Official keto thread

**CodyKelly** · 12-09-2009, 12:26 AM

Sorry to post so many replies but you got me thinking. lol. So my diet as of now is 300g P (from chicken, eggs, and steak, and shakes) 90-95g F(from, peanut butter, and mac nut, and trace amounts for meat source) >30 g of carbs. Roughly 2300 kcal (if maths on). Im weighin 215 at the moment. So you suggest me taking 430g of P, and roughly 150g of F. You don't think over 3000 cal, will make me put on more fat? And do i count the fish oil, and epo towards my overall calorie intake? Also, what is your favorite kinds of fat, I know your not a big advocate of PB. Thanks
Cody

**Frosty** · 12-09-2009, 01:56 AM

Fish oil helps turn on genes that burn fat. It helps increase insulin sensitivity. Because of this it's great for fat loss and changing body composition positively. You could take the same amount of EPO. Fish oil in the summer and cod liver oil in the winter is the ONE supplement if I had to choose only one. Count this fish oil for your daily intake.

Love handle fat is insulin, remember. Low carb is your friend, even if gaining mass. It takes a good 1.5 years at a low body fat (6-8%) to start changing your body in how it handles carbs effectively.

Start with 1.5g/lb in protein and 40-45% calories from fat. Only up the protein if you're not putting on size and strength. For example if you measure your upper arms and they're shrinking like mad while cutting and you're not getting stronger, I'd eat more. Good fats are macadamia nuts/butter, extra virgin olive oil, avocados, and almonds.

**CodyKelly** · 12-09-2009, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Frosty

Fish oil helps turn on genes that burn fat. It helps increase insulin sensitivity. Because of this it's great for fat loss and changing body composition positively. You could take the same amount of EPO. Fish oil in the summer and cod liver oil in the winter is the ONE supplement if I had to choose only one. Count this fish oil for your daily intake.

Love handle fat is insulin, remember. Low carb is your friend, even if gaining mass. It takes a good 1.5 years at a low body fat (6-8%) to start changing your body in how it handles carbs effectively.

Start with 1.5g/lb in protein and 40-45% calories from fat. Only up the protein if you're not putting on size and strength. For example if you measure your upper arms and they're shrinking like mad while cutting and you're not getting stronger, I'd eat more. Good fats are macadamia nuts/butter, extra virgin olive oil, avocados, and almonds.

Is it that necessary to match the fish oil intake with the epo intake?

**Frosty** · 12-09-2009, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by CodyKelly

Is it that necessary to match the fish oil intake with the epo intake?

I don't think so from what I've seen.

**tony63** · 12-09-2009, 11:57 AM

I am pretty new to KETO, and still reading through this thread.

I workout first thing in the morning. What would be a good preworkout meal, and how long before I hit the gym should I eat?

Thx...

**juggernaut** · 12-09-2009, 12:02 PM

I have a sweet tooth, and even though I can use Walden Farms chocolate sauce to circumvent some of the cravings, I still feel I need a sweet fix once in a while. I've done the anabolic diet and this helps, but how do you get around it when going fully keto and one cheat meal a week seems so far away? When I am finished with my AAS bulk, I plan on getting the job done with Dave's keto, and dont want to screw it up. Any pointers?

**Frosty** · 12-09-2009, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by tony63

I am pretty new to KETO, and still reading through this thread.

I workout first thing in the morning. What would be a good preworkout meal, and how long before I hit the gym should I eat?

Thx...

Depends on how much time you have. Eggs would be great if you can wait 1-1.5 hrs before you train. If not, then a whey shake with oil or nuts and wait 45 minutes or so.

**tony63** · 12-09-2009, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Frosty

Depends on how much time you have. Eggs would be great if you can wait 1-1.5 hrs before you train. If not, then a whey shake with oil or nuts and wait 45 minutes or so.

Then a whey shake with nuts it is...

What would you recommend post???

