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Thread: Official keto thread
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04-02-2009, 07:17 PM #31
You shouldn't be worried about water gain after a refeed day bro. I consistently gain 18-25lb post-refeed and drop it all 3-4 days later, and end up lighter than the week before. We are all different, so you must experiment.
MY GOAL OF A REFEED IS TO SHOOT FOR A POINT THAT ALLOWS ME TO SIMULTANEOUSLY CONSUME THE HIGHEST NUMBER OF CARBS POSSIBLE WHILE YIELDING THE OPTIMAL EFFICIENCY, IN TERMS OF FAT LOSS, METABOLIC ELEVATION, GLYCOGEN STORAGE, ETC...ALL WITH THE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF FAT DEPOSITION.
To be honest, any substantial amount of fat gain resulting from a single refeed day or cheat meal is virtually neglible/impossible. Even if I do gain some fat from that ONE day, to me it is like taing one step back in rder to progress 5 steps forward. As opposed to a single measly cheat meal, whereby I would be taking 0 steps back, but only 1-2 steps forward.
Answers will inevitably have a huge variance, so there really is no point in taking heed to anyone else's results. I would say that some of the main variables that affect weight loss/gain at the onset of the keto diet are: your diet prior to keto (carbs, calories, meal frequency, macro composition, etc), training experience, supplementation, "other" supplementation, etc. That is why, for example, one 200lb man cannot expect the same results following the same diet as another 200lb man, as everyone's biochemistry is unique.
That is why I like to use the following formula as a baseline for keto macros: .25g protein and .1g fat per pound lean body mass eaten every 2.5-3hrs one is awake.
Then you would simply adjust FATS up or down from there after assessing progress every couple weeks.
3 carb meals is good. If you want to carb cycle, I would start with AVERAGING .75-1g carb per pound LBM. Example: my LBM=180, so I would average 150g carbs per day. Then if I wanted to cycle carbs, I would keep the same 150g average, but make my high day 200g and my low day 100g.
Yes I recommend refeeds in the offseason or onseason. Obviously your refeed days wont need to be as intense (carb-dense) as when you are cutting, but they still need to be implemented, nonetheless, to keep fat levels at bay (by stoking the metabolism) and restocking glycogen (especially if carb cycling).
Personally I always do a long slow duration cardio session the day after, such as hiking for a few hours, running a half marathon, biking 30 miles, etc. Works every time
I've been thru the exact same thing bro. Now I have finally learned how to eat till I am on the verge of being uncomfortable, but not quite. It's truly an art to know how far to push yourself
What would you estimate your macro composition to be for your cheats? Do you just have single meal or all day dirty cheats? Also, do you have a fast metabolism? Or have you conditioned yourself in such a way?
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04-02-2009, 09:47 PM #32
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I do a single meal, one sitting. I don't have a fast metabolism. I tend to gain or lose weight easily. The macros I have no idea. From the list you can tell it's quite high in fat. I don't usually get very excited over just sugary stuff. The only low fat stuff I like are things like spaghetti, rice, and breads. Fatty stuff is satisfying to me.
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04-02-2009, 09:49 PM #33
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04-02-2009, 10:34 PM #34
Pre-Contest, when do you guys take cheat meals out completely? Currently, I am 3 weeks out this Saturday. My original plan was that last Friday night's cheat meal would be my last, however I still lost 1.5 lbs this week and I read somewhere that you do not need to take cheat meals out if you are still losing weight. Should I go ahead and have a cheat meal this Friday then? Or maybe should I eat carbs for one meal, just not "cheat" foods? Or should I stick with my plan and not do cheats anymore?
Thanks in advance,
Chad
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04-02-2009, 10:56 PM #35
I don't believe in cheat meals; I believe in refeed meals. I don't drop them before a contest; I increase them as I near a contest.
Contemplate this: one of the main reasons you are still dropping weight is the cheat meal, so would it make sense to drop the cheat meal at ANY point in the diet if you are still losing weight? Of course not! If it aint broke, don't fix it
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04-02-2009, 11:41 PM #36
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And to add to that, do what's been working this far. Don't go changing things if it's working. That's how people get messed up before a show by tweaking all kinds of shit that was working just great.
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04-03-2009, 12:16 AM #37
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04-03-2009, 12:29 AM #38
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Did anyone try the leucine with meals? It tastes horrible and i dont wanna be consuming 20g a day if it doesnt put into ketosis faster =)
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04-03-2009, 12:50 AM #39
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Leucine is an awesome supplement that is worth every penny. It is extremely solid and does great things, especially on this type of diet when trying to cut. I do 5g with 3 meals separated. This is every day. Only after a cheat do I do extra leucine.
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04-03-2009, 01:22 AM #40
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A quick rundown of my diet is..
1- 45g wpi w/ 1tbs anpb
2- 3 eggs 4 whites
3- 8oz chicken, 1/3 cup almonds or cashews
4- 45g wpi w/ 1tbs anpb
5- 8oz red meat or fish w/ salad & oil n vinegar
6- 3 hard boiled eggs with 4 egg whites
so i should add leucine to meals 1 4 and 6 and on the day after the cheat it should be 1-6?
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04-03-2009, 10:28 AM #41
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04-03-2009, 11:02 AM #42
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Glad to see you over here Myth. Quick question, what do you think of doing FST-7 training while on keto? Thanks
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04-03-2009, 11:44 AM #43
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04-03-2009, 12:57 PM #44
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This is doable IF you use PWO carbs only, in my opinion. If you use say 50g of Vitargo PWO you will get the carbs you need and you will never get out of fat burning mode. Structure the diet the same otherwise...just add those PWO carbs.
This is of course if you're under 10% bodyfat (a clear six pack).
This is also of course if you've been on a keto type diet for a month or more. You want strong adaptation to this diet to make this work properly.
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04-03-2009, 01:22 PM #45
I understand what you are saying and conceptually agree with it,and think it works for most people, but maybe because I am older, have so much to lose, or any number of factors, the fact is I gained 5 lbs overnight, then only lost 2 of them during the week, and ended up +3.
This week, I gained 0 lbs on my cheat, and have lost 2, so I am down 2, still up 1 from pre cheat weight 2 cheat meals ago!
I just will keep it reasonable and not gorge to the gills like I was doing and see if it works. What you say works for everyone else, just wanted to say there is one person the jury is still out on!
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