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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC123Jm View Post
    fuck this natty nonsense. just juice up. not saying you need to
    go crazy, but just a little bump. what if it was just known as
    a supplement and not steroids and they sold it at GNC.
    would you try a little then? dont give me the health debate,
    i'm just talking a tiny bit for an extra edge. just as safe as
    using protein powder.
    haha... yeah, but thats quite an analogy bro...
    what do you think about long term addiction to AAS?
    is it possible?
    i mean sure, we can all start with 'a little bump'
    but how many can keep it at that?

    how long before it becomes 250/500/750/1000/1500g a week?
    and where will it stop?
    with not ever coming off?
    and what would happen if you did? or were forced to?

    could you take shrinking, no matter how hard you trained
    how much you ate?
    getting weaker & weaker instead of progressing?

    how would that affect a person mentally?
    and what would be the repercussions of that...
    and in that moment, would you look back on that first 'little bump'
    and wish you never took that road at all?
    that it was never worth it in the end?

    but like i said, for all of us, that day will come when the thought enters our minds....
    and whats worse... living with the question constantly gnawing at your mind?
    or jumping in & wishing you never had?

    to each their own, this is our one shot at life, so choose wisely & live with it, is what im sayin...

  2. #47
    GYM RAT txhawkeyes's Avatar
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    Srunt, I am 6'1" tall, and started back lifting in May 09. I have lifted 3-4 times each week, no cardio, for 2.5 years now. I am 47 years old now, and it has been hard work, no doubt about it. But I was at 162 when I started in May 09, and I popped up over 200 two weeks ago. Got 202 as an all time high. Then I got a synus infection last week, and had to stay out of the gym for a week. Back down to 192 in 7 days ! Did it all with protein and carbs and sleep.

    That is only about 1.25 pounds a month. I don't know why anyone can't add a pound a month. I wear the same pants I had back in 09, cause suits are too expensive to replace. Over half of my shirts are too small now, but beings they are white dress shirts, I wear them without a tie.

    It takes the discipline of doing the same thing for over two years straight...and most of it is all what you eat. That and slowing your metabolism down a little...for me anyway. Think about that, a pound a month...that's not a lot. And for the first year and a half, I never even knew about using Carbs in my post shake !

    You only plateau because you are doing the same old thing. If you repeat the same thing over and over (routine, diet, etc) you do plateau. Try finding a 12 week workout that goes through 4 phases. I gained the most on the deloading phase. It seems odd, because I was only in the gym 30 minutes those days...but it is all due to the first 9 weeks that it worked so well.

    Try eating two snickers and drinking 40 g of protein in milk 35 minutes pre lift. Then do a post shake too. Its old fashioned...but it still works. That got me an extra 7 pounds or so over a few weeks. And you would think it would add fat just cause it is candy..but my ABs are in great shape. It didn't add any fat. My BF is still about 15 %.

  3. #48
    GYM RAT txhawkeyes's Avatar
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    Almost forgot.


    You need to look at where you can be in .... October 2015. That's a good goal. Start a new 12 week routine every quarter, and take a week off out of the gym after each one.

    And those guys who are always in the gym screwing around....and not getting anything accomplished....maybe not a good idea to do the same workout. I had guys who got me strong for 9 months, but not any bigger. All they did was a warmup set, then a few sets very heavy with 4-5 reps. It takes a whole plan...

    Get your blood work done. There is a lot that will show you and the Doc, that no one can see in the gym.

    I tried when I was in my 20's, and couldn't get anywhere. Then in my 30's still nothing. Now I got something done in my 40's. And I hated when everyone that was successful said, "It's 20 % gym, and 80 % diet."

    Then I found out its true. It's a lot more fun to lift weights with girls watching in the gym, then it is to put a good diet to work over a couple years when no one can see what you're doing.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by txhawkeyes View Post
    Try eating two snickers and drinking 40 g of protein in milk 35 minutes pre lift. Then do a post shake too. Its old fashioned...but it still works. That got me an extra 7 pounds or so over a few weeks. And you would think it would add fat just cause it is candy..but my ABs are in great shape. It didn't add any fat. My BF is still about 15 %.
    pics or it didnt happen....haha

    gotta love "old fashioned"... if i did that id become a tub of lard inside a month...

