Official keto thread

**GRAVESY** · 08-29-2009, 08:51 PM

What brand? New Balance have been good for me, so far. Used saucony sneakers and they started tearing at my heals.

**Frosty** · 08-29-2009, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Superior1

So basically a couple questions.
1. What effect do you think leucine induced insulin has on overall fat loss?

2. What actually kicks the thyroid back into action? Insulin? glucose? Or the shunting of cortisol from either insulin and/or glucose?

3. Also, Should people fear insulin solely, regarding fat loss, or should they be more concerned with the glucose response that insulin can cause? Which is to say if liver glucose stores are depleted, there will not be much of a glucose response from Leucine (or any other form of non glucose induced insulin release). Maybe some muscle glycogen depletion will occur, which isn't all bad regarding insulin sensitivity. if for a short spell.

Hopefully this is somewhat clear?

Sort answer is "I don't know."

However I think regardless of the cause of insulin, I think how sensitive your tissues are to insulin is a very important factor. If someone has chronic high insulin even when they wake up in the morning fasted, I don't particularly see raising insulin even from protein or aminos to be a good thing. They need to lower their insulin levels so the tissues can regain sensitivity so it can be used and controlled properly.

I've read about leucine assisting in fat loss. So I think guys fairly lean I don't see an issue with this at all....I think leucine would be beneficial especially the lower the calories are.

I think carbs are probably what stimulated the thyroid. If it were insulin then there would be no need to have a carb meal for this because you could just have a nice big whey protein shake or even a big steak and stimulate insulin much more than on the rest of the diet. That is unless it's just very high insulin levels that are needed for this, which obviously carbs are better at. But I don't know.

I think lowering insulin levels is probably the key to most guys looking to get lean, and the fatter you are the more you should be concerned with lowering insulin. As you get leaner your body regains sensitivity and it starts to work properly and it can do the good things insulin can do.

**Superior1** · 08-29-2009, 09:11 PM

All makes sense.
For me, since I cannot do an all out Keto diet, but require a TKD, otherwise my muscles lose any fullness they have. I lean more towards not fearing insulin release as much. So I guess it is very individual dependent.

I just know how I have been in the past and many people tend to be. If they hear insulin is bad regarding fat loss then they go hardcore to do everything in their power to keep insulin from being spiked. And for anyone, if this goes on too long it's not a good overall benefit. For me a dose of carb EOD at training time works best. While I don't maintain 5% this way, I stay in the single digits and keep muscles full. But for some a dose of carbs every 7 days works well.

But again I would see little wrong with 'many' people having a few mini insulin spikes from leucine during the week as long as low glucose levels present. I guess how lean one is, and how much muscle one can afford to lose for the sake of more fat loss. It's a delicate balance to say the least.

**CallofDuty4** · 08-29-2009, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by Frosty

Oh and the compression wicking under shorts. Now my thighs don't rub together when I walk! Yay. Happy times (^_^)

<(^_^<)
(>^_^)>
(dancing)

at your weight I highly doubt your thighs are rubbing

**Frosty** · 08-29-2009, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by CallofDuty4

at your weight I highly doubt your thighs are rubbing

They do! They always do no matter how lean I am. Maybe I don't have wide hips, or maybe it's that my hip adductors are well developed from lots of deeeeep squatting. The compression shorts help immensely.

**CallofDuty4** · 08-29-2009, 11:52 PM

are they the nike shoes that look like feet??

**Frosty** · 08-29-2009, 11:57 PM

I don't know the brand of shoes I got. I'd have to look. The girl helped me pick out the right shoes that helped my gate and felt good so that's all I cared about

Cute little fit Asian girl, too....lucky me

**CallofDuty4** · 08-29-2009, 11:59 PM

well this is the end of week 2, and so far no hungry pangs, Also just did a six day stretch at work normally I would be so tired by day four this time tons of energy, but sweating like a pig I was desinging a Kitchen at a customers home and I felt like I was on the t-mill sweating like a pig...also I'm doing cardio 4 times a week 30 minutes worth around 3.5 incline/3.0 speed also strating to train did chest and arms the other day...Frosty when should i stop doing 12 omega3's and DHA.

**Frosty** · 08-30-2009, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by Superior1

All makes sense.
For me, since I cannot do an all out Keto diet, but require a TKD, otherwise my muscles lose any fullness they have. I lean more towards not fearing insulin release as much. So I guess it is very individual dependent.

I just know how I have been in the past and many people tend to be. If they hear insulin is bad regarding fat loss then they go hardcore to do everything in their power to keep insulin from being spiked. And for anyone, if this goes on too long it's not a good overall benefit. For me a dose of carb EOD at training time works best. While I don't maintain 5% this way, I stay in the single digits and keep muscles full. But for some a dose of carbs every 7 days works well.

But again I would see little wrong with 'many' people having a few mini insulin spikes from leucine during the week as long as low glucose levels present. I guess how lean one is, and how much muscle one can afford to lose for the sake of more fat loss. It's a delicate balance to say the least.

Leucine can actually help lower blood glucose levels which can be a good thing as well. I think it's a good supplement for people on low carb, especially when calories are really low or if they're trying to gain mass. Also good for strength gains.

But as to the muscle loss thing, losing fullness technically is muscle loss but it comes right back when you're leaner and re-introduce carbs PWO and can carb load more, so I don't worry about it. I'm more concerned with people regaining good carb tolerance in the first place, THEN start adding more carbs once you got a six pack going.

**Frosty** · 08-30-2009, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by CallofDuty4

well this is the end of week 2, and so far no hungry pangs, Also just did a six day stretch at work normally I would be so tired by day four this time tons of energy, but sweating like a pig I was desinging a Kitchen at a customers home and I felt like I was on the t-mill sweating like a pig...also I'm doing cardio 4 times a week 30 minutes worth around 3.5 incline/3.0 speed also strating to train did chest and arms the other day...Frosty when should i stop doing 12 omega3's and DHA.

I'd run that much fish oil for 8 weeks then start cutting back the dose to half that.

**CallofDuty4** · 08-30-2009, 12:08 AM

Dam I better place another order then...are you sure u dont have a discount code "stop sandbagging"......lol

**CallofDuty4** · 08-30-2009, 10:17 AM

Frosty,

finished up my 2nd week and feeling good no hungry pangs, I'm really sticking to the plan still clean no supps other then fish oil, and multi's, Im getting 3-4 days of cardio in plus like you said just to do compound lifting. energy levels are still good. Frosty I think you are right with the 8 hours sleep I'm sleeping better waking up with energy. Arms sore from working biceps though.

Down 15 pounds in 2 weeks!!!!

316 week one
301 week two

**CallofDuty4** · 08-30-2009, 08:26 PM

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**figurebre** · 08-30-2009, 10:44 PM

I didnt read this entire thread, because its really long. But here is what I want to know.
Basically, fats and carbohydrates are the same thing when it comes to a diet. Except, fats have a lot more kilocalories per gram (9) compared to carbs (4). So, when you look at a calorie deficit as a whole, won't you be eating much less food on a keto diet than you would on a carbohydrate diet?

**zubbeyboy** · 08-30-2009, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by CallofDuty4

Frosty,

finished up my 2nd week and feeling good no hungry pangs, I'm really sticking to the plan still clean no supps other then fish oil, and multi's, Im getting 3-4 days of cardio in plus like you said just to do compound lifting. energy levels are still good. Frosty I think you are right with the 8 hours sleep I'm sleeping better waking up with energy. Arms sore from working biceps though.

Down 15 pounds in 2 weeks!!!!

316 week one
301 week two

Congratulations!
Thats awesome. Keep us updated.