anavar, primo and winny

[s2h]

Primobolan
(methenolone acetate)

Primobolan is one of those anabolic steroids which has a cult following not unlike the old original version of Masteron. Actually, as you can easily see from it´s anabolic:androgenic ratio below in the profile, it´s a pretty weak steroid but actually stronger(!) than Masteron in both regards. I don´t know anyone who has run both compounds at the same dose. We are probably justified in speculating that you´d probably get similar results from either of them, when you consider the fact that you are getting quite a bit less actual drug and more ester when you choose injectable Primobolan (which has the very long Enanthate ester attached to it) over Masteron (which has the very short propionate ester attached to it). In truth, I think part of the reason many Primobolan users have been disappointed is that they failed to use enough of it, for long enough. From it´s chemical structure and anabolic:androgenic rating, we can assume it is at least as effective as Masteron, on an equal Mg for mg basis. However, due to its ester (in the injectable version), it needs to be run for at least 12 weeks to see the full benefits from it.

The following dose pertains to men only: When you consider a measly dose of 400mgs of this stuff for 12 weeks will probably cost you around $500.It´s easy to see why many people have tried to use less...and have been disappointed with their results. On the other hand, many competitive bodybuilders consider Primobolan indespensible to their pre-contest drud routine, and wouldn´t consider dieting without it. Anyway...I think the comparison to Masteron (another great precontest drug) is the best one we can make, with reference to expected gains and results.

I happen to be one of the few people who have used Drostanolone Enanthate (Masteron with the Enanthate ester attached) as well as Methenolone Enanthate (injectable Primobolan). I can tell you that the results from these two compounds, when ester and mg potency are the same, are in fact very similar.
Effects of Primobolan

Let´s flesh out some of the various general effects of Primobolan, before we get into the differences between the oral and injectable versions... One study performed on sheep involved administering 100mgs of Methenolone, and electronically stimulating their lats (electronic stimulation was used because they kept falling off the chin-up bars). Anyway, when compared with the lat muscles of sheep who didn´t receive Methenolone, the receiving group gained significantly more muscle mass as well as strength (1)(2). It´s also has a relatively high affinity for binding to the AR, actually binding better than testosterone (3). This ability to strongly bind to the AR may be why Primobolan is such a good "fat burner." Strong AR binding has been positively correlated with lypolysis (fat-burning) (8).

In addition, as this steroid can actually aid in reducing breast tumors, no ancillary products need be considered for use with Primobolan, and in fact, it may actually be a useful ancillary agent in it´s own right, similar to Masteron. Also, just like Masteron, Primobolan has no propensity to aromatize (convert to estrogen). Since it doesn´t aromatize, alot of the side effects commonly associated with estrogen will not be of concern. This means water retention, acne, and gyno will be non-existent more or less. this lack of water retention combined with the slow and steady gains provided by Primo may help to explain why it has earned a reputation for creating quality muscle gains. This also helps to explain why it is so expensive. Although estrogenic sides are not a concern, hair loss still, remains a very real concern with Primobolan, as with many DHT-Derived steroids. Many primobolan fans always include Finasteride and Ketoconazole (shampoo) in cycles containing Primobolan.

Although nobody would ever suggest to use Primobolan as a bulking agent, it´s been studied as an agent to halt wasting and possibly reverse many of the adverse effects of anemia. It is a shocking failure in both areas, according to some of the case studies I´ve read, (5)(6) and this should come to no surprise to anyone. Anadrol reigns supreme in this area, and nobody in the athletic community would ever compare those two drugs. However, Michael Mooney and many other respected doctors who work with AIDS patients have found sufficient evidence to claim that Primobolan is an immune enhancer and as such is very useful for AIDS patients (not that the FDA cares...Primobolan is still not approved for sale in the United States). AIDS patients aren´t really in need of Bulking Drugs, so an immune enhancer like Primo which will add small, quality gains in muscle is perfect for them. And since we aren´t even going to vaguely consider the use of Primobolan as a bulking agent, clearly this leaves us with considering it primarily for use in gaining and maintaining lean tissue. It´s a great choice for this purpose, and many competitors have used it very successfully to retain muscle while on a calorie reduced diet. The reason Primo is so useful for this purpose is that one of its primary functions is to help your body retain nitrogen (7) at a greatly enhanced rate. The greater your nitrogen retention is, the more muscle you will build. In the case of using primo as a pre-contest drug, this nitrogen retention will help you retain muscle and ensure that your dieting preferentially favors fat loss over muscle loss.

