything for you.

    Try low fat bagels/muffins 200-400g, one bagel might be 50g carbs, eat one or two with each of the 3-4 meals PWO, simple and effective.

    A stack which really reduces the bloat and negative effects from 1000g for me is:

    300mg ZINC through the refeed (50 X 6)

    500-1000mg R-ALA*

    1,000 IU natural vitamin E

    3g Vitamin C (500 X 6)

    2 tabs Zypan (betaine hcl and some animal compounds (pancreas extract, etc..)

    Thanks for the info prodigy. I refed with Olive Garden. Split a white noodle pasta with marinara and roasted chicken into 2 meals and had a total of 3 breadsticks between the two.
    I am still trying to lose muscle mass so i wanted to keep my overall carbs/cals low (thats why the initial 50g) but I also wanted the refeed to do its thing...didnt measure carbs last night but i feel like i had enough. Im not feeling like crap but my energy also isnt back and not really sure what was supposed to happen but i dont feel/look tighter or softer...we shall see.

    I am less than 4 weeks out and nervous about muffins, bagels, etc...even regretting the pasta just bc of flour. Thinking next week will be a bowl of fruit and some oatmeal (pretty limited on the excitement factor I know...but those are the two things im craving)

  15. #5235
    GYM RAT PDG's Avatar
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    From experience, fruit and oatmeal suck for the purposes of a refeed.

    Nothing happened with your refeed because 1-) It might've been too low to accomplish anything 2-) Your cals are too low where a refeed wouldn't offset the negative effects.

    Are you still training?

    Copy your 2 posts and paste them in one or both of these threads:

    http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthrea...t=5748&page=16 (ScoobySnacks)

    http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthrea...t=6224&page=12 (Ken "Skip" Hill)

  16. #5236
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocelynL View Post
    Thanks for the info prodigy. I refed with Olive Garden. Split a white noodle pasta with marinara and roasted chicken into 2 meals and had a total of 3 breadsticks between the two.
    I am still trying to lose muscle mass so i wanted to keep my overall carbs/cals low (thats why the initial 50g) but I also wanted the refeed to do its thing...didnt measure carbs last night but i feel like i had enough. Im not feeling like crap but my energy also isnt back and not really sure what was supposed to happen but i dont feel/look tighter or softer...we shall see.

    I am less than 4 weeks out and nervous about muffins, bagels, etc...even regretting the pasta just bc of flour. Thinking next week will be a bowl of fruit and some oatmeal (pretty limited on the excitement factor I know...but those are the two things im craving)

    Are you trying to make a lower class, or did you mis-type.

  17. #5237
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    Hey guys,

    I just got done reading the entire thread over the past week or two. There was a lot of great information here. I have not done a full blown keto diet for around a year and a half, however, I rarely broke the 100-150 carbs per day mark since I don't respond that well to carb based diets (except on refeeds/cheats).

    I decided to try and drop my set point from my 12-15% mark to 8-10%. Last time I did keto I dropped the cals way to fast and had nowhere to go and burned out a lot, so I am taking it very slow now. Here is my diet:

    meal 1 2scoops+ 2 TBSP peanut butter, 4 fish oil (6.5 net carb)



    meal 2 50g whey with 1 TBSP olive oil and 2 TBSP ground flax (4.5 net carb)



    meal 3 7oz of chicken with 1/3 cup raw almonds (2-3 net carb)



    meal 4 50g whey with 1 TBSP olive oil and 2 TBSP ground flax (4.5 net carb)

    meal 5 8 oz ground turkey 2 cups broccoli with 6 fish oil (4 net carb)

    meal 6 5 whole omega-3 eggs, 2.25 ounces of chicken, 2 fish oil (2.5 net carb)



    I do 10 grams of aminos preworkout with a dose of ECY (only once a day now),




    I only do cardio on Sundays for 1 hour of incline walking. I train heavy 6 days a week in the 3-8 rep range. I train more for powerlifting/strength than bodybuilding. I am 5'10", 24 years old, 12-14% BF. Lifts: Squat-low 500s, Bench-upper 300s, Deadlift- low 600s


    This is my second week on pure keto (before I only had carbs before workouts and at breakfast). I lowered the cals a little since I only lost a lb last week. I forgot about the two week initiation phase and did a cheat meal last weekend, but since I have basically been low carbin for the past couple years I don't think its that big of a deal. I am planning on starting out with a cheat meal once a week and maybe progressing to a longer low fat refeed as I lean up.


