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  1. #1
    RX MEMBER Matt Meinrod's Avatar
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    Default Holding most people back on BACK growth

    I think the main reason most people have such shitty back development can be found in every gym on a daily basis. People are using way too much weight on nearly every back exercise.

    Lat Pull Downs - where are the pull ups people? Ditch the pull downs for pull ups OR if you insist on doing pulldowns stop rocking back and forth using momentum. I see guys using the stack (or close to it) that weigh 195lb soaking wet. Makes no sense.

    Barbell Rows - The rare occasion you even see guys do them in the gym, you end up watching some sort of hamstring, RDL, row combination. How many more muscles can you incorporate in the lift for Christ sake!? Drop the weight in HALF and actually feel a contraction before you try to lift 3 or 4 plates a side.

  2. #2
    STRONGMAN Bryan Hildebrand's Avatar
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    its not jusst back, but thsi mens health no lockout and no touching the chest training by guys weighing in at a buck'sixty five handling poundages their buddies have to pull off their chest... and the call them negatives. add in the 1/4 squat drones and the 5x a week bicep guys and you have one giant douchebag factory!

    as an example, at my gym last night... I stopped my training for a moment and counted who was training what on a thursday:

    34 guys:

    2 shoulders (including me)

    8 chest

    3 legs

    3 back

    18 arms (13 biceps)

    it will only worsen tonight as the college crowd will be in training arms and "getting their swole on" so they can go out to the clubs with their massive 15" guns!

  3. #3
    ALL-AMERICAN BADASS retwa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Hildebrand View Post
    add in the 1/4 squat drones and the 5x a week bicep guys and you have one giant douchebag factory!
    LOL. This is why you avoid gyms that attract a large crowd of high school or college students.

  4. #4
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    It's not only back. Arms, quads, chest, hams, shoulders - 3/4 trainees does wrong way, too much weight, too little tension on the specific muscle, too little time under tension. The weight is imprtant, more weight = more muscle, BUT if the weight moves in proper form. I think you have so spend good 4-5 years in the gym, to get that perfect form where you can feel the working muscle

  5. #5
    GYM RAT LSMUSCL81a's Avatar
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    funny as hell, i had back yesterday and a young enthusiastic fella was too...he immediately threw himself around with a plate dangling from his waist...think they were pull ups..then went onto do some odd hybrid stiff legged lower lumbar arching 1/4 rep range movement..think they were supposed to be dl...i was doing rack pulls...after my last set of 495 for 15...he walks over and says "ill be there soon bro"....i just said sure will and finished my workout

  6. #6
    STRONGMAN Bryan Hildebrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retwa View Post
    LOL. This is why you avoid gyms that attract a large crowd of high school or college students.
    I live in small university town. my other choices are planet fitness, bodyworks ($90 a month to let children run around the entire gym/laser tag/kids only spider climber/etc...) or curves. oh, zachs club owned by zach taylor from the dolphins has a club... but I bent a bar and broke a machine. they asked me not to come back. i'm not white collar enough for them.

  7. #7
    RX MEMBER qbanfreak90's Avatar
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    Indian guy in my gym he does arms everyday.

  8. #8
    ALL-AMERICAN BADASS retwa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Hildebrand View Post
    I live in small university town.
    As do I. It is a nice ego boost to visit the campus gyms and be looked upon as a god by all the weak, skinny asians. lol. But then again, anyone who is able to bench or deadlift 2 plates a side will receive similar treatment.

    Campus gyms are also chock full of young hot chicks, but of course that's a bad workout environment. Do your real workouts at the real gym, then show up for some cardio on campus to get the cell #s...

  9. #9
    RX MEMBER joshbarnett's Avatar
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    deadlifts!!

  10. #10
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    to be honest i think what holds a lot of bbers back is not training heavy enough. i see the same guys day in and day out doing the same weight in strict form and not getting anywhere. i'm a fan of letting go of form for some heavy ass weights.

  11. #11
    RX MEMBER BigGreen1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retwa View Post
    As do I. It is a nice ego boost to visit the campus gyms and be looked upon as a god by all the weak, skinny asians. lol. But then again, anyone who is able to bench or deadlift 2 plates a side will receive similar treatment.

