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Thread: Official keto thread
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04-26-2009, 12:04 AM #361
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This might make it a little easier:
50g pro:
-161g cooked chicken breast + 12g fat
-190g cooked beef
Don't add fat to a beef meal.
Some fats by weight:
Macadamia nuts 76%
Almonds 50%
Avocado 15%
So if you need 10g fat divide by the percentage, so for mac nuts, 10/0.76=13g mac nuts needed. This makes it quick and easy to calculate how much of what fat to add to any meal.
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04-26-2009, 02:09 AM #362
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Frosty - tried to rework for the 50/20 ratio...feel like there should be a bit higher fat content...would you mind checking this briefly...thanks for the fats by weight equation - this simpifies things greatly...
Meal 1
Egg white
Whole egg
Omega-3 Fish Oil
Meal 2
Whey Protein
Peanut Butter
Everning Primrose Oil
Meal 3
Chicken
Almonds
Omega-3 Fish Oil
Meal 4
Whey Protein
Peanut Butter
Everning Primrose Oil
Meal 5
Catfish
Olive oil
Spinach
Meal 6
Whey Protein
Omega-3 Fish Oil
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04-26-2009, 10:57 AM #363
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Looks okay for now. Question...would it be possible to use almond butter after you use up your current stash of peanut butter?
Give that a shot with the right amounts and see what results you get. With this we have room to tweak things in the future IF NEEDED.
And I'm sorry if I forgot...but are you taking at least 9g of fish oil a day? I recommend at least this amount for fat loss since fish oil turns on fat burning genes.
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04-26-2009, 11:36 AM #364
Ok, I like Keto. I feel better when in ketosis I train better I don't get so tired etc etc etc
I've been doing a clean(ish) bulk for about 5 weeks now. I followed Daves idea of sticking to a simular diet to keto and just adding good carbs to each meal. (basmati rice, sweet potato, oats)
I feel like shit, I sleep poorly and have ups and downs in energy levels etc and night shift is even worse.
what do you think of the idea of going back into keto staying in calorie surpluss using good fats and protien. would this still be effective as a bulk? I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work.
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04-26-2009, 11:48 AM #365
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It should. Just make sure protein is at least 2g/lb bwt. Fats can be from 40-60% depending on your caloric needs, but start lower and increase based on results.
You do strongman workouts, right? That should require some carbs PWO because of the nature of a lot of strongman type work. Use this simple equation based on reps and LBM to determine carb intake PWO:
Z=(0.5307+0.00165*x)*y
Where,
- Z is carbs needed
- x is reps performed
- y is lean body mass in kilograms
(This is just a linear fit to Poliquin's carb recommendations)
Then do every 5-7 days a "cheat meal" like Dave recommends when cutting. You can play with adding more meals IF NEEDED for progress, based on the results you get with 1 big meal.
I really like 4:1:1 ratio BCAAs pre-workout, 0.44g/kg bwt, for gaining mass.
If you have better brain function on this type of diet, that alone can help with muscle gain because you will be stronger in the gym because your body is functioning smoother and that can assist in gaining mass, obviously.
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04-26-2009, 01:12 PM #366
Hey dude, your recommendation for fish oil, does that apply to a standard 18%/12% gel or the stronger stuff, I'm currently using a gel that supplies 400epa/200dha that I take 4-5 x a day as per Ron's suggestion in his streetsmart nutrition thread! I may up this as I've got some serious inflammation to sort out <ahem> down below
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04-26-2009, 01:32 PM #367
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i take a minimum of 30g daily of fish oil i think it has a great affect on metabolism when i started keto dieting i was taking morning body temperature readings as this is a good indicator of where your metabolism is at my readings initially where pretty low between 96 and 97 F after 30g plus fish oil no change in training i was reading 97.8 to 98.2F what according to dan duchaine is optimal
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04-26-2009, 02:11 PM #368
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60% EPA/DHA fish oil is good because you can take half the amount. 5g a day of this is equal to 10g of normal fish oil. This would be a minimal amount for fat loss. I agree with mr condition about high doses being good. Up to 25g a day of the 60% capsules can be beneficial for shorter time periods.
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04-26-2009, 02:33 PM #369
^^^ Damn, that would cost a fortune, times are tough these days
I never got the megadosing of fish oil for bodybuilders, I know Poliquin loves to megadose them but I also think what Ron said made a lot of sense that excessive fish oil reduces the inflammatory response to training, and an MD No bull radio show had either Dave/John state that Steve no longer takes fish oil as it inhibits the inflammatory response which is a necessary part of the bodys response to training stimuli and that makes total sense to me although I do believe in a reasonable dose of fish oil for it's gneral health benefits!
