Women and Testosterone

[NubianBeauty]

I read you have more probs holding fat and gaining fat after menopause because of lack of estrogen. your body holds the fat as a way to get estrogen from fat cells

Very true! This is also when women can go from a female to male bf distribution.

[Tatyana]

I don't think menopause is something to fear.

Just look at how many gorgeous girlies there are now that look great into their 60s.

It is also going to be different for women with a different muscle to bodyfat ratio.

Most women just start losing muscle mass at 30 and don't do anything to stave off it's loss.

This is also one major factor in the 'middle aged' spread (as well as the hormones).

[GirlyMuscle]

Tat..you're the scientist. Maybe you could start a new thread about menopause somewhere. At 44 yrs old I'd be very interested to hear how it will affect me and what I can do to stave off the undesireable parts. Sure I could ask my doctor but docs aren't up on the bbing scene. Maybe you could help us "old" chicks out. I promise to participate in that thread as I am experiencing pre-menopause shit now.

[NubianBeauty]

I don't think menopause is something to fear. It is also going to be different for women with a different muscle to bodyfat ratio.

Also very true. We won't have the issues (sides) most women do. And I'm going to put this out there... if you're an AAS user the 'change' will be even milder.

[Tatyana]

Tat..you're the scientist. Maybe you could start a new thread about menopause somewhere. At 44 yrs old I'd be very interested to hear how it will affect me and what I can do to stave off the undesireable parts. Sure I could ask my doctor but docs aren't up on the bbing scene. Maybe you could help us "old" chicks out. I promise to participate in that thread as I am experiencing pre-menopause shit now.

I have started to do some research on HRT, right now they are just notes from scientific papers.

I will have to finish the notes off and simplify the science speak.

[partsRheavy]

Very interesting comment about the 'change' being milder in an AAS user.

Brings up a question that I would like to ask.

Let's say a woman is in her mid-40s and has been lifting for several years. Has not been using hormonal birth control for several years, and is not using female HRT of any sort. At the moment, she's still having periods on a reasonably regular basis, with no major menopause symptoms yet except slightly erratic periods.

I'll write 4 different possible scenarios, although I'm most interested in the comparison between nos. 2 and 3.

What would the difference in her experience of menopause be under the four different scenarios below?

1) She's already been running 1 relatively mild cycle each year since age 30.

2) She starts a first (mild) cycle while in pre-menopause but before major menopause symptoms start.

3) She waits to start a first cycle until a year after her last period, i.e. after she's had the 'change.'

4) She never uses AAS.

I'm curious about preservation of strength as well as difference in menopause symptoms between the scenarios.

Assume that diet is pretty much the same for each case, and is properly proportionate to weight and muscle mass. Of course, the woman would have a few more years workout experience in case 3 where she waits a few more years before using any AAS.

Thanks for your insight!

.. And I'm going to put this out there... if you're an AAS user the 'change' will be even milder.

[Sistersteel]

can you elaborate?

Aromasin is a Type-I aromatase inhibitor also known as a suicidal aromatase inhibitor because it lowers estrogen production in the body by attaching to the aromatase enzyme and permanently deactivating it.

[Tatyana]

Aromasin is a Type-I aromatase inhibitor also known as a suicidal aromatase inhibitor because it lowers estrogen production in the body by attaching to the aromatase enzyme and permanently deactivating it.

I would think that eventually you would make more enzyme, as they do wear out and are replaced, but I just checked the manufacturer's site, and it isn't recommended for women who haven't undergone menopause.


Aromasin = Exemestane

Exemestane is an irreversible, steroidal aromatase inactivator, structurally related to the natural substrate androstenedione.

It acts as a false substrate for the aromatase enzyme, and is processed to an intermediate that binds irreversibly to the active site of the enzyme causing its inactivation, an effect also known as "suicide inhibition."

Exemestane significantly lowers circulating estrogen concentrations in postmenopausal women, but has no detectable effect on adrenal biosynthesis of corticosteroids or aldosterone.