    Campus gyms are also chock full of young hot chicks, but of course that's a bad workout environment. Do your real workouts at the real gym, then show up for some cardio on campus to get the cell #s...

    i go to my uni gym too haha, its all i can afford and the area is shit for gyms!

    the equipment is good though and even though its full of arseholes mentioned above it is very rare that they are going to be on MY power rack so i cant really complain. You do get the odd cunt deciding to use it for curls though...

    chest day i normally do first thing on a morning to avoid the benches been taken by groups of 5 skinny lads all in vests duing the odd set of chest press and talking for 20 min.

    also i am seen as a freak haha i love it

  12. #12
    RX MEMBER GarlicChicken's Avatar
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    I honestly think what holds most people back is food, not exercise. They eat like a fucking bird and expect to bet big. Ain't gonna happen dude. I'm that 165lb chicken shit and I cut on 3000/+ cals a day...of course I look better than most people at the gym though lol. I have to eat a minimum of 4000cals to grow at all.

    As far as back stuff, most guys just don't do it. I do really heavy rows and rack deads, and my back is good. I think its more of a mind-muscle connection deal.

  13. #13
    RX MEMBER BigGreen1's Avatar
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    oh and as for the back growth, i try to periodise it

    some days though i just love to go heavy on back its seriously my highlight of the whole week... i admit my form sometimes isnt perfect (its certanly not terreble though) but my back seems to grow from it

    i suppose u just gotta find what is best for you and what your body reacts to best...

  14. #14
    RX MEMBER Matt Meinrod's Avatar
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    My back sucks (as you can see from my avatar) and it only started to grow once I realized how to lift with my back and not my biceps and legs.

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    It's lack of intensity in my opinion. Hardly anyone I ever see trains any back exercise to failure or goes very far out of their comfort zone. Guaranteed if they had to they could crank out at least 5 more reps on every set.

    Quote Originally Posted by retwa View Post
    As do I. It is a nice ego boost to visit the campus gyms and be looked upon as a god by all the weak, skinny asians. lol. But then again, anyone who is able to bench or deadlift 2 plates a side will receive similar treatment.

    Campus gyms are also chock full of young hot chicks, but of course that's a bad workout environment. Do your real workouts at the real gym, then show up for some cardio on campus to get the cell #s...
    Lmao so fucking true, and they're so excited and grateful if you say anything to them.

  16. #16
    PHOTO NINJA Matt Knappick's Avatar
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    Pull ups + bent over rows + deadlifts = back. Take that equation to University and see if the fuckers can figure that out

  17. #17
    IFBB Pro Laurie Schnelle's Avatar
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    Gotta tell guys all the time "check your ego at the door" Trying to throw around heavy a$$ weight with crappy form and wonder why they are not growing or progressing

  18. #18
    RX Muscle Team Canada Taylor Normandeau's Avatar
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    Not many people really engage their lats when training, I don't think just lowering the weight would fix it instantly, but it is a necassary step for sure. Not many people feel the weight on back exercises, or let the muscles stretch on the negative

  19. #19
    RX Muscle Team Canada Taylor Normandeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster View Post
    My back sucks (as you can see from my avatar) and it only started to grow once I realized how to lift with my back and not my biceps and legs.
    Yessss, once I figured out the concept of using your hands as hooks and pulling the weight with lats, I finally grew some. Agreed.

  20. #20
    IFBB Pro Laurie Schnelle's Avatar
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    Chode Logan!!!! MD Chode??

  21. #21
    RX MEMBER BigGreen1's Avatar
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    maybe it would be better if they learned the science behind it...
    i mean, people think for instance a dumbell row if for the back... pull the dumbell up and have a bigger back.
    even though they normally are using way too much forearm and bicep.

    but if they learn that they need to use hands as hooks etc, the things that come second nature to bodybuilders because its the basics and it just happens when we lift

    i dont think the weight would need to be dropped though

  22. #22
    IFBB Pro Laurie Schnelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chode Logan View Post
    Yessss, once I figured out the concept of using your hands as hooks and pulling the weight with lats, I finally grew some. Agreed.

    this!!!
    the "isolator" is really awesome for some exercises.. takes bi's out of back!!

  23. #23
    RX Muscle Team Canada Taylor Normandeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F.D. View Post
    Chode Logan!!!! MD Chode??

    The one and only! I was RX Chode first haha, I just took a vacation. What's up! Good to see you over here, it's slower then MD but less retards, so it's good to have a balance haha.
    Last edited by Taylor Normandeau; 04-20-2012 at 07:21 PM.

