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  1. #16
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    i am far from an expert.

    i would think that if she has never tried anything and she is concerned...start at 5 and see how she takes to it. increase it if she seems to be fine. i wouldnt go over 20. actually, many women do fine on 10 during a 8-12 wk cycle. some do increase it to 15-20.

    many women start at 10. i always thought that it was best to take two doses. one in a.m. and one in p.m.


    so...from reading above, oral winny is taken everyday?

    do a lot of you women who inject winny, do it everday or every other day? i always thought 3x a week was sufficient.

    karen...you dont want to run nolva over 8 wk...yes you can do 10wks..but don't do more than 10. granted people do...but i dont think it would be that great for your body to do more than that. then again...i have heard one figure women tell me she only ran nolva for the last few wks of her prep.

    nolva doasges...start out low and increase. i hate to give you dosages...I don't know what you are looking like or anything. but most women i know start out low, like at 10, then increase to 15 then 20. some increase to 30 then 40. but for figure...i know a lot of women who didnt go above 20. then again...i know some figure women who were up to 40.

    i didnt use nolva for the 1st time til my jr usa's prep last year. i started at 10 and went up to 20. i also stayed on it for jr nats as well (20). then was off it until early sept. it did increase bc i was doing bb. started at 10, remained at 20 for a while, moved it up to 30, then for the last few wks, it was moved up to 40. but that was for me. idk what you would need to do.

    clen...goodness...the clen question LOL! there are so many theories on the way to run clen.

    some run it straight through. others cycle it...with days on and days off. but make sure you taper up. most women i know dont go over 120 mcg a day. but that would be at the very end. you can start low...like at 20 or 40. taper up throughout the weeks. split your dosage throughout the day or when you get to be taking a lot like 100...a few times a day.

  2. #17
    Super Moderator sassy69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Bracewell View Post
    I have a client that is interested in trying Var. She is 5'3" weighing 145-150, should they start at 5mg ED or would 10mg ED be fine? It is her first time ever to use any kind of anabolic. Also, should her daily dose be split and taken twice a day(i.e. 10mg ED taking 2 doses of 5mg)? Thanks for the help

    Because of her height / weight, I'm going to guess she's not particuarly lean? Or no? Just guessing. If she's not lean, what is her expectation from it? Because var promotes lean muscle mass, a person who is e.g. > 12-14% bf is going to appear & feel "thicker". Just want the expectations to be realistic.

    Var you'd want to start at 5 mg ED for 10-14 days. This is about how long it takes to "feel" it and thus find out if whatever you have is overdosed, underdosed, fake, something different, something that has bad sides. Then assuming nothing weird happens, go up to 10 mg ED. Really no reason to go more than that, unless it just seems like nothing is happening - then its possible whatever you have is underdosed. And make sure your diet is geared towards whatever goal you want. The AAS will just support whatever your program is geared towards.

    You can go 12 weeks if u want. And yes, split the dose in 1/2 am & 1/2 pm. The reason is that anavar has a 1/2 life of about 9 hours. This means the dose is half depleted by that time. If you split it across the day, it reduces the spikes in your body response - i.e. if you do 1/day, then the daily dose is mostly depleted and then you throw another one in the next day - so the amount in your system is depleting & refilling every day, vs keeping a more level amount. Keeping the levels more even / consistent helps also to minimize the sides.

    "Stacking", you can go w/ clen. There are different ways people run it. I've never seen anyone say there is only ONE way to do it. IMO it depends more on what you can live with and also the fact that clen is still only slightly better at fat burning than OTC thermos, so its not the be all & end all. It still will primarily be your diet & training. I think Ondrea mentions a couple ways - the standby approach I've seen for years is 2 weeks on / 2 off, using an OTC thermo on the off weeks as it gives a chance to clear receptors of the clen. Start each 2 'on' weeks at 20 mcg (std clen tab size). If first day at 20 mcg is ok for sides, next day do 20 mcg in AM, 20 mcg in PM, next day add 20 mcg to the AM dose, stay same for PM dose, continue until 100mcg/day. No reason to go higher than that. If sides are too much, then just back off the next day or stay the same. It takes about 36 hrs for clen to "clear" so keep that in mind if you take too much and don't like the sides. I've heard of people taking too much and then running off to the emergency room because they feell like they are in the throws of a panic attack (which is what clen basicaly makes you feel like). And all they can do is tell you to ride it out until it clears. So no need to be aggressive w/ it.. just go as you can. Also include l-taurine with it as clen tends to inhibit taurine which is one of the main causes of cramping. Also drink lots of water. I suggest you google clen + taurine to understand more about it.