**Frosty** · 12-09-2009, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by tony63

Then a whey shake with nuts it is...

What would you recommend post???

Whey and a fat source

**Frosty** · 12-09-2009, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I have a sweet tooth, and even though I can use Walden Farms chocolate sauce to circumvent some of the cravings, I still feel I need a sweet fix once in a while. I've done the anabolic diet and this helps, but how do you get around it when going fully keto and one cheat meal a week seems so far away? When I am finished with my AAS bulk, I plan on getting the job done with Dave's keto, and dont want to screw it up. Any pointers?

Ok maybe dumb, but what about diet soda?

**tony63** · 12-09-2009, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Frosty

Whey and a fat source

Cool, thx again.

**juggernaut** · 12-09-2009, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Frosty

Ok maybe dumb, but what about diet soda?

diet soda to me is shit. I cant handle the taste of it. I'd rather have something solid.

**lomox** · 12-09-2009, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I have a sweet tooth, and even though I can use Walden Farms chocolate sauce to circumvent some of the cravings, I still feel I need a sweet fix once in a while. I've done the anabolic diet and this helps, but how do you get around it when going fully keto and one cheat meal a week seems so far away? When I am finished with my AAS bulk, I plan on getting the job done with Dave's keto, and dont want to screw it up. Any pointers?

Add this to everything...
also mix with cocoa powder and psyllium husk for choco pudding (fyi if you add whey to this it will not thicken as much)

**DAVIDHARDY** · 12-09-2009, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by juggernaut

diet soda to me is shit. I cant handle the taste of it. I'd rather have something solid.

Freeze it...sorry I couldn't help myself lol.

**DAVIDHARDY** · 12-09-2009, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Frosty

I would definitely go with whey protein over pea protein. There is just so much evidence on the benefits of whey, and there is no such thing for pea protein. The only reason I could see using pea protein would be is if you have some sort of allergy to whey protein and need a protein supplement.

I agree, but Author got me to thinking about using pea protein a while back when he was on HMR. He was taking about why he doesn't produce a whey protein, because he doesn't necessarily like them and if he were to produce a protein, he would use a corn or pea protein in his product. I never really looked into it, but it was making sense to me when I was listening to it. I'd have to go back and listen to the episode again and then look up research on it to base an opinion of my own. Maybe I'll do that and let y'all know what I think and we can have a discussion on it.

**juggernaut** · 12-09-2009, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by hardc0rehardy5

Freeze it...sorry I couldn't help myself lol.

that was funny...fucking comedian...funny you make me laugh

**Silidons** · 12-09-2009, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I have a sweet tooth, and even though I can use Walden Farms chocolate sauce to circumvent some of the cravings, I still feel I need a sweet fix once in a while. I've done the anabolic diet and this helps, but how do you get around it when going fully keto and one cheat meal a week seems so far away? When I am finished with my AAS bulk, I plan on getting the job done with Dave's keto, and dont want to screw it up. Any pointers?

When I make my eggs in the morning, I blend them in the blender, add in 1tbsp whole psyillium husk, and it makes it thicker. Scramble them just like normal eggs(you're going to have to flip them to cook both sides). Get Walden Farms Maple Syrup, heat it up, pour on the syrup, it tastes almost like eating pancakes with maple syrup.

**juggernaut** · 12-09-2009, 07:49 PM

oh shit I have to try this

**Silidons** · 12-09-2009, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by juggernaut

oh shit I have to try this

Try this also, I have one (I use macadamia nut oil instead of Almond or Peanut Butter) about 2 times a day.