    Does this sound reasonable?


    You guys are a wealth of information. Thanks for the help.

  18. #5238
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    Sorry, bodyweight is 206lbs first thing in the morning. Thanks again

  19. #5239
    PENCILNECK JocelynL's Avatar
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    Prodigy...yes, still training. AM: 15 min cardio, giant set, 10 min cardio, giant set, 15 min cardio. (this split gives me the fastest results in dropping fat) Mon-legs, Tues: Shoulders, Weds: Hams and glutes, Thurs: Back and arms, Fri: Glutes. PM: 40 min cardio.

    Dave...not a typo, I made the switch from figure to bikini...(I know, I know but please dont dismiss me for not being a bb) I have pretty thick quads and am trying to bring them down. I quit leg training for a year and focused more on upper body...i am very proportional now but I was still trying to grow for figure until Southern States. I did very well but i am a hard gainer and have realized that although i like how i come in, I am just bigger than my competition (hasn't hurt me in the past but im not comfortable with it). I spend my off season at 135 (like to call it sympathy weight gain from my post show bb bf) I step in stage at 123 and i know that i need to work on maintaining but i still need to bring the muscularity down a notch.

    Diet wise...carbs kill me. If i look at them I gain 5lbs in my thighs. I figured I would try keto for a week but after tightening up pretty fast i have decided that im just going to stay pretty to close to those rules even off season.

    an update to yesterday: I didnt wake up tighter like i normally do after a carb up but when the afternoon rolled around I was tighter and fuller in my upper body.

    here is a link to SoStates pics...judges told me not to change a thing physically but personally i would still like to cut about 3lbs off my thighs.


    http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/index.php?mode=browse&id=18322&eventcode=1398

    i know that low carb diets work for me so I am just trying to incorporate them correctly...long term I will be able to see how my body adapts and what works but Im just over 3 weeks out and dont have much wiggle room.

    Thank you guys

  20. #5240
    GYM RAT PDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajweins View Post
    Hey guys,

    I just got done reading the entire thread over the past week or two. There was a lot of great information here. I have not done a full blown keto diet for around a year and a half, however, I rarely broke the 100-150 carbs per day mark since I don't respond that well to carb based diets (except on refeeds/cheats).

    I decided to try and drop my set point from my 12-15% mark to 8-10%. Last time I did keto I dropped the cals way to fast and had nowhere to go and burned out a lot, so I am taking it very slow now. Here is my diet:

    meal 1 2scoops+ 2 TBSP peanut butter, 4 fish oil (6.5 net carb)



    meal 2 50g whey with 1 TBSP olive oil and 2 TBSP ground flax (4.5 net carb)



    meal 3 7oz of chicken with 1/3 cup raw almonds (2-3 net carb)



    meal 4 50g whey with 1 TBSP olive oil and 2 TBSP ground flax (4.5 net carb)

    meal 5 8 oz ground turkey 2 cups broccoli with 6 fish oil (4 net carb)

    meal 6 5 whole omega-3 eggs, 2.25 ounces of chicken, 2 fish oil (2.5 net carb)



    I do 10 grams of aminos preworkout with a dose of ECY (only once a day now),




    I only do cardio on Sundays for 1 hour of incline walking. I train heavy 6 days a week in the 3-8 rep range. I train more for powerlifting/strength than bodybuilding. I am 5'10", 24 years old, 12-14% BF. Lifts: Squat-low 500s, Bench-upper 300s, Deadlift- low 600s


    This is my second week on pure keto (before I only had carbs before workouts and at breakfast). I lowered the cals a little since I only lost a lb last week. I forgot about the two week initiation phase and did a cheat meal last weekend, but since I have basically been low carbin for the past couple years I don't think its that big of a deal. I am planning on starting out with a cheat meal once a week and maybe progressing to a longer low fat refeed as I lean up.


    Does this sound reasonable?


    You guys are a wealth of information. Thanks for the help.
    -Make sure 2tbs of PB or any fat is 2tbs 28g, not more.

    -Try to get more real food in, instead of 50/50.

    -Why 12 fish oil caps? are they 1g each? All you need is 5g.

    -If you're cheat meal is around 1000-2000 calories, do a 250-500g low fat 5 hour refeed, comes out to 5-10 blueberry bagels or 12- 24 fig newtons.

