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  1. #1
    Forum Leader Hammerfit's Avatar
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    Default Hardcore Training by Dorian Yates

    Must You Squat, Deadlift, and Bench Press to be Hardcore?
    Let’s start with squats. When I started training in 1984, Tom Platz was the man. Prior to Platz, legs had never been a big deal in bodybuilding. Once ‘The Golden Eagle’ came on the scene with those incredible legs of his, all that changed. Tom was known for his brutal squat workouts. In my gym, as in most gyms where serious bodybuilders trained at that time, you weren’t even considered a real man unless you squatted. So I did my best, but my body wasn’t structurally suited for squats. My hips were rather small for my frame, which was a liability when it came to heavy squats. I tore a muscle in my hip and underwent surgery. This was before I even turned pro.
    I should also note that as hard as I did work on squats up to that point, my leg development was nothing really special. After my surgery, I never did a single set of squats again. I used Smith machine squats, the leg press, and the hack squat. I found that for me, those exercises did a much better job at working my quads, whereas squats had always involved a lot of lower back and glutes. I still say that the barbell squat is a wonderful exercise for some people. For anyone who plays a sport like football or soccer, they are a great all-around movement and will help develop superb core strength. But in my case, squats never delivered the best results. I managed to win six Mr. Olympia titles without them, and my legs became two of my better body parts.
    I also stopped doing flat barbell bench presses very early on in my bodybuilding career. They weren’t doing much for my pecs, so I saw no point in keeping them in my workouts. Incline and decline barbell presses worked much better for me. As for deadlifts, I did them, but at the end of my back workouts. That limited the amount of weight I could use to no more than 405-495 pounds, but I was never hung up on how much I could lift in any movement. The goal was always to develop my physique, not puff up my ego. Also, I only did the first set from the floor. After that, all sets were from the shins up, as I didn’t care to involve the quads and glutes any more than was necessary.
    To sum up, those three power lifts are wonderful if they work well for you and you can do them safely. If not, you’re not hardcore for doing them— you’re foolish!

  2. #2
    OLYMPIAN The Big Sexy's Avatar
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    Top Squat... boom, takes back out of it and puts it all on your quads, hams, glutes. My shit is on fire for days and days after squat day now. Back, nada.

    BUt I agree, you don't HAVE to do Squats.



  3. #3
    Forum Leader Hammerfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Sexy View Post
    Top Squat... boom, takes back out of it and puts it all on your quads, hams, glutes. My shit is on fire for days and days after squat day now. Back, nada.

    BUt I agree, you don't HAVE to do Squats.
    I agree, top squats are bad ass! I have been doing the front squat version w a bench. Brutal.

  4. #4
    RX MEMBER mrky03's Avatar
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    I have to say, I've been a die hard squatter all my life. I recently switched over to DY's workout and my legs are responding great. None of the nagging injurys that I usually incur from heavy free weight squats. Now I'm not saying I won't squat again but if I do it will be after extensions and leg press. I have paid my dues squatting and I believe anyone just getting into training should.

  5. #5
    Forum Leader Hammerfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrky03 View Post
    I have to say, I've been a die hard squatter all my life. I recently switched over to DY's workout and my legs are responding great. None of the nagging injurys that I usually incur from heavy free weight squats. Now I'm not saying I won't squat again but if I do it will be after extensions and leg press. I have paid my dues squatting and I believe anyone just getting into training should.
    Great point. Squats, deadlift and bench are a must. What I have found that is working for me: if you squat one week;dont deadlift that week. If you deadlift, dont squat under a bar. I found that squatting under a bar and dead lifting in the same week was wrecking my CNS and my back would be killing by the end of the week. If I deadlift, I will squat in smith machine so I can let go of the bar and focus on my legs without the stress on my back.

  6. #6
    RX MEMBER mrky03's Avatar
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    That's a good idea and something that I have thought about doing. I have made good gains dead lifting every other week.

  7. #7
    OLYMPIAN KevinCouch's Avatar
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    I'd agree too about the big 3 exercises for maximum developmnent. Fortunately, I've been able to return to squats this past year and it's made a difference in my leg development but the deadliifts are out. I've never been able to do these very effectively even as a young guy. Probably my genetic predisposition to lower back injury. I have also returned to heavy "dorian" reverse grip bentover rows wich has thickenedd back up my back but it's really not the same as deadlifts but I have to make due with what I can do.

  8. #8
    Forum Leader Hammerfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinCouch View Post
    I'd agree too about the big 3 exercises for maximum developmnent. Fortunately, I've been able to return to squats this past year and it's made a difference in my leg development but the deadliifts are out. I've never been able to do these very effectively even as a young guy. Probably my genetic predisposition to lower back injury. I have also returned to heavy "dorian" reverse grip bentover rows wich has thickenedd back up my back but it's really not the same as deadlifts but I have to make due with what I can do.
    Kev, have you tried the combo dead/row? checkout how Branch is doing them on MD, I think its called a pendlay row. It's effectively both moves at the same time. Usually when someone is having a hard time with deads its the hip insertion point. TNation has some great video on this.

  9. #9
    RX MEMBER mrky03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinCouch View Post
    I'd agree too about the big 3 exercises for maximum developmnent. Fortunately, I've been able to return to squats this past year and it's made a difference in my leg development but the deadliifts are out. I've never been able to do these very effectively even as a young guy. Probably my genetic predisposition to lower back injury. I have also returned to heavy "dorian" reverse grip bentover rows wich has thickenedd back up my back but it's really not the same as deadlifts but I have to make due with what I can do.
    Kevin, I don't see anything lacking in your physique! Whatever you have been doing has certainly worked well!

  10. #10

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    The Big 3 are good because they activate so much muscle mass when you do them. There are other exercises and combinations which will hit the same muscle fibers, just not at the same time. Leg presses, rows, dips and chins will get the job done as willl push presses and power cleans and snatches. Sometimes you have to get creative.

  11. #11
    OLYMPIAN KevinCouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrky03 View Post
    Kevin, I don't see anything lacking in your physique! Whatever you have been doing has certainly worked well!
    Thanks Joel!! You to brother! You have a very complete physique. The difference is I'm shorter and I've had a little easier time filling out my frame. I guess us short guys have advantages in just a few areas. lol...

    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyDutyGuy View Post
    The Big 3 are good because they activate so much muscle mass when you do them. There are other exercises and combinations which will hit the same muscle fibers, just not at the same time. Leg presses, rows, dips and chins will get the job done as willl push presses and power cleans and snatches. Sometimes you have to get creative.
    I'd agree there too. We're all pretty much old school and I still do most of the old school exercises, always have . Wide Grip Pullups--always, Dips (weighted) always.
    Good ole fasion squats is my favorite. Nothing like getting under a lot of weight completing a full set!!!! My fav for sure.

    I do compensate for not being able to do deadlifts with lots of rowing motions (very heavy too).

    At our ages we just do what we can still do to build muscle WITHOUT getting injured again.

  12. #12
    RX MEMBER masterschamp's Avatar
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    This is a very intersting topic...even though alot of the younger physiques are huge...I just don't see the quality of years of FREE WEIGHT training. To me, it gives the body a completely different look and just reinforces the value of "old school" training.

    Keith

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