anavar, primo and winny

**LisaRD23** · 08-12-2009, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by tammyp

the one in blue is nattie, the other anavar only. 1st time.

Nice

**musclemilf** · 08-12-2009, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by sassy69

Anavar is listed as being a good "gain keeper". Also since you can run it long and low dose, it gives your body a longer chance to acclimate to the gains you do make. Since its not like you're gaining 20 additional lb of mass on a var cycle, its not an unreasonable amount for you body to acclimate to over, e.g. a 12 week cycle. Also a big part of any AAS is just the recovery ability so you are improving your body's ability to recover and rebuild from the training sessions.

Its an ongoing journey. I'd venture that if you ate a very targeted diet and went balls to the wall after a very targeted hypertrophy program, you could make at least near comparable gains. Every time you make a change to your program your body is going to respond, but the longer you pay maintain your basic routine of eating sufficiently and training sufficeintly, you will produce and maintain "gains". IMO the worst thing to expect from a cycle is that its the only way to "get gains" and then to think you have to be "on" all the time to maintain gains. Its a journey in the sense that you will always continue to be cycling your diet, your training, your recovery to move forward.

Thank you very much for your succinct reply. I'm 2 years post meno (yay!) and I'm in my mid-40's (I was an early menopauser). I'm thinking of using topical test for other "issues", but I'm wondering if the topical test will somehow interfer or amplify the effects of Anavar. Oh and another question, I was thinking of using half of the recommended dose, 5mg per day versus 10mg. Will I get *some* effect out of 5mgs (2.5 am and 2.5 pm) versus 10mgs?

BTW - I've been weighlifting consistently for 19 years. There's alot to be said for good ol muscle maturity

**Krcz** · 08-13-2009, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by tammyp

the one in blue is nattie, the other anavar only. 1st time.

The difference between pics is amazing. Would you mind sharing what was your diet (calories,macros) and training like?

**tammyp** · 08-13-2009, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Krcz

The difference between pics is amazing. Would you mind sharing what was your diet (calories,macros) and training like?

well that was in 06,so i cant really remember. i did a 12 week bulk with it. training each bp 2 x a week. after 12 weeks, went into contest mode w/ it. started at 10 mg and bumped to 20 as i went.

**Krcz** · 08-13-2009, 02:59 PM

Thank you

**LisaRD23** · 08-14-2009, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by tammyp

.... i did a 12 week bulk with it. training each bp 2 x a week. after 12 weeks, went into contest mode w/ it. started at 10 mg and bumped to 20 as i went.

So how many total weeks did you stay "on", about 24?

**tight booty** · 08-14-2009, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by tammyp

the one in blue is nattie, the other anavar only. 1st time.

Wow, I love your legs!

**tammyp** · 08-14-2009, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by LisaRD23

So how many total weeks did you stay "on", about 24?

i think about that. i went 2 weeks longer that season since i qualified for nationals...i ran it feb through end of june i think.

**LisaRD23** · 08-15-2009, 11:27 AM

In addition to the tablets, I've also heard of "paper-var", any thoughts on the quality between the two?

**Krcz** · 08-15-2009, 12:42 PM

Unless you're buying it from a trusted source, I wouldn't bother.

**tammyp** · 08-15-2009, 03:11 PM

i used paper for a long time..loved it...but hes since been busted.

**LisaRD23** · 08-17-2009, 09:50 AM

Thanks for all the info. I'm still on the fence...

**jk25** · 08-19-2009, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by sassy69

SS might speak differently to the "pct" but with those, they're not very exotic so I'm gonna say no need for tapering off. Mostly watch the diet post-show - i.e. don't plan a massive feeding frenzy after the show is over because that will cause the bigger rebound than anything else.

Otherwise there shouldn't be any sort of rebound. Primo takes 5 weeks to clear and var takes about 3 weeks. (i.e. detection time). Its not like you come off and all of a sudden its out of your body.