Beware of timers - mine is done in about 30 seconds. Some protein powders absolutely SUCK at it (IE ON, Isopure, not sure on others that are bad) but All the Whey, Muscle Gauge, and Dymatize work well with the brownie.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73Yhz9J9Fb8"]YouTube- Scivation NO CARB Brownie[/ame]

This one is better if you use peanut/almond butter because it's not that much if you only use 1tbsp of mac nut oil!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3KREjvUTzM&feature=fvw"]YouTube- Making Sludge![/ame]

**DAVIDHARDY** · 12-09-2009, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by juggernaut

that was funny...fucking comedian...funny you make me laugh

hahahahahaha

**Frosty** · 12-09-2009, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by hardc0rehardy5

I agree, but Author got me to thinking about using pea protein a while back when he was on HMR. He was taking about why he doesn't produce a whey protein, because he doesn't necessarily like them and if he were to produce a protein, he would use a corn or pea protein in his product. I never really looked into it, but it was making sense to me when I was listening to it. I'd have to go back and listen to the episode again and then look up research on it to base an opinion of my own. Maybe I'll do that and let y'all know what I think and we can have a discussion on it.

Well I would certainly agree that if whey is causing any issues that you should not use it. Any food that you have a sensitivity or allergy to is a poison and should be avoided as much as possible.

I'd be open to data on pea protein, but just a somewhat educated guess would be that it won't hold a candle to whey. You're talking about a plant protein versus a very complex animal protein.

As of right now, I'd much rather see someone just eat solid foods instead of pea protein if they have a sensitivity or allergy to whey protein.

As for the peri-workout period, I'd much rather see someone use EAAs or BCAAs instead of pea protein. But again if a significant body of evidence emerges on pea protein I'm all ears. I just predict there won't be.

**jjjohns_10** · 12-09-2009, 11:14 PM

Frost,
What do you think about shrimp on a pre-contest keto diet as a lean protein source?

**Frosty** · 12-10-2009, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by jjjohns_10

Frost,
What do you think about shrimp on a pre-contest keto diet as a lean protein source?

It's good but it's not very protein dense. 50g protein is 161g of cooked chicken breast, but for shrimp it's 240g cooked.

**-BLP-** · 12-10-2009, 01:47 AM

what the link between keto , energy , adrenaline??

a guy came out with the theory , adrenaline is the energy on keto which is probably untrue ,, but i am asking because this when i am tired lazy on keto it' suck but when im hyper it like an hyper adrenaline rush who last few days

thk u

**Frosty** · 12-10-2009, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by -BLP-

what the link between keto , energy , adrenaline??

a guy came out with the theory , adrenaline is the energy on keto which is probably untrue ,, but i am asking because this when i am tired lazy on keto it' suck but when im hyper it like an hyper adrenaline rush who last few days

thk u

A high protein, moderate fat, very low carb diet tends to be more stimulating. What I mean is, protein tends to be a bit more stimulating while carbs tend to relax you more through serotonin production as a down-stream effect. On top of that, some proteins are more stimulating than others, like eggs, beef, buffalo, and liver. For example the higher tyrosine and phenylalanine content of those proteins is more stimulating, and in eggs the shit ton of choline helps support acetylcholine production which helps alertness. All the B vitamins you get in lots of meat and eggs also helps support alertness. Fish oil also helps brain function so high doses can support this.

So if you're eating low carb and getting in beef and eggs in the morning, yes, it tends to be a stimulating diet if your genotype is fit for keto. The things mentioned helps support the body if it needs to produce stress hormones.

However this is healthy stimulation, not making your body all stressed out and running on stress hormones. Cortisol is not jacked up on a diet that has decent calories and enough fat. Now if you go to protein/veggie doing a lot of training and cardio, that's a totally different story. Stimulants also are another story, and adding stimulants on top of a diet that helps support alertness, well you get the idea.

**-BLP-** · 12-10-2009, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by Frosty

A high protein, moderate fat, very low carb diet tends to be more stimulating. What I mean is, protein tends to be a bit more stimulating while carbs tend to relax you more through serotonin production as a down-stream effect. On top of that, some proteins are more stimulating than others, like eggs, beef, buffalo, and liver. For example the higher tyrosine and phenylalanine content of those proteins is more stimulating, and in eggs the shit ton of choline helps support acetylcholine production which helps alertness. All the B vitamins you get in lots of meat and eggs also helps support alertness. Fish oil also helps brain function so high doses can support this.