Primobolan is a very unique steroid, as it is one of the few that comes in both an oral as well as an injectable version. I suppose Winstrol does also, but Primobolan actually has a different ester on the oral (acetate ) and injectable (Enanthate) versions. The oral version is one of the more interesting oral compounds I´ve looked into. For starters, it´s one of the few compounds available to athletes and bodybuilders which is both oral as well as non-17-alpha-alkylation. This alteration is (as I´m sure you remember from other stuff I´ve written) what generally makes oral steroids survive their first pass through your liver, but also makes them Hepatoxic (Liver toxic). Well... oral Primo doesn´t have this feature, so it is very mild on your liver (actually it basically isn´t liver toxic at all), but also is largely destroyed by it, since 17 beta estrification and 1 alkylation is the method used to make this stuff orally available. You´ll need to take a lot of this stuff for it to be effective... 100mgs/day of the oral version is a safe estimate for reasonable gains& for women, you could get away with less; perhaps 25mgs/day. Even though the acetate ester has a 2-3 day active life, your liver will do some damage to oral primo, so every day dosing will still be necessary.

When men were given a 30-45mg dose of the oral version of Primo, they experienced a 15-65% decrease in gonadotropin levels (9). Remember, I said 100mgs is a good dose for gains... well, you´ll also reduce your gonadotropin levels considerably. I have personally never understood why people recommend either oral or injectable Primobolan as a possible bridging compound for this reason... maybe at a too-low-to-do-anything dose of 10mgs it could be used as a bridge. And forget about using injectable Primo to bridge&

Hey... speaking about injectable Primo...

I´ve used this stuff at 200mgs/week and wasn´t very impressed with it. Generally, I think injectable primo needs to be used at a dose of at least 350mgs/week (100mgs/Every other Day), and preferably at a dose of 400-600mgs/week. I happen to like running it with testosterone propionate, but for convenience I would imagine most people would run it with Testosterone Enanthate, to keep dosing times the same (shooting it twice per week, in most cases).
Buying Primobolan

The unfortunate truth about injectable Primo is that it´s a very expensive chemical to obtain, and that price is reflected in the cost to the average consumer. Ten dollars per 1ml/100mg ampule is not unheard of, and I´ve seen it go for more. This is, of course, absurd. As if that´s not enough, this is also the most commonly counterfeited steroids on the black market. I recommend buying Primobolan (either the oral or injectable) from a respected Underground lab instead of trying to play a game of "spot the fake steroid" in Mexico or Europe. The underground versions should cost between $5-7 for 100mgs of Methenolone and I wouldn´t really consider paying more for it, although I have seen the British Dragon version of this product priced up to $20/ml.
Primobolan Profile

(Methenolone)

(Oral Version is + Acetate Ester)
(Injectable Version is + Enanthate Ester)
[17beta-Hydroxy-1-methyl-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one]
Molecular weight of base: 302.4558
Molecular weight of Acetate ester: 60.0524
Molecular weight of Enanthate ester: 130.1864
Formula: C20H30O2
Melting Point:
Manufacturer: Schering
Effective dose(oral): (Men)50-100mgs/day; (Women) 10-25mgs/day
Effective dose (injectable): (Men) 350-600mgs/week; (

Tammy,did i read right that your pricing 400mg of primo at $500??

[s2h]

Tamy never mind after rereading your post i see it was based on 12 weeks,i thought it was for 1 week,see typical male didnt pay atttention,and didos on your improvements from the blue pic to the other some really nice gains,i find your physique very apealling and well balanced best of luck to you at your next show!!!

[Victoria]

I have a question about var. I started taking var 2 weeks ago and did about 8 days at 5mg (split into two) and now I'm at 10mg. Anyways, 5 days into my cycle, I developed a rash in my neck but is not very noticeable. At first I thought it was due to a halter top that I wore for Valentine's but it hasn't gone away and is over a week already. The only thing that I have changed in my diet is the var and I added acidophilus and vitamin B5. Besides that, I have not developed any other sides (well, got one pimple on my back that already went away lol!).

Is this something that is a by product of the var? The rash is at the bottom of my neck and on the sides only.

TIA!!

[sassy69]

Try stopping the cycle and see what happens.

What brand is it ? Is it UG? Sometimes you never know what's in the non-pharma stuff.

[Victoria]

Try stopping the cycle and see what happens.

What brand is it ? Is it UG? Sometimes you never know what's in the non-pharma stuff.

Well, it's supposed to be british dragon (I know the original guys are gone but it's supposed to be made by another good supplier). Other people gave great reviews on this var.

I guess is very hard to find the real pharma stuff so I'm at a loss on how to find it. I know I'm not supposed to ask sources so I'm not asking that haha!

Would you continue your cycle if you could barely notice it?

[sassy69]

Well, it's supposed to be british dragon (I know the original guys are gone but it's supposed to be made by another good supplier). Other people gave great reviews on this var.

I guess is very hard to find the real pharma stuff so I'm at a loss on how to find it. I know I'm not supposed to ask sources so I'm not asking that haha!

