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  1. #226
    OLYMPIAN s2h's Avatar
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    GM it would depend on what kind of test and how much but i would tell a BBF to run 50 mg a week for no more than 6 weeks to keep a feminne look ,but all girls a re different,i diffffff,wouldnt recommend 500mg like there was in a recent post.

  2. #227
    OLYMPIAN s2h's Avatar
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    50mg of prop

  3. #228
    Super Moderator sassy69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyMuscle View Post
    Is there a standard length of time a women should or shouldn't run a test cycle?

    A typical Test Propioinate cycle is going to be something like 15-25 mg E3D and could run for I suppose 8-10 weeks. Depends on what your purpose is - e.g. off-season or prep. There's really no reason to use Cypionate or Enanthate, primarily because these are the longer esters and if you don't like the sides, you're stuck w/ them for a pretty long time.
    "The only way you can hurt the body is not use it. Inactivity is the killer and, remember, it's never too late."
    ~Jack Lalanne



  4. #229
    Super Moderator sassy69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s2h View Post
    I can agree w/ that Sassy,that is way i think the Npc and ifbb are going to a softer look to keep the girls from doing just what you stated and thats use more drugs and not enough gym time,and i left out a few(rememeber i'm a man i can only rememeber so much)proviron,eq,mast and a lil prop are all good for the experienced BB'r female also.Did you check out the girl i said got 6th,i talked to her today and she's frustrated cause she doesnt know if she should stay w/ bikini or go to figure(she has a had some success at figure)whata think?

    Just to keep this thread on topic, you might start a new thread for her.
    "The only way you can hurt the body is not use it. Inactivity is the killer and, remember, it's never too late."
    ~Jack Lalanne



  5. #230
    IFBB PRO, Bros V Pros X Champion The Prodigy's Avatar
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    Will anyone share a successful cycle they have run? What compounds do you think pros are using?

  6. #231
    RX MEMBER BiggTexx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistersteel View Post
    Tat, CJC1295 makes the body produce more growth hormone without shutting natural production down. The amount produced is significantly higher than what you would usually supplement with.

    I have research that proves that CJC increases GH production tenfold which makes it very risky for women (despite the great benefits of increased GH). The morphed faces of bodybuilders, including enlarged foreheads and brow ridge, along with the jaw squaring are all results of excess growth.....not steroids!

    Any other particular peptides you have in mind? There are tons of them, with very few clinical studies, and only anecdotal evidence.
    K. C. Leung, N. Doyle, M. Ballesteros, K. Sjogren, C. K. W. Watts, T. H. Low, G. M. Leong, R. J. M. Ross, and K. K. Y. Ho. Estrogen inhibits GH signaling by suppressing GH-induced JAK2 phosphorylation, an effect mediated by SOCS-2. PNAS. February 4, 2003 vol. 100 no. 3 1016-1021.

    Abstract

    Oral estrogen administration attenuates the metabolic action of growth hormone (GH) in humans. To investigate the mechanism involved, we studied the effects of estrogen on GH signaling through Janus kinase (JAK)2 and the signal transducers and activators of transcription (STATs) in HEK293 cells stably expressing the GH receptor (293GHR), HuH7 (hepatoma) and T-47D (breast cancer) cells. 293GHR cells were transiently transfected with an estrogen receptor-α expression plasmid and luciferase reporters with binding elements for STAT3 and STAT5 or the β-casein promoter. GH stimulated the reporter activities by four- to sixfold. Cotreatment with 17β-estradiol (E2) resulted in a dose-dependent reduction in the response of all three reporters to GH to a maximum of 49–66% of control at 100 nM (P < 0.05). No reduction was seen when E2 was added 1–2 h after GH treatment. Similar inhibitory effects were observed in HuH7 and T-47D cells. E2 suppressed GH-induced JAK2 phosphorylation, an effect attenuated by actinomycin D, suggesting a requirement for gene expression. Next, we investigated the role of the suppressors of cytokine signaling (SOCS) in E2 inhibition. E2 increased the mRNA abundance of SOCS-2 but not SOCS-1 and SOCS-3 in HEK293 cells. The inhibitory effect of E2 was absent in cells lacking SOCS-2 but not in those lacking SOCS-1 and SOCS-3. In conclusion, estrogen inhibits GH signaling, an action mediated by SOCS-2. This paper provides evidence for regulatory interaction between a sex steroid and the GH/JAK/STAT pathway, in which SOCS-2 plays a central mechanistic role.