So if you're eating low carb and getting in beef and eggs in the morning, yes, it tends to be a stimulating diet if your genotype is fit for keto. The things mentioned helps support the body if it needs to produce stress hormones.

However this is healthy stimulation, not making your body all stressed out and running on stress hormones. Cortisol is not jacked up on a diet that has decent calories and enough fat. Now if you go to protein/veggie doing a lot of training and cardio, that's a totally different story. Stimulants also are another story, and adding stimulants on top of a diet that helps support alertness, well you get the idea.

i get idea ... i get the story ! men it like being on meth ! men i am so hyper on keto next diet i will video youtube it on my journal lol

thk u awesome answer

**juggernaut** · 12-10-2009, 04:56 AM

ok, not to sound gross, but this has really piqued my interest because of my past history with keto diets. The short days after initiating, I will stop farting. Why?

**DAVIDHARDY** · 12-10-2009, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by Frosty

Well I would certainly agree that if whey is causing any issues that you should not use it. Any food that you have a sensitivity or allergy to is a poison and should be avoided as much as possible.

I'd be open to data on pea protein, but just a somewhat educated guess would be that it won't hold a candle to whey. You're talking about a plant protein versus a very complex animal protein.

As of right now, I'd much rather see someone just eat solid foods instead of pea protein if they have a sensitivity or allergy to whey protein.

As for the peri-workout period, I'd much rather see someone use EAAs or BCAAs instead of pea protein. But again if a significant body of evidence emerges on pea protein I'm all ears. I just predict there won't be.

Oh definately, you should stay away from anything that you are allergic to or can't handle properly. I don't think that whey will be outdone by pea protein, but there has to be something that is better in a pea vs a whey, you know? It'll be cool to see how they weigh

against each other...I know y'all are loving the pun lol.

I'd rather eat solids myself, but from a convenience standpoint, sometimes we have to drink the calories rather than take the time to eat them. I like to use aminos during and after my workout and eat something solid like a steak and potato before hand, or if I don't have time, I'll have a shake. I don't think that I'll find much evidence on it like you will whey, but a lot of that has to do with it not being around as long. I think that it could be comparable and a good alternative to whey, but it depends on the extraction process of making the powder from the peas. I don't know if I'm about to make any sense here, but I'll try:

When they make the powder, are they only extracting the correct amount of aminos to elicit a complete protein in the final product? If so, then I don't see why it wouldn't compare to the whey's of the supplement industry. Again, I haven't looked too much into it as far as the amino acid profile etc.., because I've been busy lately, but it'll be interesting to research. Who know's, it could be the next big thing. I'm sure that there were tons of doubters when whey came along and look at it now.

**juggernaut** · 12-10-2009, 06:58 AM

whats a good cheat meal? I would prefer a high carb pizza to refill glycogen. Anyone?

**Frosty** · 12-10-2009, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by juggernaut

ok, not to sound gross, but this has really piqued my interest because of my past history with keto diets. The short days after initiating, I will stop farting. Why?

Maybe from the carbs and fiber you were eating before? I know I don't fart a whole lot but on carb days I sure do.

**Frosty** · 12-10-2009, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by juggernaut

whats a good cheat meal? I would prefer a high carb pizza to refill glycogen. Anyone?

I wish I could ban anyone from this thread that asks this question.

**juggernaut** · 12-10-2009, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Frosty

I wish I could ban anyone from this thread that asks this question.

come on frosty...I'm serious. Please espouse us of your wisdom

**Frosty** · 12-10-2009, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by juggernaut

come on frosty...I'm serious. Please espouse us of your wisdom

I must get in touch with my inner Yoda.

Pizza, enjoy it you can.