    Nolva - as mentioned - is not something you want to cycle for a long time. You're basically trying to manipulate your menstrual cycle. The end result is that it helps to reduce the impact of estrogen-pattern fat depositing around the midsection, butt, thighs, but its not a maintenance protocol. I.e. when you come off your natural estrogen cycle kicks in again and will pretty much just start up its natural effects right away. It is also not uncommon to experience a bit of a rebound when you come off. The estrogen cycle seems to be pretty robust and trying to manipulate it for anythign other than a short-term goal, e.g. a competition date, is just not a good expectation. Typical dose is 1 tab (20 mg) - also split these in 1/2, am & pm. IMO no need to go > 20 mg. No need to start low & build up. Keep the cycle to < 8 weeks at absolute max. I'd also suggest when you're done w/ the cycle, to ramp down the dose, e.g. in 1/2 for 2 days, then in 1/2 again for 2 days until nothing.
    Last edited by sassy69; 04-22-2009 at 10:07 PM.
    "The only way you can hurt the body is not use it. Inactivity is the killer and, remember, it's never too late."
    ~Jack Lalanne



  3. #18
    ASC Pro Strongman Ryan Bracewell's Avatar
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    Thanks sassy. She is not fat, but not lean by BBing standard, and is pretty muscular. She really just wants to try it ans see how it aids her training, and is not expecting any outragous results.

  4. #19
    Super Moderator sassy69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Bracewell View Post
    Thanks sassy. She is not fat, but not lean by BBing standard, and is pretty muscular. She really just wants to try it ans see how it aids her training, and is not expecting any outragous results.
    OK .. lots of women start out thinking AAS is some sort of fat burner and then when they start getting "thicker" instead of leaning out, they are not happy w/ the cycle. So just very important to have the correct expectations.

    In this case she'll see an increase in strength, and more so in recovery after around 2 weeks. I'd suggest to pay attention to the rate of increase in weights lifted because it helps muscle strength but not joint / tendon strength. Perfect opportunity to create tendonitis problems if the increase is too fast.

    Only side, aside from interrupted period, will probably be acne, possibly some water retention.
    "The only way you can hurt the body is not use it. Inactivity is the killer and, remember, it's never too late."
    ~Jack Lalanne



  5. #20
    Master Scribe Lee Penman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ondrea View Post
    i am far from an expert.

    i would think that if she has never tried anything and she is concerned...start at 5 and see how she takes to it. increase it if she seems to be fine. i wouldnt go over 20. actually, many women do fine on 10 during a 8-12 wk cycle. some do increase it to 15-20.

    many women start at 10. i always thought that it was best to take two doses. one in a.m. and one in p.m.


    so...from reading above, oral winny is taken everyday?

    do a lot of you women who inject winny, do it everday or every other day? i always thought 3x a week was sufficient.

    karen...you dont want to run nolva over 8 wk...yes you can do 10wks..but don't do more than 10. granted people do...but i dont think it would be that great for your body to do more than that. then again...i have heard one figure women tell me she only ran nolva for the last few wks of her prep.

    nolva doasges...start out low and increase. i hate to give you dosages...I don't know what you are looking like or anything. but most women i know start out low, like at 10, then increase to 15 then 20. some increase to 30 then 40. but for figure...i know a lot of women who didnt go above 20. then again...i know some figure women who were up to 40.

    i didnt use nolva for the 1st time til my jr usa's prep last year. i started at 10 and went up to 20. i also stayed on it for jr nats as well (20). then was off it until early sept. it did increase bc i was doing bb. started at 10, remained at 20 for a while, moved it up to 30, then for the last few wks, it was moved up to 40. but that was for me. idk what you would need to do.

    clen...goodness...the clen question LOL! there are so many theories on the way to run clen.

    some run it straight through. others cycle it...with days on and days off. but make sure you taper up. most women i know dont go over 120 mcg a day. but that would be at the very end. you can start low...like at 20 or 40. taper up throughout the weeks. split your dosage throughout the day or when you get to be taking a lot like 100...a few times a day.
    Good advice...still waiting for you to contact me re article. E mail me at leighpenman@live.com and let's discuss options.

  6. #21
    GYM RAT maxititer's Avatar
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    Chlorodehydromethyltestosterone - turinabol another suitable for woman steroid with low androgenic acivity index 0.10=0.15 simalr to primobolan and myotrophic activity index 0.50. Turinabol also do not converts into estrogens and do not converts into DHT.

    not sure if some one had any experience with it.

  7. #22
    Super Moderator sassy69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxititer View Post
    Chlorodehydromethyltestosterone - turinabol another suitable for woman steroid with low androgenic acivity index 0.10=0.15 simalr to primobolan and myotrophic activity index 0.50. Turinabol also do not converts into estrogens and do not converts into DHT.

    not sure if some one had any experience with it.
    Generally described as similar to Anavar, dosed similarly, but with slightly slower-to-arrive results. But still good results. Also an oral if you're not into injectibles.
    "The only way you can hurt the body is not use it. Inactivity is the killer and, remember, it's never too late."
    ~Jack Lalanne



  8. #23
    BARBARIAN BROTHER AndroGrrL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SallyAnne View Post
    I thought I read somewhere that adnrogrrl was injecting, which is why I asked.
    Quote Originally Posted by SallyAnne View Post
    are you taking yours orally?
    I was injecting mine. I had read before (and from a few females I've talked to who took the depot orally) that you need to slightly increase the dosage to make it equivalent to the dosage you inject...so I figure why not use less and inject

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassy69 View Post
    Var you'd want to start at 5 mg ED for 10-14 days. This is about how long it takes to "feel" it and thus find out if whatever you have is overdosed, underdosed, fake, something different, something that has bad sides. Then assuming nothing weird happens, go up to 10 mg ED. Really no reason to go more than that, unless it just seems like nothing is happening - then its possible whatever you have is underdosed. And make sure your diet is geared towards whatever goal you want. The AAS will just support whatever your program is geared towards.