If you're seeing water retention from either of these be judicious in providing enough time for it to clear so it doesn't contribute to your peak week water manipulation. For figure, its probably less of a big deal, but still... I'm a big believer in keeping things very simple when you're pushing your body to the extremes.

Is there any anti-estrogens (e.g. nolva) involved? That's where you'd see more of a rebound situation.

Hi Sassy!

Well, 4 weeks post-show happy to report that there was ZERO REBOUND! Diet is clean with some cheats here and there, but nothing major and bodyweight has gone unchanged since the show. NICE!

More questions about Primo (for anyone who can answer)....

Wanted to ask about bloatting. Besides the substantial H20 retention, is it typical for Primo to cause bloating and a feeling of tightening around the ab wall? If so, is there anything that can help reduce this? When doing a building program, in your opinion, should ab work be reduced for fear of overdevelopement? Do you think the bloat issue and abdominal work go hand-in-hand?

Also, what are the risks of toxicity (long term or otherwise) and are there any herbal supplements (besides milk thistle and typical antioxidants) that can be taken as a support on a cycle of P?

.... Lastly, I was told by a reputable source that because Anavar is not "oil based" it can actually be run FOREVER (low dose), if someone actually wanted to do that. I think that sounds crazy, no?

**sassy69** · 08-19-2009, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by jk25

Hi Sassy!

Well, 4 weeks post-show happy to report that there was ZERO REBOUND! Diet is clean with some cheats here and there, but nothing major and bodyweight has gone unchanged since the show. NICE!

Awesome! My best recomendation is just to have some sort of plan so you aren't free-floating -that tends to be when people get off track.

Originally Posted by jk25

More questions about Primo (for anyone who can answer)....

Wanted to ask about bloatting. Besides the substantial H20 retention, is it typical for Primo to cause bloating and a feeling of tightening around the ab wall? If so, is there anything that can help reduce this? When doing a building program, in your opinion, should ab work be reduced for fear of overdevelopement? Do you think the bloat issue and abdominal work go hand-in-hand?

These thoughts are kinda all over the place so I don't really know how to answer them. You shouldn't experience water retention from primo due to conversion. You shouldn't experience any bloating. The only reason I made the comment above is that regardless of what "should" or "should not" happen, if you have any part of your protocol that you suspect is affecting your water, you need to drop it at 10-14 days out from your show date so it doesn't affect your water manipulation.

"Fear of ab work" - um... IMO you gotta be doing a hellabunch of ab work if you think you're getting overdeveloped. Heavy DLs could be an issue. If you're short and already have thick abs it might cause you to start appearing thicker. Your call I guess. No shouldn't have anything to do w/ bloat... not sure I understand your reasoning there so can't really answer.

Originally Posted by jk25

Also, what are the risks of toxicity (long term or otherwise) and are there any herbal supplements (besides milk thistle and typical antioxidants) that can be taken as a support on a cycle of P?

Risk w/ primo is the same as w/ any other AAS if you continue to use or abuse.

I'd recommend including acidophilus w/ any AAs cycle as well because they can cause the balance of good/bad vaginal bacteria to get thrown off, resulting in vaginosis / yeast infection.

Primo (and other aas) can cause hair to fall out - Nizoral shampoo helps reduce this, but hair will come back after the cycle is over and the compound clears.

Originally Posted by jk25

.... Lastly, I was told by a reputable source that because Anavar is not "oil based" it can actually be run FOREVER (low dose), if someone actually wanted to do that. I think that sounds crazy, no?

Anavar is used as a treatment for wasting diseases like HIV / AIDS and other medical uses. Sure you could Don't see the point in doing it just because you can tho.

**ReneeK** · 10-03-2009, 12:19 PM

Has anyone ever used liquid var?

**tammyp** · 10-03-2009, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by ReneeK

Has anyone ever used liquid var?

seen it but no,, never tried it.

