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  1. #31
    RX MEMBER Myth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gman View Post
    I can chime in on the meal. I used the one meal Dave allowed as an excuse to pig out. It didn't affect me the first few weeks, but I gained 4 lbs the last two weeks, and did not cheat any other time other than the cheat meal.

    Dave advised me to cut the cheat meal down to a reasonable size meal, and I was up zero pounds the next morning (this past weekend).

    I agree, the least amount of carbs needed to stoke the fire, the better. Hopefully this will get me back on track of losing a lb or two a week!
    You shouldn't be worried about water gain after a refeed day bro. I consistently gain 18-25lb post-refeed and drop it all 3-4 days later, and end up lighter than the week before. We are all different, so you must experiment.

    MY GOAL OF A REFEED IS TO SHOOT FOR A POINT THAT ALLOWS ME TO SIMULTANEOUSLY CONSUME THE HIGHEST NUMBER OF CARBS POSSIBLE WHILE YIELDING THE OPTIMAL EFFICIENCY, IN TERMS OF FAT LOSS, METABOLIC ELEVATION, GLYCOGEN STORAGE, ETC...ALL WITH THE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF FAT DEPOSITION.

    To be honest, any substantial amount of fat gain resulting from a single refeed day or cheat meal is virtually neglible/impossible. Even if I do gain some fat from that ONE day, to me it is like taing one step back in rder to progress 5 steps forward. As opposed to a single measly cheat meal, whereby I would be taking 0 steps back, but only 1-2 steps forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quadzilla02 View Post
    what are some of the number thats people have lost in the first week or second week on the diet...or if you lost any.
    Answers will inevitably have a huge variance, so there really is no point in taking heed to anyone else's results. I would say that some of the main variables that affect weight loss/gain at the onset of the keto diet are: your diet prior to keto (carbs, calories, meal frequency, macro composition, etc), training experience, supplementation, "other" supplementation, etc. That is why, for example, one 200lb man cannot expect the same results following the same diet as another 200lb man, as everyone's biochemistry is unique.

    That is why I like to use the following formula as a baseline for keto macros: .25g protein and .1g fat per pound lean body mass eaten every 2.5-3hrs one is awake.

    Then you would simply adjust FATS up or down from there after assessing progress every couple weeks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Hi Myth

    Great to see you over here, i was just wanting to know what you recommend in regards to off season carb cycling? Such as how many carbs per lb and which meals.

    Im currently taking in Meal1 PostWO1 and PostWO2 with carbs figured based on BW divided by 3 split between these meals

    Do you recommend skiploading or smaller carb refeeds in the offseason?

    Thanks in advance!
    3 carb meals is good. If you want to carb cycle, I would start with AVERAGING .75-1g carb per pound LBM. Example: my LBM=180, so I would average 150g carbs per day. Then if I wanted to cycle carbs, I would keep the same 150g average, but make my high day 200g and my low day 100g.

    Yes I recommend refeeds in the offseason or onseason. Obviously your refeed days wont need to be as intense (carb-dense) as when you are cutting, but they still need to be implemented, nonetheless, to keep fat levels at bay (by stoking the metabolism) and restocking glycogen (especially if carb cycling).

    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyMuscle View Post
    Is there a way to speed up getting into ketosis? I find that if I have my cheat on Saturday night I don't get into ketosis until Wednesday.
    Personally I always do a long slow duration cardio session the day after, such as hiking for a few hours, running a half marathon, biking 30 miles, etc. Works every time

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    Me personally I seem to get better results with bigger cheats. The pic in my avatar I was a bit under 10% but I did get leaner from there...veins in lower abs and striated triceps. My cheats were sometimes absolutely terrible. Once was a grocery bag full of candy bars (ugh!). But I sure did get lean.