    7 lbs in a couple weeks with no anabolic assistance and you think its all genuine muscle? not calling you out or anything, but cmon....

  5. #50
    RX MEMBER fishmeat's Avatar
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    I trained for 6 yrs natty. Did my research. Had the lifestyle down pat. Ate every 3 hrs @ 6-7 meals ed. Slept 8-10hrs a night. All that good shit.. I got to 160lbs @ 7%..

    First roll:
    500mg sust a wk
    600mg eq a wk
    6 iu gh ed
    T3
    Arimidex

    I ran this for 16 wks. Pct'd & stayed on the gh the whole time..
    Finished at 195lbs, 5%... never ever dropped below 180... not even when I was in the hospital. Gh solidified my gains & re set my "set point"... I've always been healthy, always had good genes...

    If only I'd discovered bb'ing in my 20's...... time... its one thing we do.t get back..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Violator View Post
    haha... yeah, but thats quite an analogy bro...
    what do you think about long term addiction to AAS?
    is it possible?
    i mean sure, we can all start with 'a little bump'
    but how many can keep it at that?

    how long before it becomes 250/500/750/1000/1500g a week?
    and where will it stop?
    with not ever coming off?
    and what would happen if you did? or were forced to?

    could you take shrinking, no matter how hard you trained
    how much you ate?
    getting weaker & weaker instead of progressing?

    how would that affect a person mentally?
    and what would be the repercussions of that...
    and in that moment, would you look back on that first 'little bump'
    and wish you never took that road at all?
    that it was never worth it in the end?

    but like i said, for all of us, that day will come when the thought enters our minds....
    and whats worse... living with the question constantly gnawing at your mind?
    or jumping in & wishing you never had?

    to each their own, this is our one shot at life, so choose wisely & live with it, is what im sayin...

    dude seriously, its called self control. that's like saying i shouldn't have a social drink on a Saturday night because that will lead to more and eventually i will become an alcoholic.

    look, bottom line, if you just want to be "healthy" and look fit then there
    is no need to hit the shit, unless of course you are a totally genetic misfit.
    if thats the case just pick another hobby. i mean not everyone is cut out to look like a bodybuilder, natty or not.

    if your goal is to look like a real bodybuilder. big, round, full, ripped , grainy, vascular,muscle.
    chances are you're gonna need to juice to some degree.so why kid yourself

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC123Jm View Post
    if your goal is to look like a real bodybuilder. big, round, full, ripped , grainy, vascular,muscle.
    chances are you're gonna need to juice to some degree.so why kid yourself
    hey bro, ur speaking to the converted here! i agree with what ur saying... what im trying to get across is that many cats think that that one cycle will be enough... and dont think about the long term plan and where it will lead them..

    everyones personality is different and some are more prone to addiction than others... its takes really knowing yourself before you can be in a position to make that decision... just simply jumping in feet first can lead to huge problems down the road...

    that being said, i do believe that in order to look like a real bodybuilder, heck, even an MPD competitior to some degree, you will need anabolic assistance... or it just wont happen...unless ur a freaky mutant by nature... and shit, the chances of that are very slim...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Violator View Post
    i gained very well in the first 3, but put on a lot of BF "just trying to get huge" when i did my first diet, it was quite a mindfuck to go from 210 to 155...

    ..
    I see this all the time - people getting fat thinking they're making muscular gains, only to diet down and realise what's really underneath the flab!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishmeat View Post
    I trained for 6 yrs natty. Did my research. Had the lifestyle down pat. Ate every 3 hrs @ 6-7 meals ed. Slept 8-10hrs a night. All that good shit.. I got to 160lbs @ 7%..
    I can relate to this so much! You follow everything by the book with your nutrition, training, sleep, and not to see signifcant results is like a kick in the teeth! It's like said earlier about the pro wrestling comparison - you feel like you've been tricked and sold a lie! It's such a convincing lie too, because even reading up academically, in theory the muscles should continue to grow if the training and nutrition and recovery is there, but in practice that just doesn't seem to be the case!

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by txhawkeyes View Post
    Almost forgot.