**sassy69** · 10-03-2009, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by ReneeK

Has anyone ever used liquid var?

When more powders became available, it was easier to mix it into liquid instead of filling & capping.

Its mixed in water-based solution so you can drink it. People tend to measure by drawing from the bottle w/ a syringe (for accurate dosing), but as you get lower in the bottle, if there are larger chunks of the compound (not in solution), these are harder to draw. This can also make your dosing more inaccurate.

**ReneeK** · 10-03-2009, 04:57 PM

Thanks for the info Sassy!

**RealLilSwole** · 10-03-2009, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by ReneeK

Has anyone ever used liquid var?

I made some once. It worked pretty well. You will just need to figure out how many mg's per ml and use a syrine to draw it up to properly.

**Krcz** · 11-24-2009, 08:30 PM

Is anyone familiar with anavar powder? If so, how do yo take it?

**Gerb** · 01-07-2010, 03:50 PM

1. anyone have postive or negative experiences stacking primo with var?
2. I read recommended dose of 50-150mg on Primo EW earlier in this thread, do you break that up and pin EOD or E3D or just once a week?

Thanks, Steve

**sassy69** · 01-07-2010, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by steve g

1. anyone have postive or negative experiences stacking primo with var?
2. I read recommended dose of 50-150mg on Primo EW earlier in this thread, do you break that up and pin EOD or E3D or just once a week?

Thanks, Steve

Var is a nice support for primo, as primo takes at least 3 weeks to "kick in". SOmething like 50-75 mg E5D will work fine. Would recommend getting a bottle of Nizoral shampoo to address hairloss. Also probably expect some voice cracking. The only note I'd really make is that the primo, in and of itself, will be much more aggressive than the var, so it will be the bigger source of sides vs the combination of the two.

**s2h** · 01-08-2010, 01:28 AM

primo works well, my BB wife perfers it over all others(eq runs 2nd),normal off season is 50 mg every 4 days,really the only side is clitoral enlargement and it always ramps up her sex drive(thats a plus)var we go with 10 mg a day split 5 am 5 mid day to go w/ the primo and 1 iu of gh m-f.it's a nice easy cycle no real sides and nice gains that hold well post cycle.

**KatsMeow** · 01-08-2010, 01:46 AM

I've ran Var and Winny previously, var in capsule form as well as liquid(I make my own), I had terrible sides with Winny Injections such as muscle cramping and joint pain even with glucosamine, it can be drank since it is a 17aa compound but I prefer injections.

I would like to try primo, but I am attempting to drop some body fat and starting a cycle of Clen/T3/Yohimbine Hcl and will be running 25mg of liquid Var along with it since the T3 can be catabolic I believe I will achieve better results this way. Any advice?

Kat

**sassy69** · 01-08-2010, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by KatsMeow

I've ran Var and Winny previously, var in capsule form as well as liquid(I make my own), I had terrible sides with Winny Injections such as muscle cramping and joint pain even with glucosamine, it can be drank since it is a 17aa compound but I prefer injections.

I would like to try primo, but I am attempting to drop some body fat and starting a cycle of Clen/T3/Yohimbine Hcl and will be running 25mg of liquid Var along with it since the T3 can be catabolic I believe I will achieve better results this way. Any advice?

Kat

You can probably go lower on the liquid var. 20 mg seems to be a nice upper limit for var.

People experience joint pain w/ winstrol because it dries out your joints. That is why guys usually mix it w/ a good "lube" compound like deca.

**KatsMeow** · 01-08-2010, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by sassy69

You can probably go lower on the liquid var. 20 mg seems to be a nice upper limit for var.

People experience joint pain w/ winstrol because it dries out your joints. That is why guys usually mix it w/ a good "lube" compound like deca.

Thanks for the response, I'm done with Winny, I believe there are much better compounds. I have a ton of Var so I'm going to use it then I would like to switch to Primo once I can get down to a respectable BF%, I'm interested to see how the Clen/T3/yohimbine combo works out with increased cardio and carb cycling diet.