    This is just one of a few studies that found that estrogen impairs the ability of GH to stimulate hepatic IGF-I production because of its negative impact on the growth hormone receptor and signaling. Thus, injecting CJC 1295 or any GHRH by itself will be inhibited in its action on GH release by the sex hormone estrogen in women.

    Now does this mean women won't benefit from peptides? Quite the opposite, GHRP's induce a greater GH release response in the somatotrophs in the presence of estrogen than GHRH. Never has it been show that peptides induce acromelagy as has been show in some cases with very high amounts of synthetic hGH. Many of the more masculinizing effects you see in some cases are due to heavy androgen usage combined with hGH.

    Hope that clears up things a bit. By the way, very interesting discussion going on. It's about time our women come out and discuss this. Lots can be learned from these discussions as there is very little research on real life situations.

  7. #232
    UltraFit360.com axioma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistersteel View Post
    Reason being that test aromatizes in women just like it does in men. In pre-menopausal women with functional ovaries and with the body constantly trying to get back into a homeostatic state, you can only imagine what the increase in estrogen is like in a women on test who is not conscious of the fact that test actually does aromatize, contrary to what most of us have been conditioned to believe. Sort of along the same lines as the myth that women do not need to run PCT. If you think about it, logically, and without having to get into the medical aspect of things, if you are supplementing the body with a compound it produces naturally on its own, then the body will cease production of that particular hormone because it sees no need to produce it. That applies to women just as it applies to men. But most people tell women not to worry about PCT because test production in a women is of little to no importance if you are ignorant of the endless benefits that test has on the female endocrine system. Most experienced male users will tell you that they would never inhibit estrogen production from the body because the presence of estrogen actually has a positive impact on physique manipulation, to a certain extent. Controlling excess estrogen that is produces through aromatization is important, however inhibiting estrogen production completely is not advisable. Similarly, women need their natural test just as much as men need their natural estrogen. If you take a look at hormone replacement therapy in women, the future is treating menopause with test rather than an abundance of estrogen and progesterone.

    I have worked with many women and through the years have been able to draw some very interesting conclusions in regards to how the female endocrine system reacts to anabolic steroids. The reason I recommend an AI is because an anti E is hardly enough to control the effects that this abundance of estrogen is producing in the body. Now granted many women have been able to get into contest shape running test, and will drop the compound however many week out depending on the length of the ester to drop excess water weight etc, but most women do not know how much harder they have made it on themselves to actually get in shape.

    I personally love test. It was always on the top of my list of favorites. My skin is beautiful on test, my hair is thick, curly and healthy, my nails are beautiful, I am very even tempered, always in a good mood, sex drive is great..yada yada yada.....BUT...test has dramatically changed the way my body looks and how I carry my fat. In time, excess test will add inches to your waistline and if you choose to run test in your offseason, you will need to be extremely diet conscious as holding on to fat is far easier, especially if you are not running an AI or SERM, which most competitors do not do in the offseason and save for prep.

    However, offseasons are generally the phase to put on size, and a little fat gain is not a bad thing. As you know, its almost impossible to put on muscle without fat. Just be cognizant of the fat to muscle ratio, and if you must run test in the offseason, a SERM is certainly sufficient.

    I have studied this in depth and have even gone as far as discussing test usage with doctors who monitor transgender hormonal therapy. Believe it or not, its takes only 80mg of test/week introduced into the female system to change her genetic makeup and hormonal composition to that of the average male. I know women who have used twice that amount thinking they were not causing any internal damage as long as they had the external sides in check. That is the price women pay for ignorance and lack of personal experience.