    You need to look at where you can be in .... October 2015. That's a good goal. Start a new 12 week routine every quarter, and take a week off out of the gym after each one.

    And those guys who are always in the gym screwing around....and not getting anything accomplished....maybe not a good idea to do the same workout. I had guys who got me strong for 9 months, but not any bigger. All they did was a warmup set, then a few sets very heavy with 4-5 reps. It takes a whole plan...

    Get your blood work done. There is a lot that will show you and the Doc, that no one can see in the gym.

    I tried when I was in my 20's, and couldn't get anywhere. Then in my 30's still nothing. Now I got something done in my 40's. And I hated when everyone that was successful said, "It's 20 % gym, and 80 % diet."

    Then I found out its true. It's a lot more fun to lift weights with girls watching in the gym, then it is to put a good diet to work over a couple years when no one can see what you're doing.
    I appreciate the feedback here. Since you sound like you feel you've been able to make progress, do you mind sharing what your diet and training looks like please? Also, if you can actually can grow, then would you say it's not possible to do so without getting fat in the process?



    With me, I competed last year at a natural show at 175lbs ripped and placed mediocre. I competed this year after training like a mad man, but ending up at the exact same weight, once again placing mediocre!

    To get a bit philosophical, I am a very driven person, and it is the prospect of progressing and bettering myself that really gives me a kick. But going by my contest performance over these last 2 years, how do I better myself? If I'm not growing bigger, then you might suggest by coming in leaner, but to be honest I don't see that being naturally possible either, as I was so lean that even my glutes were striated!

    Also, the guys who placed better than me were in fact smaller than me, but genetically they were simply "grainier" looking. Sizewise, they were skrawny looking, in fact they didn't even look like guys who lift weights, they just looked malnourished skeletons! So another frustrating point is that competitive natural bodybuilding seems to be more of a case of "bodyshrinking" - lets award the guy who looks like skin and bones!

    So back to the question, how do I better myself? Seeing as strength gains DO seem possible as opposed to size gains, do I switch over to drug-free powerlifting? Except drug-free powerlifting is an even smaller scale sport than natural bodybuilding, so it seems no point in that either!

    In conclusion to my rant, perhaps the only way is in fact to take the plunge and turn to the darkside............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinnyrunt View Post
    I appreciate the feedback here. Since you sound like you feel you've been able to make progress, do you mind sharing what your diet and training looks like please? Also, if you can actually can grow, then would you say it's not possible to do so without getting fat in the process?



    With me, I competed last year at a natural show at 175lbs ripped and placed mediocre. I competed this year after training like a mad man, but ending up at the exact same weight, once again placing mediocre!

    To get a bit philosophical, I am a very driven person, and it is the prospect of progressing and bettering myself that really gives me a kick. But going by my contest performance over these last 2 years, how do I better myself? If I'm not growing bigger, then you might suggest by coming in leaner, but to be honest I don't see that being naturally possible either, as I was so lean that even my glutes were striated!

    Also, the guys who placed better than me were in fact smaller than me, but genetically they were simply "grainier" looking. Sizewise, they were skrawny looking, in fact they didn't even look like guys who lift weights, they just looked malnourished skeletons! So another frustrating point is that competitive natural bodybuilding seems to be more of a case of "bodyshrinking" - lets award the guy who looks like skin and bones!

    So back to the question, how do I better myself? Seeing as strength gains DO seem possible as opposed to size gains, do I switch over to drug-free powerlifting? Except drug-free powerlifting is an even smaller scale sport than natural bodybuilding, so it seems no point in that either!

    In conclusion to my rant, perhaps the only way is in fact to take the plunge and turn to the darkside............



    post up some pics bro. I will give you an honest opinion of if this is
    the right sport for you. like i said , not everyone has the genetics
    to be a competitive Bodybuilder. natty or not

