If it fits your macros trend

[symphonyofdreams]

Seems like this is the big trend i've been seeing everyone where people include some bad fats/carbs as long as it fits their macro goals. I must say though 99 percent of the people following it look like shit or get skinny to get lean. seems especially with naturals that guys hormones go to shit and they keep lowering calories to get lean and they end up skinny or skinny fat. whats your guys take ? I know alot of guys on here that look great like BC swear by clean foods not just keeping track of macros.

[Hydroshake]

you been hanging out in the misc too much brah.

i think it's good if you do it on a bulk. why go through unnecessary suffering?

unless you're a hard gainer ectomorph or just have a terrible appetite, i don't think it's the best idea to do that when cutting.

IIFYM is greatly exaggerated though. you're not supposed to eat pop tarts and doritos all day. you first reach your macros and if you have calories left over, a bit of ice cream won't ruin your diet or your health.

[juiceinator3000]

Stay away from bb.com that's all I have to say about that.

[MiamiMadePunk]

What's funny is that the same guys doing bench and curls 5x a week are on IIFYM.

[Costco77]

Calories are calories...to a certain extent.

Once bodybuilders/fitness enthusiasts figure this out it makes their life a whole lot more enjoyable. BB.com has a lot of smart posters in the nutrition section that has more registered dietitian's (RD) than this site and muscular development combined. (S/O to Alan Aragon!)

If you want to enjoy your life and still look great hit the gym hard - enjoy your workout, have an awesome meal once a day, eat your favorite foods, have a glass or two of beer, wine just reduce the kcals in your previous meals. Believe me it's possible people. That's all I'll say for now........

[Costco77]

Eat good food, it puts you in a good mood

[symphonyofdreams]

Eat good food, it puts you in a good mood

I guess it works for people that can eat shit food in moderation. the type of meals i like would put me above my total number of calories and macros on fats/ carbs in one sitting. I'd rather not have a tiny portion of the sutff i like and have to stop eating it. It's like going to a strip club and paying 100 bucks to have a 10 tease you and you go home with blue balls.

[Costco77]

Eat fewer bigger meals, doesn't need to be tiny portions.

I'm not talking about junk food like getting Twinkies for your main carb source, although it is possible to lose weight (http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...sor/index.html). I'm talking about having the freedom to eat food that tastes good.

Say your macros break down so that you're looking at 40 g protein/20 g fat/40 carbs for the first meal.

For breakfast you could have your favorite cereal with a glass of milk, protein shake, peanut butter on English muffin. All of which could easily fit those macros or...

Say you like an egg breakfast and you like bacon. You could have two whole eggs, 4 egg whites, 3 slices of bacon and toast with jelly. That would fit in those macros

Yesterday I had a BBQ pulled pork sandwhich with baked beans the macros broke down roughly..:
Sandwhich bun 30g carbs, BBQ sauce 16g carbs, baked beans 25g carbs/5g fat/6 protein, pulled pork 35g protein 15g fats.
Total: 71g carbs/20g fats/41g protein

*BBQ sauce didn't hold back Ronnie

[Dee]

Yeah but the majority of people don't have the genetics or metabolism of Ronnie Coleman...

Principle like this can be used, but it creates opportunities to fuck up a diet so I'd keep it to a minimum.....they sell all these '100 calorie' packs or snacks or candy bars so you can plan to use them in your diet.... Most ppl I know end up eating like 3 of them lol

[Taylor Normandeau]

Stay away from bb.com that's all I have to say about that.

Amen

[Conrad]

BB.com is not a place to get advice. calories are calories over there..lol

[knockout ted]

IIFYM is an approach that would benefit a lot of bodybuilders who suffer from orthorexia nervosa. I don't ever hear about enhanced bodybuilders preaching IIFYM, only natural bodybuilders who get just as lean or leaner then enhanced bodybuilders. It would be interesting to hear Dave or Chris's opinion about this topic.

[lksurf2]

Stay away from bb.com that's all I have to say about that.

repped

[juiceinator3000]

IIFYM is an approach that would benefit a lot of bodybuilders who suffer from orthorexia nervosa. I don't ever hear about enhanced bodybuilders preaching IIFYM, only natural bodybuilders who get just as lean or leaner then enhanced bodybuilders. It would be interesting to hear Dave or Chris's opinion about this topic.

Coming from a completely natural background and switching tto enhanced a year ago I completely disagree with this.

[knockout ted]

Coming from a completely natural background and switching tto enhanced a year ago I completely disagree with this.

ummmm disagree with what?

[juiceinator3000]

ummmm disagree with what?

I really don't believe it will benefit anyone. Including the people with your nonmedically recognized mental condition. And your statements about natural bodybuilders getting leaner than enhanced bodybuilders. That's what I disagree with. We can go pic for pic all day on that but there's no BBer ever to get as lean as Munzer as far as I know..