  24. #24
    FREAK BC123Jm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster View Post
    My back sucks (as you can see from my avatar) and it only started to grow once I realized how to lift with my back and not my biceps and legs.
    i wouldnt say your back sucks. traps and rear delts over power it and you need more lower back, but wouldnt say it sucks. what holds most people back is genetics. not everyone is meant to be a bodybuilder or do they want to be just because they work out.

  25. #25
    RX Muscle Team Canada Taylor Normandeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC123Jm View Post
    i wouldnt say your back sucks. traps and rear delts over power it and you need more lower back, but wouldnt say it sucks. what holds most people back is genetics. not everyone is meant to be a bodybuilder or do they want to be just because they work out.
    His back looks great, if it didn't, he wouldn't have put it as his Avy. He just wanted someone to say nice things to him

  26. #26
    FREAK BC123Jm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chode Logan View Post
    His back looks great, if it didn't, he wouldn't have put it as his Avy. He just wanted someone to say nice things to him
    ah. he tricked me... kinda like when a hot chick says "i'm fat"

  27. #27
    FREAK juiceinator3000's Avatar
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    I think it's because most people are just pussies
    Yes I did inject my sack to win free shit.
    Unban Ritch 2012 Follow my shit if you think I'm cool
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  28. #28
    ALL-AMERICAN BADASS retwa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juiceinator3000 View Post
    I think it's because most people are just pussies
    Yep. Legs and back are the two toughest muscle groups to train hard, so it's no wonder that these are underdeveloped in most people.

  29. #29
    FREAK BC123Jm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juiceinator3000 View Post
    I think it's because most people are just pussies
    i only half agree. i see tons of dudes killing it in my gym. they train 10 times harder than me. yet they look like crap. just weird physiques. you know like big traps but no other back development.
    or the guys with big shoulders and no arms or chest. yes everyone has weak points, but take you for example, you still have a very good over all shape and development to each body part.
    even when you were natty, you still had good structure. thats genetics

  30. #30
    Chem Administrator joe d's Avatar
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    training real heavy all the time sucks just as bad as training lighter with strict form all the time. knowing how to train, eat, and rest is where growth is. to each his own. if your not growing your doing it wrong.

  31. #31
    FREAK juiceinator3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC123Jm View Post
    i only half agree. i see tons of dudes killing it in my gym. they train 10 times harder than me. yet they look like crap. just weird physiques. you know like big traps but no other back development.
    or the guys with big shoulders and no arms or chest. yes everyone has weak points, but take you for example, you still have a very good over all shape and development to each body part.
    even when you were natty, you still had good structure. thats genetics
    Shhh. Don't tell people I was actually natural for awhile there lol. Idk I just see a lot of people in the gyms I've been to and worked at that just train like pussies. Then you go somewhere where people are actually doing work and it changes your whole perception of how much mental intensity should go into training. I will say a big part of it is I didn't even start really trying to move heavier weights until my form was pretty solid on all my movements. That took me a few years to really develop, the proper form and the way shit should feel. And yes, after that I hit the gas. Hard. I think putting the time in in the beginning to actually focus on proper training is where people either make or break their physique. Just my opinion. They're still fucking pussies though. They need some fuckin tren in their lives that's the problem.
    Yes I did inject my sack to win free shit.
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    FREAK juiceinator3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe d View Post
    training real heavy all the time sucks just as bad as training lighter with strict form all the time. knowing how to train, eat, and rest is where growth is. to each his own. if your not growing your doing it wrong.
    Word
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  33. #33
    FREAK BC123Jm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juiceinator3000 View Post
    They need some fuckin tren in their lives that's the problem.

    agreed

  34. #34
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    My back used to suck real bad and now its one of my best features

    I only started building a good back when I started from scratch and dropped the weight focused on form and "feeling" the weight

    Also made sure I stayed away from cable exercises and focuses mostly on reads partial reads rack chins pull ups and bent rows

  35. #35
    RX MEMBER floridairon's Avatar
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    I used to be king of cable rows and pulldowns and never understood why my bad was so thin. After my last show I started deadlifting and squating 2x week and my bag grew like never before. Now my back workout is 5xpull ups, 5x deads from the floor (not pussy rack pulls!) and 5x bar rows. Thats it and thats all you need and be consistent!!!