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC123Jm View Post
    post up some pics bro. I will give you an honest opinion of if this is
    the right sport for you. like i said , not everyone has the genetics
    to be a competitive Bodybuilder. natty or not
    I'm not hell bent on making it as a pro, I just want to continue to progress for my own satisfaction. But sure, here are some pics. Blanked out my face since I don't want my mug all over the internet, but I assure you it's me in the pics.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinnyrunt View Post
    I'm not hell bent on making it as a pro, I just want to continue to progress for my own satisfaction. But sure, here are some pics. Blanked out my face since I don't want my mug all over the internet, but I assure you it's me in the pics.
    wheels are thick for a natty. contest shape needs better conditioning since you dont have the upper body thickness you have in legs. probably why you placed behind the other "skinny" guys.

    back looks thick in that off season shot. thats the tough thing about being natty, you cant hold that size and come in peeled at the same time.

    i think with better conditioning you will place higher even if you lose a touch of size. most good nattys ive seen come in sliced to the fucking bone and thats what the judges seem to favor.

    my over all opinion just based on those pics is not bad. not overly impressive but not bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Violator View Post
    i tend to agree with this...

    i spent the last 7 years seriously training as a natty. from 25yrs/o to 32...

    i have average to low genetics, but my training for the last 7 has been on point, my diet has been good & i even quit drinking, apart from the odd occassion, when i was 27.

    i gained very well in the first 3, but put on a lot of BF "just trying to get huge" when i did my first diet, it was quite a mindfuck to go from 210 to 155...

    ive been progressing slowly for the last 4 years, but no where as quickly as the first 3...

    i think i remember BLP saying something like, "become a big natural 15 yrs hard work"...yeah, that sounds about right to me....

    i think, for me, bodybuilding was kinda like pro wrestling, it took a long time to realise that it was all an act, that it was all staged... and it was kinda crushing to my spirit... same thing learning that BBing is all just drugs at the end of the day (being that training/diet/recovery are equal) some peeps just cant handle that.... but i think its the truth...

    so how bad do you want it? u wanna be bigger, leaner, meaner? how quickly u wanna get there? one thing i have learned is that having a solid base of quite a couple of years under the bar before stepping into drugs is a valuable thing.....

    but the time will come for you all where you fac e the decision of taking up the drugs or not, no matter who you are or how far along you are in your training, that day will come when you consider using...

    & what will your answer be?

    i know what mine was... funnily enough, if youd asked me it 4 years ago, heck even two years ago... it might have been very different...

    tick tock....

    Thank you man! I try to tell people and they get so mad and offended.... but its the truth.... gains are extremely slow! most people like you said just cant handle it and they get angry and start spurting out all this numbers and don't realize a lot of what the thought was muscle was just water and fat gain!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC123Jm View Post
    wheels are thick for a natty. contest shape needs better conditioning since you dont have the upper body thickness you have in legs. probably why you placed behind the other "skinny" guys.

    back looks thick in that off season shot. thats the tough thing about being natty, you cant hold that size and come in peeled at the same time.

    i think with better conditioning you will place higher even if you lose a touch of size. most good nattys ive seen come in sliced to the fucking bone and thats what the judges seem to favor.

    my over all opinion just based on those pics is not bad. not overly impressive but not bad.
    honest and great critique!

    only thing i could add is that hams need bringing up...

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    Thanks for the feedback guys, appreciate the honesty. Just want to reiterate the point that I'm not in it to be a pro, I just love training. But a main part of that love is seeing progression, which I'm really struggling with now. I'd love to bring up those weaknesses, but I'm really not seeing progress lately. Comes back to that dilemma of juicing or finding a new hobby

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    GYM RAT txhawkeyes's Avatar
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    Violator, if I was a young buck with an ego, I would post pictures.
    But,

    1- I was super skinny at 162, now I still see myself as pretty skinny at 195. So what's the point? I am not a body builder, I lift weights and try to add muscle. Also, I do 6-8 sets of 15 Hanging Wipers every time I walk into the gym. So there is very little fat around my waist.

    2- I am 47, have two kids, wife and I full time job, etc. I don't know HOW to post pictures, much less care.

    3- Like some guys, I don't have an ego and a need to throw out info to make myself seem cool. I really kind of an ugly guy, who is still about 20 pounds too skinny at 6'1", and just trying to offer what little help I have figured out over the last two years.