Kat

**s2h** · 01-08-2010, 01:55 AM

ya i would agree 20 would be better,do you find the liquid doses to be accurate compared to the tabs?

**s2h** · 01-08-2010, 01:56 AM

are you using the clen/yohimbine injectable mix?

**KatsMeow** · 01-08-2010, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by s2h

ya i would agree 20 would be better,do you find the liquid doses to be accurate compared to the tabs?

No, it's not very accurate because it doesn't ever completely blend. I mix it with ETOH and you still end up with some sediment, even with a higher proof so it has to be shaken well prior to dosing.

Kat

**KatsMeow** · 01-08-2010, 02:02 AM

Originally Posted by s2h

are you using the clen/yohimbine injectable mix?

No, thats Helios for spot injections, I would love to get my hands on some of that but it isn't easy to come by. The compound I am using is a tablet form of the mixture clen/yohimbine/t3

**s2h** · 01-08-2010, 02:03 AM

thanks for the info!

**KatsMeow** · 01-08-2010, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by s2h

thanks for the info!

anytime!

**tammyp** · 01-08-2010, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by KatsMeow

No, thats Helios for spot injections, I would love to get my hands on some of that but it isn't easy to come by. The compound I am using is a tablet form of the mixture clen/yohimbine/t3

i used this last year and LOVE IT. doesnt even hold a candle to the tabs.

**KatsMeow** · 01-08-2010, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by tammyp

i used this last year and LOVE IT. doesnt even hold a candle to the tabs.

I'm looking forward to it, I'll be starting in a couple of weeks once I get my schedule and diet in check.

**s2h** · 01-08-2010, 08:21 AM

Forget it there long gone!!!! sorry!

**Krcz** · 01-08-2010, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Krcz

Is anyone familiar with anavar powder? If so, how do yo take it?

Bumping this since the thread is active again. Could sub-lingual be effective?

**sassy69** · 01-08-2010, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Krcz

Bumping this since the thread is active again. Could sub-lingual be effective?

People either cap it themselves or mix it into a liquid form. Sublingual might taste like ass -- I have no idea. But you'd also need an accurate method of measuring.

**KatsMeow** · 01-08-2010, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by sassy69

People either cap it themselves or mix it into a liquid form. Sublingual might taste like ass -- I have no idea. But you'd also need an accurate method of measuring.

Typically I mix mine with ETOH then draw it up in an oral syringe and administer sub lingual until its absorbed.

**KBigz81** · 01-08-2010, 05:18 PM

I'm sorry what is ETOH?

**partsRheavy** · 01-08-2010, 05:38 PM

Back in the old days, this fella was where EtOH came from.

As a, um, non-alcoholic alternative, would anavar dissolve in olive oil??

Originally Posted by KBigz81

I'm sorry what is ETOH?

**sassy69** · 01-08-2010, 06:06 PM

In other words ETOH is ethanol.

**Gerb** · 01-08-2010, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by sassy69

Var is a nice support for primo, as primo takes at least 3 weeks to "kick in". SOmething like 50-75 mg E5D will work fine. Would recommend getting a bottle of Nizoral shampoo to address hairloss. Also probably expect some voice cracking. The only note I'd really make is that the primo, in and of itself, will be much more aggressive than the var, so it will be the bigger source of sides vs the combination of the two.

Thanks for the input Sassy.

Originally Posted by s2h

primo works well, my BB wife perfers it over all others(eq runs 2nd),normal off season is 50 mg every 4 days,really the only side is clitoral enlargement and it always ramps up her sex drive(thats a plus)var we go with 10 mg a day split 5 am 5 mid day to go w/ the primo and 1 iu of gh m-f.it's a nice easy cycle no real sides and nice gains that hold well post cycle.

Thanks for the input.