[knockout ted]

I really don't believe it will benefit anyone. Including the people with your nonmedically recognized mental condition. And your statements about natural bodybuilders getting leaner than enhanced bodybuilders. That's what I disagree with. We can go pic for pic all day on that but there's no BBer ever to get as lean as Munzer as far as I know..

It's benefitted me as a natural bodybuilder. I no longer stress about having to eat every 2-3 hours or feel guilty if I have certain foods. Many people misunderstand what iifym really means though. And by benefitting people with orthorexia nervosa what I was trying to say was if bodybuilders/fitness enthusiasts learned more about nutrition and don't just think they have to eat select "clean" foods to build muscle/lose fat it would save them from unecessary stress/"suffering". You misinterpreted my point about natural bodybuilders. I wasnt saying that natural bodybuilders get leaner then enhanced bodybuilders, only that the natural bodybuilders that I have seen preaching iifym get leaner then your average npc bodybuilder. My point was also that I find it weird that you never find enhanced bodybuilder preaching iifym.

[juiceinator3000]

It's benefitted me as a natural bodybuilder. I no longer stress about having to eat every 2-3 hours or feel guilty if I have certain foods. Many people misunderstand what iifym really means though. And by benefitting people with orthorexia nervosa what I was trying to say was if bodybuilders/fitness enthusiasts learned more about nutrition and don't just think they have to eat select "clean" foods to build muscle/lose fat it would save them from unecessary stress/"suffering". You misinterpreted my point about natural bodybuilders. I wasnt saying that natural bodybuilders get leaner then enhanced bodybuilders, only that the natural bodybuilders that I have seen preaching iifym get leaner then your average npc bodybuilder. My point was also that I find it weird that you never find enhanced bodybuilder preaching iifym.

Because you won't find a lot of us here who follow that trend. Most of the people here (most) are working with people or are following what others are doing to make leaner gains offseason by eating clean foods that fit our macros for the day. I've personally found that I made much better gains with a structured diet of clean foods than eating shit to hit my numbers for the day. Like I said I was natural until a year ago and have tried both ways, eating whatever shit I wanted to make my fats/carbs/protein match and doing it the way I have this offseason and the difference has been dramatic. And I strongly believe it would have been just as dramatic had I decided to stay natural.

[Costco77]

^^what do you consider a clean food?....or dirty?

[Costco77]

I would bet that your gaily diet is low in fruit and veggies. Because a lot of people on this board consider fruit a "dirty" food cause it has natural sugars. Go figure

[Widge]

eating clean all the time year round is a bit of a chore, no harm in some 'bad' food.

[JRob]

I'm not one to get into a huge debate on the internet but, I'll throw in my two sense even though I shouldn't

I totally don't believe in iifym crew or whatever has been put together. I have nothing against it or anything like that, just calories do matter. 500calorie meal of chicken,sweet potatoe and almond butter certainly is handled differently by the body than 500calorie meal of um...whey powder, pop tarts and ice cream (I don't know what they use).

If I'm reading this correctly, that's basically what it is? Take "whatever" food you want and make it fit your macros and that's all that matters? HA

[JRob]

eating clean all the time year round is a bit of a chore, no harm in some 'bad' food.

Right now I've been eating "completely clean" post show 1-2weeks with a two meal post workout refeed of foods that are off my diet. The refeed is still intact and structured, but it may include cereal, pancakes, bagels...

So I agree with this, just in moderation I know I can fly off the handle waaaay to easy and lose a grip real quick!

[Provo82]

I would bet that your gaily diet is low in fruit and veggies. Because a lot of people on this board consider fruit a "dirty" food cause it has natural sugars. Go figure

i think fruits a clean food for sure. im cool with if it fits macros as long as the food is clean but i think a more structured approach allows for a more strategic optomized approach with correct nutrient timing etc. i simply look better and feel more energized on clean foods. dirty foods make me look and feel like crap.

[Dre23]

JimmyRob and Provo hit the nail on the head.

Just b/c you can eat certain foods to stay within your macro structure, does not mean that it is optimal fuel for your body. I for one have learned to enjoy eating clean, and I personally wouldn't want to fuel my body with crap. Does "crap" have its place in a well-planned offsesason, sure. But IMO your body is going to run and process things a lot better when inflamation is minimized via clean eating with real foods.

[Costco77]

Whatever makes you happy and feel good.

-end of discussion-

[Costco77]

We all love improving our physiques and that is why we are on this board, we also love it because it makes us feel good. I became a chef through bodybuilding, I learned how to cook and prepare all my meals and I fell in love with cooking but I still had a huge passion for staying in shape so I'm just trying to enjoy both and I'm having a great time doing so. I've found a great balance in making delicious food but still getting great improvements in the gym and I'm just trying to show people that it can be done. One of the great things about building a great physique is that there seems to be multiple ways to get the job done, whether it's through different styles of training or eating and people will always debate the optimal way till the end of time.