    As much as I love test, I did not realize the dramatic changes in my physique until It was a little too late. With as wide as my back is, my physique does not flow as much as it used to anymore because my waist has gotten wider. I also do not hold my fat the way I used to anymore and have a hard time getting my abs in even though my legs are shredded year round. My abs used to be the first thing to pop up.

    I generally would not advise women to run any drugs that aromatize, period. I personally do not run test anymore and quite honestly, the only thing that I miss is the self confidence. It never did anything for my strength and only made it hard to get in shape.


    I can go on and on forever. Sorry for the lengthy response. I was trying to be thorough. I hope this has helped.

    Respect,

    SS
    Just read this...excellent post.

  8. #233
    GYM RAT
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    Anobolics Review makes a cd and book that breaks down all this and explains it to you in a very easy way....check it out.

  9. #234
    MUSCLEHEAD Bencher's Avatar
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    So the conclusion here is that women and test is an individualized matter. My wife has done var cycles(20mg daily) she has done winny cycles(tabs 20mg daily) and did a prop cycle some 7 years ago. I think the prop was her most successful cycle. Gained a good amount of muscle, strength was phenomenal. But, she was not on a strict diet. Was like a bulk cycle that we should have kept a little cleaner. So now she has steered clear of prop. Im not a big fan of her taking orals daily, I would prefer one to twice a week injects. Save some liver stress and would be easier to stay consistant. Not miss a day here and there. So general opinion.
    Right now I have some EQ, some masteron and some test e. Can get prop in matter of days. Not a fan of test e for women with the long half life. The masteron is the one that makes me curious. It is on the lines of a tren, but not as harsh I believe. EQ have seen mixed reviews on here, but it too has a decent half life correct?
    39 years old, 5'9" tall 150lbs bout 19%bf. Has a larger build structure wise. Had to go to full D cup last summer to give her a more balanced look. So, she needs to fill out her back and shoulder area. Have some T3 coming this week, she does not like clen. Is presently on 20mg winn dialy, not looking to add to this, looking to replace the winn.

  10. #235
    NOVICE RVRose's Avatar
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    Im pretty new to bodybuilding, looking to compete in my first show this summer. Im natural, but was wondering about test boosters. I won some sups and one is T-Up Black. I dont know anything about this stuff or if women use it and what the effects are. Any info would be much appreciated

  11. #236
    IFBB Pro & Senior Forum Administrator tammyp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bencher View Post
    So the conclusion here is that women and test is an individualized matter. My wife has done var cycles(20mg daily) she has done winny cycles(tabs 20mg daily) and did a prop cycle some 7 years ago. I think the prop was her most successful cycle. Gained a good amount of muscle, strength was phenomenal. But, she was not on a strict diet. Was like a bulk cycle that we should have kept a little cleaner. So now she has steered clear of prop. Im not a big fan of her taking orals daily, I would prefer one to twice a week injects. Save some liver stress and would be easier to stay consistant. Not miss a day here and there. So general opinion.
    Right now I have some EQ, some masteron and some test e. Can get prop in matter of days. Not a fan of test e for women with the long half life. The masteron is the one that makes me curious. It is on the lines of a tren, but not as harsh I believe. EQ have seen mixed reviews on here, but it too has a decent half life correct?
    39 years old, 5'9" tall 150lbs bout 19%bf. Has a larger build structure wise. Had to go to full D cup last summer to give her a more balanced look. So, she needs to fill out her back and shoulder area. Have some T3 coming this week, she does not like clen. Is presently on 20mg winn dialy, not looking to add to this, looking to replace the winn.
    im confused. t3 and wanting to build? ditch the winny. masteron is a better choice here. 50 mg weekly. she doesnt need alot to see results. and eat to grow.
    APS HI TECH PHARMACEUTICALS ATHLETE
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  12. #237
    Super Moderator sassy69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RVRose View Post
    Im pretty new to bodybuilding, looking to compete in my first show this summer. Im natural, but was wondering about test boosters. I won some sups and one is T-Up Black. I dont know anything about this stuff or if women use it and what the effects are. Any info would be much appreciated
    I'm not familiar w/ T-Up Black. I checked the label - of course the primary ingredients are some secret mix of stuff. That always makes me wonder because there are well-known t-boosting products out there, as simple as tribulus terrestis or DHEA.