    4- Next show you are at, look for Uncle Attilla and ask him if I was really skinny two years ago, and if I am still pretty skinny (but 35-40 lbs heavier) now. He'll say yeah. 200 pounds for a guy that is 47, and 6'1" is nothing to brag about dude. But I'm a lot happier now than I was with where I was in a 32 waste and 38 L Jacket back two years ago.

    I'm not here to brag. I don't know that much, and I'm not that big.

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    Quote Originally Posted by txhawkeyes View Post
    Violator, if I was a young buck with an ego, I would post pictures.
    But,

    1- I was super skinny at 162, now I still see myself as pretty skinny at 195. So what's the point? I am not a body builder, I lift weights and try to add muscle. Also, I do 6-8 sets of 15 Hanging Wipers every time I walk into the gym. So there is very little fat around my waist.

    2- I am 47, have two kids, wife and I full time job, etc. I don't know HOW to post pictures, much less care.

    3- Like some guys, I don't have an ego and a need to throw out info to make myself seem cool. I really kind of an ugly guy, who is still about 20 pounds too skinny at 6'1", and just trying to offer what little help I have figured out over the last two years.

    4- Next show you are at, look for Uncle Attilla and ask him if I was really skinny two years ago, and if I am still pretty skinny (but 35-40 lbs heavier) now. He'll say yeah. 200 pounds for a guy that is 47, and 6'1" is nothing to brag about dude. But I'm a lot happier now than I was with where I was in a 32 waste and 38 L Jacket back two years ago.

    I'm not here to brag. I don't know that much, and I'm not that big.



    nothing wrong with a little ego old man (lol, i'm 40)
    sounds like you made some good progress. thats bragging rights.

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    GYM RAT txhawkeyes's Avatar
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    Skinny,

    I have tried to have 4-5 protein shakes a day along with my 3-4 meals. Again, being a Dad, I can't just throw everything aside....this is a hobby.

    I do a lot of Hanging Wipers (ala a guy named Ben Booker) so I don't have much of anything around my waist. My Abs are covered a little with a little fat. Prob 14 % this week. The choc bar deal was given to me buy a guy named BBB from T Nation site. And it worked. At that particular time I was in the last 3 weeks of Meadows 4 day workout, what he calls his Deloading Phase. And he said I would add muscle in that phase. That probably helped..but aided by the choc bars and 40 g pre protein.

    I had luck with Carbo Gain from NOW, mixed in my post shake. That is something I was NEVER aware of at all till last Spring. Every new guy knows about protein powder...but Carbs in the post shake followed by food is essential for me. (they also make me feel bloated, but I have force in food after)

    I also talked to Jeff Neal, from Team Impact, about a year ago. He told me the old fashioned..."you will always have a little gut when you are gaining." I did for 9-10 months...and that may have helped too. But, now it's gone.


    I totally understand your frustration. I am a driven, German, Hardworking guy from the Northern Midwest. My problem with all that, is that I tend to overtrain. When I started leaving the gym after 50 minutes of lifting, resting more, and slowing my metabolism, it helped me a lot. I feel like at my age, I get 45 minutes of fuel to lift, then I quit. I usually have a 12 ounce of Apple Juice waiting in car, to help keep my Cortisol levels down per someone really smart, and to give me some Glucose for a little energy.

    And I eat like a guy who is really busy and has a family...not great. But on workout days...my pre shake 40 minutes before lifting is 2 Hershey bars, with 40 g protein mixed in milk with 2-3 heaping tbspns of Cocoa from the baking aisle, along with one purple KreAlkylin pill. Then my post when I get home is 20 g protein in milk, with 40 g waxy maize powder or Carbo Gain or some powdered carbs.

    Something in that schedule is working. While lifting I drink a lot of water. And I gave up on pre workout Superpumps and No Explodes....they wake me up at night too much. The chocolate thing...I'm not that smart. But look up old articles on guys who drink choc milk post workout...gotta be something there.

    Back to your frustration....the hardest thing I have done is slow down. It's against my norm, but I have been able to add muscle. And I never ever do cardio. Period.


    I hope something I wrote helps. Nothing that great, but maybe something will help. I "dare" you to try the choc bars and 40 g protein pre. See what happens. On the T Nation site, I and 4-5 other guys confirmed it doesn't add fat. You BURN everything in the bar in the gym.
    It's not like you are eating a jar of Mayonaise or something.....