Exemestane has no effect on other enzymes involved in the steroidogenic pathway up to a concentration at least 600 times higher than that inhibiting the aromatase enzyme.

Important Safety Information

AROMASIN should not be used in women who are premenopausal, are nursing or pregnant, have a known hypersensitivity to the drug, or are taking estrogen-containing agents.

Dose modification is recommended for patients who are receiving certain medications, including strong CYP 3A4 inducers such as rifampicin and phenytoin.

.

Reductions in bone mineral density over time are seen with use of AROMASIN.

In IES, incidence of adverse events (AEs; %) occurring in = 10% of patients in any treatment group (AROMASIN vs tamoxifen) were hot flashes (21.2 vs 19.9), fatigue (16.1 vs 14.7), arthralgia = joint pain (14.6 vs 8.6), headache (13.1 vs 10.8), insomnia (12.4 vs 8.9), and increased sweating (11.8 vs 10.4). Discontinuation rates due to AEs were similar between AROMASIN and tamoxifen (6.3% vs 5.1%).

[Sistersteel]

it isn't recommended for women who haven't undergone menopause.

They say that about all AIs

[Tatyana]

They say that about all AIs

I think they give tamoxifan to younger women with breast cancer if it is oestrogen sensitive.

[Sistersteel]

I think they give tamoxifan to younger women with breast cancer if it is oestrogen sensitive.

Tamoxifen is an Anti E, not an AI tat. Its a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) that I made mention of earlier in our discussion, and not an aromataze inhibitor (AI).

[Tatyana]

Tamoxifen is an Anti E, not an AI tat. Its a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) that I made mention of earlier in our discussion, and not an aromataze inhibitor (AI).

That makes it much clearer. Either the drug is going to sit in the receptor blocking out oestrogen (tamoxifan), or it will just stop oestrogen from being formed as it kills the enzyme (aromasin).

[sassy69]

Most of the breast cancer documentation I found while looking for information about duration of use of nolva indicated that for premenopausal women, they will prescribe Nolvadex for 2 yrs, but the research indicates after 2 yrs, Arimidex produces better results so they recommend a switch over to that. They didn't state explicitly why, but I'd assume that after 2 yrs of continued nolvadex use, early menopause has been induced, and adrenal androgen aromotization because the primary source of estrogen production .. thus use of Arimidex becomes useful while nolvadex acting on ovarian estrogen is no longer a contributor.

[tammyp]

so basically it brings on menopause? this could also hold true with using reg gear. since it lowers estrogen , correct? i never get a period anymore.

[sassy69]

so basically it brings on menopause? this could also hold true with using reg gear. since it lowers estrogen , correct? i never get a period anymore.

I think that's different... another good question tho...

Nolva specifically acts to fake out the estrogen receptors to interrupt the estrogen process. In looking for an answer to the question "how long can you stay on nolvadex before inducing permanent menopause?" the only real documentation I've found is the breast cancer research that indicates after 2 yrs on the nolva protocol, they assume you're now in menopause and its time to consider the aromatized adrenal-drive estrogen to be your primary source, thus using the AIs instead of the SERMs.

But I've never found anything that indicates AAS specifically inhibits estrogen. Rather it seems to basically result in amenorrhea . But then that raises the question of what is the difference between amenorrhea & early menopause. I found one ref that called "early menoapuse" = ovarian failure.

I think what people find when they experience a loss of menstrual flow during a cycle, is that many of the other sides are still there (e.g. cramps, mood swings, etc), i.e. you're still ovulating but the flow stops. I don't know much about the mechanism, but the loss of the flow can come from a lot of different things. I personally recall pretty vividly, my first year away from home at college. No period for the first semester, went home for Xmas.. got it,,, then back for spring semester & disappeared again until summer break. I don't recall if I'd experienced the bloating and stuff, but I know I was moody - in fact I was a nervous wreck for most of that first year.

But continued state of no-period .. have you always had an irregular period or any pre-existing conditions?