Would you continue your cycle if you could barely notice it?

Honestly I don't recall ever hearing of anyone experiencing allergic reactions, at least that they posted on the boards, but anything is possible.

So googling anavar & rash, it is called out as a rare side but can happen:

http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-5322...me=Anavar+Oral

--- see the Side Effects tab

If you feel aggressive, keep running it, maybe Benedryl can help w/ the allergic reaction. If it gets worse stop. You might try a different brand or different cycle.

[Victoria]

Thanks Sassy for googling that! That's scary man! The rash is not getting worse and is not bad but it is there! I will take some benadryl like you said and see what happens. I will monitor this very closely. I will give you guys an update later.

Thanks a bunch!

[Victoria]

Update: The rash is gone even though I didn't stop the var. It was so minimal that I barely noticed it so that's why I kept on going.

I have another stupid question.... my birthday is at the end of the month and we plan on doing a little bit of partying... how bad is it if I drink 2 or 3 drinks? I usually don't drink at all but I may do it on a special occasion like this. Is it zero tolerance to drink alcohol while you're taking any AAS? I only take 10mg a day. If it's a big no no, then is not a problem not drinking but I do like to get a buzz once or twice a year

[sassy69]

Update: The rash is gone even though I didn't stop the var. It was so minimal that I barely noticed it so that's why I kept on going.

I have another stupid question.... my birthday is at the end of the month and we plan on doing a little bit of partying... how bad is it if I drink 2 or 3 drinks? I usually don't drink at all but I may do it on a special occasion like this. Is it zero tolerance to drink alcohol while you're taking any AAS? I only take 10mg a day. If it's a big no no, then is not a problem not drinking but I do like to get a buzz once or twice a year

Glad no more rash issues. That's never fun, no matter what the source.

RE: one or twice drinking -- it won't kill ya. It will stall any goals you were going after a little so if you're on a schedule that's the biggest effect.

Drink more water!

[crossbellas]

What exactly would adding nolva do for a female bb, who is running 10mgs var, twice per day? She has been dieting for two weeks and has hardened up a bit, but has 8 wks of cardio and dieting to go. Also, how long is sensible to run the var... and should we wean her or pull it cold turkey?

[homegrown]

Primo taken at a dose of around 50 -75mg would you expierence a voice change?

[sassy69]

Primo taken at a dose of around 50 -75mg would you expierence a voice change?

Depends on the person , but expect it vs hope it doesn't happen.

[homegrown]

Would using Var at an upwards of 25 mg for about 5 weeks at the end of prep with no sides what so ever not even acne be any indication??

[Fit_Jess]

Hey thinking of taking either anavar, winnie or primo for a first time using AAS. I competed in my first bikinin and then figure competition and had my first experience with dieting. I had a good base to start with as far as a good amount of muscle to start competing in figure. I know that I cant get to where I want naturally and have decided to compete in NPC in 2011 instead of USBF. My last show was three weeks ago and Im still doing cardio 6 days a week and training 5 - 6 days a week as well. I do my cardio early in the am on an empty stomach and my training is as follows normally:
Mon - Shoulders
Tues - Back
Weds - Chest
Thurs - Legs or Arms
Friday - shoulders
Sat - legs or arms

Diet
Meal 1 - 1 /2 cup whites, 1 egg, 2 slices ezekial
Meal 2 - 1/ 2 cup oats , 1 scoop whey
Meal 3 - 4 oz lean protein, 1 cup veggies, 1/2 cup brown rice
Meal 4 - 4 oz lean protein, 1 cup veggies, 4 oz sweet potatoes
Meal 5 - 4 oz lean protein, 1 cup veggies, 1 slice ezekial
Meal 6 - 1/2 cup whites, 1 egg or 1/2 cup lowfat cottage cheese
Post workout - 1 scoop whey with 1 scoop waxi

Please help as I dont know Which AAS to start and whats the safe doseage to start out at..thank you!

[sassy69]

I'd suggest you spend ALOT of time reading this forum - there's a lot of first-timer questions answered on here.

My answer is going to be anavar for a first cycle. 5 mg, split in half doses taken 2x/ day (1 am, 1 pm) for the first 2 weeks, and then up to 10 mg. Run for 10-14 weeks. You can run it long at low doses. I dunno what product you'd be using - some of the non-label stuff can be under-dosed, so based on sides & results I'd stay at 10 mg, move up to 15-20 if you feel you need, or back down if you try it and don't like the sides. Anavar tends to get less return on investment > 20 mg and no reason to push it- more isn't better, but rather finding your sweet spot between results & sides.

I feel like saying make sure you get good recovery time if you're still doing all this cardio & training 6 days / week. You can compromise your ability to make optimal muscle gains if you're trying to gain and doing things that work against building by burning.

RE: your diet - are you getting any good quality fats?