    You can go 12 weeks if u want. And yes, split the dose in 1/2 am & 1/2 pm. The reason is that anavar has a 1/2 life of about 9 hours. This means the dose is half depleted by that time. If you split it across the day, it reduces the spikes in your body response - i.e. if you do 1/day, then the daily dose is mostly depleted and then you throw another one in the next day - so the amount in your system is depleting & refilling every day, vs keeping a more level amount. Keeping the levels more even / consistent helps also to minimize the sides.
    I just started Var 10mg ED. I take them in the morning and I was going to wait at least 10 days before going up to 20mg ED. Should I still just split the cap in the morning and evening? Or bump up to 20mg ED already?

    Granted this is not my first time on Var, but it is my first educated cycle.

  10. #25
    Super Moderator sassy69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devil's_daughter View Post
    I just started Var 10mg ED. I take them in the morning and I was going to wait at least 10 days before going up to 20mg ED. Should I still just split the cap in the morning and evening? Or bump up to 20mg ED already?

    Granted this is not my first time on Var, but it is my first educated cycle.
    First CAN you split it if its a cap? Second I'd still wait the 10 days. Its just a safety precaution and there's no reason to rush any part of a cycle.
    "The only way you can hurt the body is not use it. Inactivity is the killer and, remember, it's never too late."
    ~Jack Lalanne



  11. #26
    PENCILNECK devil's_daughter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassy69 View Post
    First CAN you split it if its a cap? Second I'd still wait the 10 days. Its just a safety precaution and there's no reason to rush any part of a cycle.
    Not techincally no. Messy yes. I think I'm going to take your advice and wait the 10 days out .

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by devil's_daughter View Post
    Not techincally no. Messy yes. I think I'm going to take your advice and wait the 10 days out .
    I started out at 10 mg and then bumped it up to 20 mg after 2 weeks. This is my first educated cycle too.

  13. #28
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    Tammy, thanks for posting the Primo and Avar profiles! Question for you or Sassy...

    I have a friend looking to make lean gains, and or preserve muscle as she leans out for a show (131lbs @ 16% bf wants to get down to 8%). Any insight into if there was an ideal way to stack the two over a 9 week period? She has experience with 10mg of Avar and or also 1/2 of 25mg Primo. Are these counter-intuitive or too much together?

  14. #29
    Super Moderator sassy69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jk25 View Post
    Tammy, thanks for posting the Primo and Avar profiles! Question for you or Sassy...

    I have a friend looking to make lean gains, and or preserve muscle as she leans out for a show (131lbs @ 16% bf wants to get down to 8%). Any insight into if there was an ideal way to stack the two over a 9 week period? She has experience with 10mg of Avar and or also 1/2 of 25mg Primo. Are these counter-intuitive or too much together?
    What type of show are we talking about ? Figure? In 9 weeks "lean gains" will be limited because the diet won't be geared towards building anyway

    At 9 weeks, the diet should start driving the final run into cuts ville, but var will support the cut & prevent muscle loss. Primo is also a good cutter tho 9 weeks is just inside of what I'd consider too short of a cycle w/ primo. What does it mean "1/2 of 25 mg Primo"? I'm gonna guess primo tabs? W/ those I don't know so much about how the dosing compares w/ standard inject primo. Primo takes about 5 weeks just to show itself, but it doesn't convert so is also good for dialing in & hardening up.

    So yes you can stack them. Expect harsher sides from the primo than from the var, so be prepared. No reason to go at higher doses than you suggest. In a stack w/ the more aggressive stuff, var just seems to add an underlying 'support' for the stack and also while the other compound is building itself up (e.g. the 5 weeks).

    Both will support better recovery and enable heavier training. But also be prepared for the increase in lean muscle mass and make sure that diet is hella tight. Or it can lead to just looking thicker. (I.e. cycles when you aren't < 12-13% bf). And if she's already cycled both of those, she knows what supporting stuff to get -e.g. nizoral if hair issues, anti-oxidants to keep the byproducts of all the body functions being shuttled out, etc. Recommend acidophilus because any AAS can promote yeast infections. And pay attention to if she retains water from either --- be sure then to cut out the retentive compound at no less than 10 days so it doesn't complicate your water depletion.
    "The only way you can hurt the body is not use it. Inactivity is the killer and, remember, it's never too late."
    ~Jack Lalanne



  15. #30
    Master Scribe Lee Penman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxititer View Post
    Chlorodehydromethyltestosterone - turinabol another suitable for woman steroid with low androgenic acivity index 0.10=0.15 simalr to primobolan and myotrophic activity index 0.50. Turinabol also do not converts into estrogens and do not converts into DHT.

    not sure if some one had any experience with it.
    One thing...Turanabol does have an effect on the ovaries...not so good.

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