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    GYM RAT txhawkeyes's Avatar
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    Skinny,


    I looked at your pictures, and ignore my earlier post about setting a goal for 2015, staying away from idiots in the gym, etc. I'm sorry...you are

    WAY ahead of what I thought. I just saw that you only had 15 posts and assumed you were new to all of this. But your pictures are awesome. I probably can't add much....you are way ahead of me.

    The only thing I could tell you, is that the moment I eat a lot of food and start to develope a gut, the Hanging Wipers take it right off. So I don't do cardio and other stuff for fat loss. In my mind, the Wipers directly hit my one and only area that I put on fat. ? But in my mind, it's a VERY small place !


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    Thanks Hawk Eyes. I think the main point I can take from this personally is perhaps try and eat more and try some how to slow my metabolism.

    I'd also like to say that I've got a lot of admiration for guys like you who manage to balance their lifting / eating with family / work. Admittedly, I run a buisness so work about 10 hrs a day, usually 7 days a week, but I'm single and 24 and couldn't even imagine trying to have a girlfriend and train on top of that!

    I'm also a big fan of hanging wipers, and alternate them with hanging leg raises every session. At work I'm on my feet all day so don't do any cardio either. I hit the gym 4 days a week, first thing on a morning before work, so don't think I could stomach chocolate bars pre workout. Usually I just a have a shake and couple rice cakes in the car on the way to the gym, but I might try upping my post workout carbs with a Snickers or something.

    I train for 1 hr at a time, so an option for me might be to cut that down to 45 mins, and to reduce it from 4 sessions a week to 3 a week. I normally eat 4 times a day with 3 shakes on top, so might try and squeeze another meal / shake in there.
    Last edited by Skinnyrunt; 10-06-2011 at 01:22 PM.

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    I'm natural right now but don't plan to be forever. I remember the days where I thought I could look like Jay Cutler eventually with just protein powder and enough hard work. It is really hard to motivate myself to keep on this road only gaining maybe 2 pounds a year. I admire naturals so much because it is so difficult to do.

    For me personally I feel it would be a waste to go like I am for for the next 25+ years and end up not looking anywhere where I want. I'm not saying with juice I'll get there either but I have a better shot. I lift religiously, sleep 8 hours at least a night, rarely party, don't drink or smoke, and eat the same meals everyday. I'm either big and fat or ripped and skinny depending on the diet. Its just not fun anymore and is frustrating. Again, much respect to life-time naturals, because they have to work harder than juicers and get much less results. I just don't see the point of that for me personally though.

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    Yeah man, feel ya. Was gonna add to my last post, if these changes still don't work then screw it, I'm either juicing it, or switching to golf or chess or, table tennis, synchronised swimming.....

  24. #69
    GYM RAT txhawkeyes's Avatar
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    Skinny,

    I just sent you an email, let me know if you get it. Not quite sure how this site does all that stuff, way over my head !


    Thanks.

  25. #70

  26. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by txhawkeyes View Post
    Skinny,

    I just sent you an email, let me know if you get it. Not quite sure how this site does all that stuff, way over my head !


    Thanks.
    Hey bro, no my settings didn't allow for messages but I think I fixed that. Just sent you a message now.

    Thanks man

  27. #72
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    After 15 years of training i'm still progressing, but i have to admit that at the beginning i did a lot of mistakes, especially nutrition wise.

  28. #73
    Gym Mechanic seanmech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHardBody View Post
    After 15 years of training i'm still progressing, but i have to admit that at the beginning i did a lot of mistakes, especially nutrition wise.
    Totaly agree, its not an easy road and to be shredded and still look like a bodybuilder is much harder

  29. #74
    Gym Mechanic seanmech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinnyrunt View Post
    Hey,
    Just curious to know how many out there are actually making real muscle gains? Is it even possible?

    From my personal experience, and from what I see daily, it seems that you will grow during your first 3 months or so of weight training only to plateau and not actually add muscle size there after.