    Also given there's so much online about this stuff, I googled "T-Up Black" and "women". Here's some of what I found:

    http://www.weightlosssupplement.org/nutrex-t-up-black/ - review says there's nothing in it that actually builds muscle or promotes weightloss. Maybe give you a woody.

    http://www.bestslimmingpills.org/nutrex-t-up-black/ - same site / info as the previous one.

    Can't find anything else besides the marketing copy on all the sites selling it.

    One interesting thing is that most of the "test boosters" out there have a warning that says not for children under 18 (read: males who have not completely developed yet) or women (read: as they don't want to be responsible for anything resulting from a shift in hormone profile). Here is their Warning: Warnings: Absolutley do not use if you are under 18 years of age, pregnant or nursing. Consult your physician before use if you have a medical condition or are taking any presription drugs. Nevre exceed the recommended maximum dosage. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN

    Based on this I'd probably guess its ok to use that stuff since its not saying "not for women", and see what it actually does.

    For OTC stuff that sounds like it actually works check out this thread on Epistane.
    http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthrea...light=epistane
    Last edited by sassy69; 05-06-2011 at 08:59 PM.
    "The only way you can hurt the body is not use it. Inactivity is the killer and, remember, it's never too late."
    ~Jack Lalanne



  13. #238
    OLYMPIAN s2h's Avatar
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    epi..works well to harden ya up near the end for the ladies...

  14. #239
    IFBB Pro capps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatyana View Post
    Most male trainers, BFs and husbands sorting out your cycles.

    I disagree with that statement Tat, I think avoid people that have no real experience with dieting and training and supps for women, not just male trainers or husbands, bffs. Honestly it is good to see some women on here with some real knowledge. But in general, I have been around the sport for many years and find most women in the sport are clueless when it comes to supps advice. There are far too many women that workout for like a year or less and lose 20 or 30lbs and suddenly think they are a bber or fitness guru and even get on stage to compete once and then they are handing out advice with no real education. Avoid trainers that do not have your best interests in mind period! Sides from gear usage are largely irreversable. You cannot change that deep voice back, or stop growing that beard ect.. You need to as a female decide on what you are willing to risk and whether it is worth it. Are you gonna make a living of the industry or do you just want to win a show or your Pro Card? Too many women ruin their bodies and then a few years later stop competing.

  15. #240
    GYM RAT BikiniAshley_62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitbody View Post
    I HAVE TO AGREE about STERIOD USE IN WOMEN IS A VERY SERIOUS SUBJECT
    and my heart fuckin' bleeds when i see stuff about chicks using alot of test and androgenic drugs saying they haven't experienced bad effects
    i'm like YOU WILL just KEEP GOING !!!!!
    and then what ?
    you're standing infront of a mirror looking at yourself crying & or you see pics of yourself not recognizing who you are...
    "WHAT HAVE I DONE ????????!!!!!!!"
    its happens sutley...
    it's not just like "BAM YOU'RE A MAN !"
    it's a hair here a hair there, more and more
    but we go into denial
    and it pains me when i hear "THEY'RE SUCH A NICE PERSON"
    i'm like "FUCK LOOK WHAT THEY'VE DONE TO THEMSELVES, I REMEMBER THEM A FEW YRS AGO THEY STILL LOOKED LIKE A WOMAN & PRETTY"
    but people within the sport wanna protect their feelings i guess
    but they are really in denial
    i can feel them lining the firing squad up for me now...
    Wow!!! Such a poignant post!!!!

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