  21. #5241
    GYM RAT PDG's Avatar
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    -Why so much training? If you're training for strength, high volume is not needed, neither are isolation exercises. I lift weights for strength & definition only, I train 3-4 X week, 1 hr each session, 1-5 reps.

    If your strength is the same or improving, don't change anything.

    -How much protein/fat/carbs/calories do you average per day?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDG View Post
    -Why so much training? If you're training for strength, high volume is not needed, neither are isolation exercises. I lift weights for strength & definition only, I train 3-4 X week, 1 hr each session, 1-5 reps.

    If your strength is the same or improving, don't change anything.

    -How much protein/fat/carbs/calories do you average per day?
    My strength is not decreasing. My training works for me. I normally only do 3 (at most 4) movements a day and hit my numbers and get out. I enjoy training this way so I will stick with it for now.

    Prior to the diet, I was getting around 300-350 grams of pro, 150-250grams of carbs, and 150 grams of fat per day.

    I guess I after reading the thread and seeing how big frosty was on fish oil I assumed it was probably the best source of extra fats to go with. And I am still in graduate school without an income and need to keep things as cheap as possible which I why I go with so many shakes. I know its not idea, but since I commute (don't have a place to cook) to school and am there all day the shakes are just convenient.

    Thanks for the help.

  23. #5243
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    I just realized you probably wanted to know my macros for the current diet...

    I have adjusted it a little as I plugged the numbers into a formula myth recommended and took a little out...so heres what its looking like now:

    meal 1 2scoops+ 1.5 TBSP peanut butter, 4 fish oil
    meal 2 48g whey with 1 TBSP olive oil and 2 TBSP ground flax

    meal 3 6oz of chicken with 1/3 cup raw almonds
    meal 4 50g whey with 1 TBSP olive oil and 2 TBSP ground flax

    meal 5 8 oz ground turkey 1 cup broccoli with 6 fish oil

    meal 6 4 whole omega-3 eggs, 2.25 ounces of chicken, 2 fish oil

    278pro 140 fat, 2800 cals

  24. #5244
    GYM RAT JamalH's Avatar
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    I just read about why Dave doesnt like Stimulants whilst on keto.

    Its got do with sparing the muscle?

    Did i just fuck myself considering ive been drinking sugar free V for 3 weeks?...

  25. #5245
    RX MEMBER Bona fide's Avatar
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    Hey guys...every once in a while I will have to attend a business lunch or something like that where we are taken out to eat. If I know a week or so in advance, I will skip my my Saturday cheat and use the lunch meeting as my cheat meal. So I go about 10days Keto instead of 7. Then I don't cheat the following weekend either..so its another 10 days or so until I cheat again and get back in the weekly cheats. Is this the best way to go about this?

    BF

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    GYM RAT JamalH's Avatar
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    I wouldn't go that long personally.

    Every Sunday like clockwork for me.

  27. #5247
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamalH View Post
    I wouldn't go that long personally.

    Every Sunday like clockwork for me.
    Yea I usually do once a week, but say you knew you HAD to eat a cheat meal on Wednesday. Would you skip the Sunday cheat or just cheat Sunday and Wednesday bro?

  28. #5248
    GYM RAT JamalH's Avatar
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    Personally id just cheat on Sunday as normal and have my own lunch.

    I like structure being organized haha, thats just me.

  29. #5249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bona fide View Post
    Yea I usually do once a week, but say you knew you HAD to eat a cheat meal on Wednesday. Would you skip the Sunday cheat or just cheat Sunday and Wednesday bro?
    Skip it unless you're really lean.

  30. #5250
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAVIDHARDY View Post
    Skip it unless you're really lean.
    cool thanks! Tomorrow is a luncheon put on by a therapy clinic where they will be doing a presentation and "feeding us"...didn't wanna be an ass with my Tupperware

  31. #5251
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    Hey David, Venom or Hyperdrive by ALRI, which one is better?

  32. #5252
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    Hey Guys i really need some help here. im on my 17th week of keto and am having trouble losing what fat is left. i have been doing pro/fat, pro/veg days for the last 7 weeks as i needed to speed things up and they did a lot but have now seemed to stop working. I am up to 3x 50 minute cardio sessions a day. in total i have lost 46lbs in the last 17 weeks. i am currently 4 weeks out and am having trouble ridding these last bits of fat. Starting to really get me as i am dieting and training my ass off!. What can i change with the diet to help speed things up again? Thanks heaps!