**juggernaut** · 12-10-2009, 12:29 PM

SWEEEEEET....this aint going to be so bad.

One other thing, I see that the Dave diet uses 1.5g of protein; is that LBM or bodyweight.

**Frosty** · 12-10-2009, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by juggernaut

SWEEEEEET....this aint going to be so bad.

One other thing, I see that the Dave diet uses 1.5g of protein; is that LBM or bodyweight.

Really it's if you're not pretty fat. It's not LBM, but if you're 20% BF I would use a lower number.

**juggernaut** · 12-10-2009, 12:35 PM

I'm most likely about 18%. I am going to most likely hit 250 after my cycle is through, with as little fluctuations in bf as possible.

**Frosty** · 12-10-2009, 03:02 PM

Well I'll say this. It's better to start higher in calories than to start lower.

**Silidons** · 12-10-2009, 03:10 PM

Frosty, I know you said you like burgers, but stay away from trans-fats, where do you get your burgers from? I assume you go to a restaurant or make them yourself? I can't find a place that doesn't have any trans-fats.

**juggernaut** · 12-10-2009, 03:41 PM

stay away from Bubba burgers. they have TF. I'd suggest getting meat from the butcher and prepping it ahead of time. It's a burger for fucks sake

**lomox** · 12-10-2009, 04:37 PM

A burger itself should be free of trans fat. Why would they add hydrogenated oil to the burger? The fires and anything fried would be suspect. But even Mickey Ds stopped using transfat in thier fryers.

Any diner burger should be just fine. Grass fed beef burgers are better... and I'm talkin taste here too! Holy shit the difference is astounding... unfortunately in price too.

**Silidons** · 12-10-2009, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by juggernaut

stay away from Bubba burgers. they have TF. I'd suggest getting meat from the butcher and prepping it ahead of time. It's a burger for fucks sake

Originally Posted by lomox

A burger itself should be free of trans fat. Why would they add hydrogenated oil to the burger? The fires and anything fried would be suspect. But even Mickey Ds stopped using transfat in thier fryers.

Any diner burger should be just fine. Grass fed beef burgers are better... and I'm talkin taste here too! Holy shit the difference is astounding... unfortunately in price too.

All fast food that I've seen have trans-fats in them. Mcdonalds, Burger King, Carls Jr, Wendy's, you name it, they got it.

It's hard to beat those $1 double double's from Burger King in taste, but if I have to make my own burger I would rather have something different for my refeed.

**Frosty** · 12-10-2009, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Obnoxious123

All fast food that I've seen have trans-fats in them. Mcdonalds, Burger King, Carls Jr, Wendy's, you name it, they got it.

It's hard to beat those $1 double double's from Burger King in taste, but if I have to make my own burger I would rather have something different for my refeed.

THere are naturally occurring trans fats in beef and milk. They're fine.

I was referring to staying away from nasty fats like those in french fries, stuff in commercial donuts, potato chips, etc.

**juggernaut** · 12-10-2009, 06:46 PM

none of those?? fuhhhhhhck.

**Silidons** · 12-10-2009, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Frosty

THere are naturally occurring trans fats in beef and milk. They're fine.

I was referring to staying away from nasty fats like those in french fries, stuff in commercial donuts, potato chips, etc.

Alright thanks that makes me happy! I don't ever get french fries anyways...haven't had one for years.

**DAVIDHARDY** · 12-10-2009, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Obnoxious123

All fast food that I've seen have trans-fats in them. Mcdonalds, Burger King, Carls Jr, Wendy's, you name it, they got it.

It's hard to beat those $1 double double's from Burger King in taste, but if I have to make my own burger I would rather have something different for my refeed.

The trouble with BK is that you keep tasting it for hours after you eat it. After my 1st show I drove around pissed off for about 2 hours trying to clear my head and nothing was open by the time I was hungry, so I opted for BK. I was burping that shit the next day on the drive home!