    Now I'm talking about gains in muscle size here, not gains in strength. These in my opinion are different things. All too often I see guys who compete naturally go on their offseason bulk in which they'll up their carb intake, see their abs start to fade, and because the scales are going up and their strength is increasing they assume that their muscles are growing bigger. However, once they diet down for the next season they end up stepping on stage weighing and looking exactly as they did the year before!

    I see this happening over and over with so many people, so I really wanted to see if there are guys out there who are genuinely continuing to make natural gains. I need to have my faith in naturally bodybuilding restored!

    Thanks.
    6 months training

    6 years training, No body said it was easy! And there's no quick fix in the Natural game but thats 176lbs in 2004, and 238lbs in jan 2012

  30. #75
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    Did not read asides OP

    If you can't make gains naturally the only thing that'll happen when you get on gear is you'll put on a quick 10lb and lose it all when you come off. I was able to go from 136 to 197 naturally and maintain similar body fat in 3 years with no gear, so to anyone who thinks or says you can't put on gains naturally I call bullshit. You probably need to learn your body more and adjust your diet and training until you find what works for you so you know how to grow. Its not worth risking your health and man hood when you clearly have not come near maxing out your natural gains.

    If you want to see some of my pics from my glory days (136 lol) check on my log in the SNAC section


    http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthrea...10#post1627710

    Last edited by Waylon; 03-04-2012 at 04:02 PM.

  31. #76
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    way too much whiteness and awkward small circle surrounded by pube bro ^^^

  32. #77
    Gym Mechanic seanmech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waylon View Post
    way too much whiteness and awkward small circle surrounded by pube bro ^^^
    Sorry bro, better 2 cover it up!! Theres youngsters on here lol, Dont get much sun in the UK dude

  33. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanmech View Post
    Sorry bro, better 2 cover it up!! Theres youngsters on here lol, Dont get much sun in the UK dude
    Lol hey it's off-season, who cares.


  34. #79
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    I am natural when I dieted down to the point I had good abs.... I looked like a skinny little kid and flatter than a pancake.... most nattys look so skinny on stage... only a few with great genetics can pull it off..... nattys imo look best between 7-10% full..... it is very hard either skinny and ripped or full and a bit chubby for nattys... like i said unless you have great genes like JROD......

  35. #80
    RX MEMBER Forrest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minnphat View Post
    With natural bodybuilding people greatly underestimate their BF% and after the first few years the gains come extremely slow esp if you have average genes.... If you gain 1-2 lbs of pure muscle a year after your first 2-3 years that's about normal.... its sucks but as least you know you worked for it...
    This definitely could be accurate for some people but it will be also be dependent on their age, training, diet and activity levels. When I was in my early 20's, I worked my butt off to get from 170 to 200 pounds. Once I hit about 26-28 years old, my metabolism noticeably changed along with my strength and size. Now it's very difficult to get under 200 pounds. At this stage in my life (35 years old, training for over 15), I'd be thrilled to gain 2 pounds for my next show. Provided I make some improvement each time, I'm happy.

    For anyone thinking that by accepting this is "mentally stopping" your progress, perhaps you're not as close to your maximum potential and in time your gains will slow too. Provided a person is not sabotaging or slacking off on diet, training or any other recovery aspect of bodybuilding, having realistic expectations won't stop or slow growth but instead will provide an understanding when not doing as well as the magazines, forum experts and others may lead to believe.

    Bodybuilding is more a marathon than a sprint.

  36. #81
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    very simple, natural bodybuilding is possible only if you plan on entering natural contests..

  37. #82
    RX MEMBER Forrest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drmarkp View Post
    very simple, natural bodybuilding is possible only if you plan on entering natural contests..
    ...Unless you're good enough to compete in the open shows. I'm not saying I'm a great bodybuilder but I have competed in an open show and taken 2nd out of 12 light heavyweights. I've done natural shows the last couple years but I have thought about doing another open show to try and win my class.

  38. #83
    RX MEMBER D_T's Avatar
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    I won my first show 100% natty...of course it was 1983 and I was a teen so things were a bit different. LOL.

    I started juicing two months later.

  39. #84
    RX MEMBER Friendly Milkshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_T View Post
    I started juicing two months later.
    I think you were onto something there!

  40. #85
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    possible for those who actualy give it 100. if your not gaining, then time to revise what your NOT doing right.

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