[s2h]

The content and timing of your food matters....hitting a number for the vast majority of people will not get them to were they need or want to be....

[lilarnold]

look bottom line is if you wanna win a show then this shit is garbage.....you wanna look decent and have a good time at your summer bbq that do this

i personally want to be a champion.

[lilarnold]

Right now I've been eating "completely clean" post show 1-2weeks with a two meal post workout refeed of foods that are off my diet. The refeed is still intact and structured, but it may include cereal, pancakes, bagels...

So I agree with this, just in moderation I know I can fly off the handle waaaay to easy and lose a grip real quick!

bagels cereal and pancakes arent even really all that bad bro. i like the approach your taking for offseason nutrition......on this diet though people arent doing what you are

[lilarnold]

It's benefitted me as a natural bodybuilder. I no longer stress about having to eat every 2-3 hours or feel guilty if I have certain foods. Many people misunderstand what iifym really means though. And by benefitting people with orthorexia nervosa what I was trying to say was if bodybuilders/fitness enthusiasts learned more about nutrition and don't just think they have to eat select "clean" foods to build muscle/lose fat it would save them from unecessary stress/"suffering". You misinterpreted my point about natural bodybuilders. I wasnt saying that natural bodybuilders get leaner then enhanced bodybuilders, only that the natural bodybuilders that I have seen preaching iifym get leaner then your average npc bodybuilder. My point was also that I find it weird that you never find enhanced bodybuilder preaching iifym.

yeah, why sacrafice to be a winner......thats assinine

[Triple-H_2005]

I wish everyone followed the IIFYM school of thought...then I'd look even better by comparison.

And I LOVE talking to "competitors" that eat this way...

[Triple-H_2005]

yeah, why sacrafice to be a winner......thats assinine

Right?

It's like the person that competes "just for fun".

[Provo82]

Right?

It's like the person that competes "just for fun".

lol i know slightly off topic but competing is rarely fun unless you win imo. or are atleast in contention for a top placing with your first show as the rare exception.

[juiceinator3000]

lol i know slightly off topic but competing is rarely fun unless you win imo. or are atleast in contention for a top placing with your first show as the rare exception.

The only fun part about competing if you don't win is watching your body transform. But the misery that causes this change is far from fun.

[Gunslinger]

there is a lot of unfounded, faulty science shrouding bodybuilding. if we ignore studies done completely debunking the importance of glycemic index and meal timing; if we forget that the body can take 24 hours+ just to digest something yet alone utilize it ;if we even forget that there are concrete metabolic pathways for which things must be altered and then run through no matter the original form- it is still quite silly for someone to set their life up to where they can eat chicken, rice, and broccoli 8 times a day, every 2 hours.

it can be argued that every person's body is subject to actual science(of thermodynamics, of metabolism, of signaling and response to stimului); but you can at least argue that the average lifter who wants to look good and get strong can quite easily get by with adhering to simple macronutrient guidelines and that being in contest-prep mode 365 days a year is kind of silly and pointless.

[fishmeat]

you put garbage in... u get a garbage ass n gut..
real simple.. gotta love these soft, puffy assclowns that try to re invent the wheel

[BigGreen1]

you literally are what you eat. we are mostly made up of the food we have consumed in the past 18 months. so people following this should think about that (even though my diet has not been amazing recently)

you can 'cheat' but actually eat clean if you must. One thing i like to do is home made burgers - extra lean beef mince and make it up yourself, grill it (personally i love the george foreman) have on a whole grain bread cake some salad abit of sauce and there you have a decent, moderately clean 'cheat' meal and they taste great!

[Triple-H_2005]

if we forget that the body can take 24 hours+ just to digest something yet alone utilize it...

but you can at least argue that the average lifter who wants to look good and get strong can quite easily get by with adhering to simple macronutrient guidelines and that being in contest-prep mode 365 days a year is kind of silly and pointless.

My digestive system would beg to differ with you. If I eat green beans at lunch, it's going down the toilet usually before I've eaten my 8:00 meal. Same with anything that passes through my system that can be identified on sight (corn, peas, nuts, etc...).

As for the rest, who wants to be average? Why bother doing this at all if you're not going to push yourself to be as much as your genetic limitations allow? I don't know, maybe I'm an oddball. I was raised to either give something 100% or just leave it alone.

And just because many of us think the IIFYM is stupid and lazy, 365 days of precontest isn't the only other alternative. There is a such thing as reasonable offseason eating.

Unless someone is hampered with family limitations and/or work limitations (REAL limitations, not excuses), then do it right. If one seeks the path of least resistance, they'll be just what you indicated. Average.