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04-26-2009, 02:48 PM #370
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Yeah i wouldn't really use that post work out i have it with first meal and maybe midday i normally train in the evening so no interference there
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04-26-2009, 02:57 PM #371
Maybe I'll grab myself a bottle of fish oil and run a megadose on that not the capsnas it would be much cheaper just to see what the benefits may or may not be - there would be no point me running it now as I'm upto my eyeballs in corticosteroids which does a nice job of reducing inflammation on it's own, as well as turn my bones to dust lol, these stuff suck ass!!
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04-26-2009, 05:27 PM #372
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Palumbo has it right that you want a BALANCE of EFAs in the diet. You don't want a diet almost devoid of omega-6s because that would negatively affect things, nor do you want a diet almost devoid of omega-3s, since excess and chronic inflammation hurts muscle gains.
Fish oil also helps with insulin sensitivity, which is HUGE as far as making sure carbs help you gain muscle efficiently. If insulin function isn't good, then carbs aren't doing the job so well to gain muscle...they do more things like increase fat, inflammation, etc.
And the high dose fish oil is for a relatively short time. The whole reasoning is this: Our diets are too high in omega-6 and most likely has been for many years. This means our cell membranes contain way more omega-6 than omega-3. So to make quick changes in cell membrane function, for the better, you swing the pendulum far in the direction of omega-3s to quickly shift the composition of cell membranes to improve function. Then you can back off to a maintenance dose of fish oil and go back to a 1:1 to 1:2 ratio of omega 3 : omega 6.
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04-26-2009, 05:46 PM #373
Hey thanks for the reply Frosty I missed it before. Thats pretty much what I had planned, but you have some interesting extra stuff there.. I'm going to start it on wednesday when i fly home. Should be interesting.
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04-26-2009, 10:18 PM #374
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Looks okay for now. Question...would it be possible to use almond butter after you use up your current stash of peanut butter?
Give that a shot with the right amounts and see what results you get. With this we have room to tweak things in the future IF NEEDED.
And I'm sorry if I forgot...but are you taking at least 9g of fish oil a day? I recommend at least this amount for fat loss since fish oil turns on fat burning genes.
I"ll run it as is and post up results for tweaking...appreciate your expertise..
I have approx 3g's of fish oil , but included other oils as well...can increase the amount of fish oil in the current diet...
Thanks Frosty...
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04-27-2009, 11:48 AM #375
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I've been reading more on sleep disturbances, causes, solutions. This is something I feel I need to address because it's so basic and I would say I do not have optimal sleep (not close).
Here are a few things I picked up that I wanted to share with anyone else that may have sleep issues. This post is concentrating more on frequent night wakings. Maybe I can address the issue of taking a lot of time to fall asleep in a different post.
Some possible causes of night wakings that I've found:
- Excessive drop in temperature (or too high temperature)
- Unstable blood sugar levels that lead to release of adrenal hormones (esp with early morning wakings)
- Too high training volume
- Overloaded/dysfunctional liver (especially when you wake around 3 am)
- Stimulants in the afternoon/evening such as caffeine, nicotine (guilty of nicotine before bed myself), and any form of cocoa (chocolate, cacao, cocoa)
- Chemical or food sensitivities esp before bed
- Overly vivid dreams that can be a result of certain foods and supplements such as whole eggs (stimulating protein with high choline), choline forms, acetyl l-carnitine or any acetylated supplement, vitamin B6, excessive doses of melatonin.
- Backwards circadian rhythms with low morning cortisol and high evening/night cortisol
- Digestive issues
- Eating a meal immediately before bed may be an issue
- Spicy foods before bed
- Eating foods that are difficult to digest, for example many raw vegetables such as broccoli and other crucifers, cucumbers, carrots, etc. Eating too many different foods before bed since this makes digestion more difficult. Heavy meats such as beef.
- Eating low fat before bed may reduce bile flow and obstruct liver function at night (when liver is most active)
- Of course any worry or stress from daily life
- Light in the bedroom. If it can't be completely dark use an eye cover
- TRYING TO SLEEP OR CONCENTRATING ON SLEEP, even before you go to bed. This makes sleep more difficult lol, and something I can be guilty of sometimes.
- Of course drinking excessive water before bed and/or not having enough salt with the last meal of the day which causes problems with retaining water, especially on low carb.
There are a few things I'm going to play with and I can report what I find.
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