    I had an embarrassing moment at work one time where I did a cheat meal on a Saturday and I ate so much that I was in the bathroom trying to make myself throw up because I was in so much pain from eating too much. I had to tell my boss I felt sick and threw up and went home and went to sleep. Another time I was over someone's place for a BBQ and I ate so much I was in the bathroom heaving (although not throwing up). Yeah...that's too far. But still I got in good shape! LOL

    I've since learned to control that more without stuffing myself painfully, but I still eat a lot (like my cheat meal I just had and listed).
    I've been thru the exact same thing bro. Now I have finally learned how to eat till I am on the verge of being uncomfortable, but not quite. It's truly an art to know how far to push yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    I prefer my cheats to have good amounts of fat. I crave fats and I feel they're more productive for me this way.
    What would you estimate your macro composition to be for your cheats? Do you just have single meal or all day dirty cheats? Also, do you have a fast metabolism? Or have you conditioned yourself in such a way?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    What would you estimate your macro composition to be for your cheats? Do you just have single meal or all day dirty cheats? Also, do you have a fast metabolism? Or have you conditioned yourself in such a way?
    I do a single meal, one sitting. I don't have a fast metabolism. I tend to gain or lose weight easily. The macros I have no idea. From the list you can tell it's quite high in fat. I don't usually get very excited over just sugary stuff. The only low fat stuff I like are things like spaghetti, rice, and breads. Fatty stuff is satisfying to me.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Poppa View Post
    Hello Frosty and Myth.

    I have ran the keto diet twice. 1st 12 weeks I lost 25 lbs and 6 inches off my waist. 2nd 12 week run I lost 6 lbs and 0 inches off my waist. Ran the exact same protocol.

    Only time I have to train and do cardio is between 4:45 to 6:15 am. I have a family that need me at night. I wake up at 3:30am to take pre-workout drink and "grow a tail".

    With only an hour and a half per day to train and do cardio I don't have the option to increase cardio (unless I cut back on training).

    Should I lower calories, cut out cheat meals, or reduce training to drop fat.

    FYI. I run a tech support dept so I sit on my ass most of the day.
    Stats: 229lbs 5'8 at about 20% bf.
    The answer depends on your current diet. Would you mind posting it exactly (amounts and everything) so we can help?

  4. #34
    PENCILNECK reutacris's Avatar
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    Pre-Contest, when do you guys take cheat meals out completely? Currently, I am 3 weeks out this Saturday. My original plan was that last Friday night's cheat meal would be my last, however I still lost 1.5 lbs this week and I read somewhere that you do not need to take cheat meals out if you are still losing weight. Should I go ahead and have a cheat meal this Friday then? Or maybe should I eat carbs for one meal, just not "cheat" foods? Or should I stick with my plan and not do cheats anymore?

    Thanks in advance,
    Chad

  5. #35
    RX MEMBER Myth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reutacris View Post
    Pre-Contest, when do you guys take cheat meals out completely? Currently, I am 3 weeks out this Saturday. My original plan was that last Friday night's cheat meal would be my last, however I still lost 1.5 lbs this week and I read somewhere that you do not need to take cheat meals out if you are still losing weight. Should I go ahead and have a cheat meal this Friday then? Or maybe should I eat carbs for one meal, just not "cheat" foods? Or should I stick with my plan and not do cheats anymore?

    Thanks in advance,
    Chad
    I don't believe in cheat meals; I believe in refeed meals. I don't drop them before a contest; I increase them as I near a contest.

    Contemplate this: one of the main reasons you are still dropping weight is the cheat meal, so would it make sense to drop the cheat meal at ANY point in the diet if you are still losing weight? Of course not! If it aint broke, don't fix it

  6. #36
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    And to add to that, do what's been working this far. Don't go changing things if it's working. That's how people get messed up before a show by tweaking all kinds of shit that was working just great.

  7. #37
    RX MEMBER -BLP-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frizzy View Post
    Nice :] I would stay away from the whoppers though to much fat for me !

    My last one was...
    1.3 Onion Bagels with FF cream cheese(strawberry)
    2.3 Big mixing bowls if assorted kids cereal whole grain.
    3.1 failed attempt at home made pizza but I scarfed it down.
    4.Home made nacho chilli fries.
    5.Low fat ice Cream with brownies & french toast

    failed attempt omg that happen to me , your so piss and eat it anw LOL

  8. #38
    BARBARIAN BROTHER MusclesMarinara's Avatar
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    Did anyone try the leucine with meals? It tastes horrible and i dont wanna be consuming 20g a day if it doesnt put into ketosis faster =)

  9. #39
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    Leucine is an awesome supplement that is worth every penny. It is extremely solid and does great things, especially on this type of diet when trying to cut. I do 5g with 3 meals separated. This is every day. Only after a cheat do I do extra leucine.