I may never look the way I want to look, but I know in my heart that there's not a thing more that I could do (with respect to maintaining one's health, of course) to be any better at this point in time. I fail to understand the mindset of those that settle for less.


Sorry about the rant. I've had a week of people asking for "advice" then telling my why their favorite TV show is more important than making it to the gym, people insisting that Body By Vi is great nutrition and people in my gym half-assing it through their contest prep because they're competing "just for fun".

I'm at the bottom of my barrel of tolerance for lazy shortcut seekers, and that's (apart from the genetically gifted that can get in shape eating anything) exactly what the IIFYM camp represents.

[Triple-H_2005]

lol i know slightly off topic but competing is rarely fun unless you win imo. or are atleast in contention for a top placing with your first show as the rare exception.

Unless I win, which I've been fortunate enough to enjoy a few times, the only "fun" comes in the knowledge that I did more with what God gave me than 99.999% of people on this rock will ever do with their bodies, and that I reached another personal best.

There are a few morons in my gym that compete "just for fun", yet they're always the ones complaining about their placings. Coincidence? I think not...

[Gunslinger]

My digestive system would beg to differ with you. If I eat green beans at lunch, it's going down the toilet usually before I've eaten my 8:00 meal. Same with anything that passes through my system that can be identified on sight (corn, peas, nuts, etc...).

As for the rest, who wants to be average? Why bother doing this at all if you're not going to push yourself to be as much as your genetic limitations allow? I don't know, maybe I'm an oddball. I was raised to either give something 100% or just leave it alone.

And just because many of us think the IIFYM is stupid and lazy, 365 days of precontest isn't the only other alternative. There is a such thing as reasonable offseason eating.

Unless someone is hampered with family limitations and/or work limitations (REAL limitations, not excuses), then do it right. If one seeks the path of least resistance, they'll be just what you indicated. Average.

I may never look the way I want to look, but I know in my heart that there's not a thing more that I could do (with respect to maintaining one's health, of course) to be any better at this point in time. I fail to understand the mindset of those that settle for less.


Sorry about the rant. I've had a week of people asking for "advice" then telling my why their favorite TV show is more important than making it to the gym, people insisting that Body By Vi is great nutrition and people in my gym half-assing it through their contest prep because they're competing "just for fun".

I'm at the bottom of my barrel of tolerance for lazy shortcut seekers, and that's (apart from the genetically gifted that can get in shape eating anything) exactly what the IIFYM camp represents.

Digestion rates certainly differ for food/people. My point is that the thought that your body is going "catabolic" after a few hours of eating or after exercise is inaccurate. With as much as we eat, our body is constantly digesting/assimilating foods; unless you fast for a few days, it isn't a concern. My other point is that you are not ingesting something and instantly getting the effects. You are ingesting food now, digesting foods from hours ago, and assimilating nutrients from hours and hours ago. So that makes meal timing less important as well.

I do think that simple thermodynamics/nutrient requirements govern your physique as far as eating goes. But I still eat healthy and "clean" for health reasons regardless. I agree that both extremes are unneeded; but knowing that both approaches can yield results at least allows for a middle ground and for a little flexibility-- something that a lot of bodybuilders lack unnecessarily.

[fishmeat]

"middle ground" ?
this is an extreme fuckin sport, that dictates one push themselves.
knitting, golfing or gardening can be your" middlground"
there is no room for less.. Jesus h christ take that shit to bb.com

[juiceinator3000]

Why are we still talking about this?? Let him talk to himself we've stated how his points are not accepted as anything but bullshit from a bunch of tools at bb.com. It's more fun to not engage people who want to argue stupid fucking shit anyway.

[knockout ted]

Why are we still talking about this?? Let him talk to himself we've stated how his points are not accepted as anything but bullshit from a bunch of tools at bb.com. It's more fun to not engage people who want to argue stupid fucking shit anyway.

You keep surprising me with your intelligent posts. Keep it up, great contributions to this thread.

[lilarnold]

there is a lot of unfounded, faulty science shrouding bodybuilding. if we ignore studies done completely debunking the importance of glycemic index and meal timing; if we forget that the body can take 24 hours+ just to digest something yet alone utilize it ;if we even forget that there are concrete metabolic pathways for which things must be altered and then run through no matter the original form- it is still quite silly for someone to set their life up to where they can eat chicken, rice, and broccoli 8 times a day, every 2 hours.

it can be argued that every person's body is subject to actual science(of thermodynamics, of metabolism, of signaling and response to stimului); but you can at least argue that the average lifter who wants to look good and get strong can quite easily get by with adhering to simple macronutrient guidelines and that being in contest-prep mode 365 days a year is kind of silly and pointless.

cool, keep preaching and ill keep beating the people who listen to you