  36. #36
    ALL-AMERICAN BADASS retwa's Avatar
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    A narrow grip really seems to isolate my back more and take the biceps out of the movement...so I prefer doing bent over t-bar rows with a V handle over the bar...or pulldowns with that same attachment. Regular barbell rows are fine, but the heavy t-bar rows, followed up by heavy deads and then weighted chins really destroys my lats.

  37. #37
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    I want to hear the barely legal guru's opinion on this

  38. #38
    NOVICE eroc613's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster View Post
    My back sucks (as you can see from my avatar) and it only started to grow once I realized how to lift with my back and not my biceps and legs.
    Same here.

  39. #39
    RX MEMBER knockout ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eroc613 View Post
    Same here.
    i wouldnt say your back sucks. traps and rear delts over power it and you need more lower back, but wouldnt say it sucks.

  40. #40
    MUSCLEHEAD lartinos's Avatar
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    It's an ego thing.
    First off the big guys are afraid because they think people will expect them to be able to do more than they really can.
    Just like people have terrible form on their pull-downs because they are using way too much weight.
    I am far from jacked, but I like being able to do 20 pull-ups plus when I am in good shape. I don't understand how people can seriously work their back without doing them, fucking pitiful.
    Last edited by lartinos; 04-22-2012 at 11:53 PM.

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  41. #41
    FREAK MattyH7688's Avatar
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    I really like John Meadows' Mountaindog training for back. Most my back has grown in an offseason and get the best "pump and feeling" from the workouts.

  42. #42
    Natural Mr. Olympia John Hansen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mygunshowsoldout View Post
    Pull ups + bent over rows + deadlifts = back. Take that equation to University and see if the fuckers can figure that out
    This! Like my friend and former training partner Mel Chancey says, "you have to pick shit up from the floor!" Pulldowns, Hammer Strength, cables, etc, won't build a big thick back. When you start doing heavy (with good form) barbell rows, t-bar rows, deadlifts and wide-grip chins (not pulldowns), you will build wide, thick lats. And I think the best barbell rows are standing bent OVER a bar, not tilted up at an 80 degree angle which only works your forearms and biceps. Full movements using the basic exercises are the key.

  43. #43
    PHOTO NINJA Matt Knappick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural_O View Post
    This! Like my friend and former training partner Mel Chancey says, "you have to pick shit up from the floor!" Pulldowns, Hammer Strength, cables, etc, won't build a big thick back. When you start doing heavy (with good form) barbell rows, t-bar rows, deadlifts and wide-grip chins (not pulldowns), you will build wide, thick lats. And I think the best barbell rows are standing bent OVER a bar, not tilted up at an 80 degree angle which only works your forearms and biceps. Full movements using the basic exercises are the key.
    Exactly, bar go half way down shins not thighs!!

  44. #44
    RX MEMBER Rambo2's Avatar
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    It can't help that most people seem to have awful barbell row form

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by floridairon View Post
    I used to be king of cable rows and pulldowns and never understood why my bad was so thin. After my last show I started deadlifting and squating 2x week and my bag grew like never before. Now my back workout is 5xpull ups, 5x deads from the floor (not pussy rack pulls!) and 5x bar rows. Thats it and thats all you need and be consistent!!!
    Umm just throwing my own opinion out there, but unless your deadlifting to get an official max, deadlifting off the floor isnt that useful, when you deadlift off the rack, you dont have to waste that extra energy as opposed to pulling it off the floor and losing a couple of reps from something that has no real muscle building properties to it. But those are just my thoughts, im open to anybody else's opinion on deadlifting off the floor or rack, though my deadlifts are pretty high. typically back day begins with deads, bar 8 reps, 135 8 reps, 225 8 reps, 315 8 reps, 405 8 reps, 495 8 reps, 545 3 reps.

    But back to the main topic, 3 things:
    1) People are pussies when it comes to deadlifts and squats.
    2) Even if there are some people that do deadlifts and squats, they arent going heavy enough to get stronger and grow.
    3) If they happen to be going heavy enough, chances are theyre half assing the squat and not going deep enough and the form isn't there.

    At least this is the case in my gym, i think there are maybe 5 to 6 people who can actually deadlift or squat and push it as hard as they can, including me.

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