  10. #40
    BARBARIAN BROTHER MusclesMarinara's Avatar
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    A quick rundown of my diet is..

    1- 45g wpi w/ 1tbs anpb
    2- 3 eggs 4 whites
    3- 8oz chicken, 1/3 cup almonds or cashews
    4- 45g wpi w/ 1tbs anpb
    5- 8oz red meat or fish w/ salad & oil n vinegar
    6- 3 hard boiled eggs with 4 egg whites

    so i should add leucine to meals 1 4 and 6 and on the day after the cheat it should be 1-6?

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclesMarinara View Post
    A quick rundown of my diet is..

    1- 45g wpi w/ 1tbs anpb
    2- 3 eggs 4 whites
    3- 8oz chicken, 1/3 cup almonds or cashews
    4- 45g wpi w/ 1tbs anpb
    5- 8oz red meat or fish w/ salad & oil n vinegar
    6- 3 hard boiled eggs with 4 egg whites

    so i should add leucine to meals 1 4 and 6 and on the day after the cheat it should be 1-6?

    That would work.

    Just a quick comment....how come your meals are so uneven? Your egg meals are just over 30g of protein, and your chicken meal is like 70g of protein, and your protein shake meals are like 8g of fat and your chicken/almond meal is over 30g.

  12. #42
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    Glad to see you over here Myth. Quick question, what do you think of doing FST-7 training while on keto? Thanks

  13. #43
    RX MEMBER Myth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipper View Post
    Glad to see you over here Myth. Quick question, what do you think of doing FST-7 training while on keto? Thanks
    Sorry bro, but I don't know enough about the program to give an educated answer. I do know this, though: on a keto diet, low volume, high intensity is optimal.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipper View Post
    Glad to see you over here Myth. Quick question, what do you think of doing FST-7 training while on keto? Thanks

    This is doable IF you use PWO carbs only, in my opinion. If you use say 50g of Vitargo PWO you will get the carbs you need and you will never get out of fat burning mode. Structure the diet the same otherwise...just add those PWO carbs.

    This is of course if you're under 10% bodyfat (a clear six pack).

    This is also of course if you've been on a keto type diet for a month or more. You want strong adaptation to this diet to make this work properly.

  15. #45
    ARNOLD LIKE gman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    You shouldn't be worried about water gain after a refeed day bro. I consistently gain 18-25lb post-refeed and drop it all 3-4 days later, and end up lighter than the week before. We are all different, so you must experiment.

    MY GOAL OF A REFEED IS TO SHOOT FOR A POINT THAT ALLOWS ME TO SIMULTANEOUSLY CONSUME THE HIGHEST NUMBER OF CARBS POSSIBLE WHILE YIELDING THE OPTIMAL EFFICIENCY, IN TERMS OF FAT LOSS, METABOLIC ELEVATION, GLYCOGEN STORAGE, ETC...ALL WITH THE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF FAT DEPOSITION.

    To be honest, any substantial amount of fat gain resulting from a single refeed day or cheat meal is virtually neglible/impossible. Even if I do gain some fat from that ONE day, to me it is like taing one step back in rder to progress 5 steps forward. As opposed to a single measly cheat meal, whereby I would be taking 0 steps back, but only 1-2 steps forward.
    I understand what you are saying and conceptually agree with it,and think it works for most people, but maybe because I am older, have so much to lose, or any number of factors, the fact is I gained 5 lbs overnight, then only lost 2 of them during the week, and ended up +3.

    This week, I gained 0 lbs on my cheat, and have lost 2, so I am down 2, still up 1 from pre cheat weight 2 cheat meals ago!

    I just will keep it reasonable and not gorge to the gills like I was doing and see if it works. What you say works for everyone else, just wanted to say there is one person the jury is still out on!

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