  33. #5253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeraisa View Post
    Hey Guys i really need some help here. im on my 17th week of keto and am having trouble losing what fat is left. i have been doing pro/fat, pro/veg days for the last 7 weeks as i needed to speed things up and they did a lot but have now seemed to stop working. I am up to 3x 50 minute cardio sessions a day. in total i have lost 46lbs in the last 17 weeks. i am currently 4 weeks out and am having trouble ridding these last bits of fat. Starting to really get me as i am dieting and training my ass off!. What can i change with the diet to help speed things up again? Thanks heaps!
    Do a small cheat meal or refeed depending on how lean you are.

  34. #5254
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    Quote Originally Posted by rboy6699 View Post
    Hey David, Venom or Hyperdrive by ALRI, which one is better?

    I never had venom, but I like Hyperdrive a lot. I use it every now and then for a pick me up.

  35. #5255
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    Hello, i am new to the forum. I am 25, 5'9 225 and about 20% bf. I started daves diet 2 weeks ago becuase i plan on doing a show in 22 weeks, and i figure i need more time since i am a natty. I am sticking to his 200lb diet, however i was wonder about fish oil, how much and when to take it? Also since i am pretty smooth should i do a refeed or cheat meal and how big of a cheat or how long of a refeed? Also am am going to try true protein from your experiance what flavor taste best mixed in water?

    thanks Zak

  36. #5256
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    Dave what do think are the best green veggies? I am eating green beans, but I know they aren't optimal

  37. #5257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bona fide View Post
    Dave what do think are the best green veggies? I am eating green beans, but I know they aren't optimal

    I cant go past brocolli

  38. #5258
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVBG View Post
    I cant go past brocolli
    sweet one more thing while im at it if ya don't mind bro...how many almonds should I be eating w/ my nut meals?..ive been eating 40 w/ each one, but i see most don't eat that many i don't think. Weighing in at 202

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bona fide View Post
    sweet one more thing while im at it if ya don't mind bro...how many almonds should I be eating w/ my nut meals?..ive been eating 40 w/ each one, but i see most don't eat that many i don't think. Weighing in at 202

    40 may be on the high side, how many would you fit in a cup?

  40. #5260
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVBG View Post
    40 may be on the high side, how many would you fit in a cup?
    haha damn ill have to go measure it out..i think i hear most go 1/4 cup...i was checking David's keto thread and saw he was eating 28/day. So im thinking there is no way my macros should be higher than his.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bona fide View Post
    haha damn ill have to go measure it out..i think i hear most go 1/4 cup...i was checking David's keto thread and saw he was eating 28/day. So im thinking there is no way my macros should be higher than his.
    I usually have a handful if it's any indication of the amount.

  42. #5262
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVBG View Post
    I usually have a handful if it's any indication of the amount.
    okay cool bro thanks...im looking to tweak my keto diet so I am switching my green beans to spinach and broccoli and my fats from natty pb to almond butter and trying to get all my portions in order. It's hard for me to up my cardio more than 35 or 40min with school right now and im kind of hitting a wall. If you have any advice please shoot it my way.

    thanks for that info man

  43. #5263
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    Get a scale and measure it, bro. I measure in grams for precision. Depending on the meal goal, I'll usually eat 28g almonds, but if it's a lean protein, I do 42g sometimes.

  44. #5264
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAVIDHARDY View Post
    Get a scale and measure it, bro. I measure in grams for precision. Depending on the meal goal, I'll usually eat 28g almonds, but if it's a lean protein, I do 42g sometimes.
    I see...thanks!

  45. #5265
    OLYMPIAN Darkseid's Avatar
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    Hey guys!

    I'm going to star carb loading process tomorrow in the afternoon, and I was thinking in doing my carb meals with rice cakes and 1 banana.

    I did in the past my carb loading phase with just rice cakes, so now I'm going to do between 4 or 5 meals a day with (7 rice cakes and 1 banana).

    Do you think that is a good clean carb load?

    Thanks.
    S.M.A.R.T. TRAINING CERTIFIED, SPORT NUTRITIONIST CERTIFIED, CISCO CCNA CERTIFIED, CISCO CCENT CERTIFIED, COMPTIA A+ CERTIFIED and COMPTIA NETWORK+ CERTIFIED

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