Anavar Cycle 20mg / 40mg HELP

[JohnnyOOO]

My Significant Other has always been obsessed with the gym and dieting and looks great. I have always been supportive... UNTIL NOW. Her new obsession is to win a Fitness Bikini competition, ok fine. She has a good trainer BUT her dietician(degreed professional) is also a PRO male bodybuilder. She just showed me the diet plans for the 6 weeks before competition and he has her taking Anavar as follows(her first cycle):

Weeks 1-3 — 20 mg per day Monday thru Saturday
Weeks 4-6 — 40 mg per day Monday thru Saturday

I have long term experience with my doctor prescribed HRT but zero information for female cycle. I have done a few hours of research on several boards and it seems her cycle is way over the top on the Mg's per day. Any input from someone in the know might help me convince her of this.... Or maybe I am just over reacting(that what she will tell me).

Thank you in advance for you advice and consideration.

[sassy69]

First thing is for her to ask questions. A good one is WHY anavar? A good follow up is WHY this dosing schedule? If no straight answer is given then the next question is WHY can't you give a straight answer?

Also what is "Fitness Bikini"? What federation are we talking about? Generally I don't see the point in steroids for Bikini, but I don't know what "Fitness Bikini" is. Apparently it warrants steroids.

Here is a summary & some references of general guidance on anavar cycles. I highly recommend your SO does a lot of research on her own as well as asking a lot of questions to the guy recommending this cycle. She certainly has the right to understand what is being asked of her, because its her body this stuff is going into.

I can guess the reason for the shorter cycle and the aggressive dosing - I expect he thinks the approach is to hit it hard and aggressive but short enough that the sides shouldn't accumulate. And additionally he is recommending it "to win". I personally think there's a lot to be said for getting a competition under your belt before you start cycling specifically for a show w/ no time to experiment w/ a cycle and also w/o having any idea of it is even necessary.

Can't say I've seen this approach very often. Some particular concerns are that she has no experience w/ anavar and will not know what to expect and the higher dose can promote more of any sides that might affect her more - e.g. water retention, BP-related headaches or nose bleeds. The usual sides of acne, oily skin would probably be expected. ALso because this is a short cycle, not sure what it will do to her menstrual cycle. If she experiences water retention, be sure to drop the cycle 10 days before the target date.

For my own opinions, I'd probably suggest to cap it at 20 mg. And as noted in the article below - include acidophilus in the supplements to help prevent yeast infections.

Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS)

A note about available steroid information: Most of what is out there on muscle forums and even medical studies is primarily written with men in mind. The subject of women and steroids is much less studied and published. The detail written here is based on both published and anecdotal information, and some good guesses based on “what seems to work”. This puts more of the onus on women to educate themselves to make informed choices for themselves. Always remember: YOUR body, YOUR results, YOUR sides. Well-intentioned husbands / boyfriends / male friends / guys from the gym, even experienced, are not necessarily going to be giving you the best or right information on which to base your decisions. The basic chemistry is different, the dosing is different and the risks are different. At the end of the day, it is always your own personal chemistry experiment and no one can take the risks for you.

And a last note on what should be the obvious thought – ANY supplement – over-the-counter, prescribed or illegal, is always only going to be a SUPPLEMENT to an already existing and functioning diet and training program. There are no quicky fixes and nothing is for free. You will not get the results you envision using any supplement if you don’t already have your diet and training in place and working. If this is not true, chances are you are going to end up in a place worse than better.
This section will include links to the standard steroid profiles for the technical details, with most of the discussion focused on use, specifically for women. Please note that most steroid profiles are written with men in mind as the target audience and relative to male hormone profiles. Any dosing recommended is not going to be appropriate for women unless otherwise specified.

Here are two articles in general that are worth reading:

· Women and Steroids: http://www.steroid.com/women_and_steroids.php
· Women and Testosterone: http://www.steroid.com/TestosteroneinWomen.php

Anavar (Oxandrolone)

Profile: http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthread.php?t=27095

Anavar is probably the most commonly used AAS by women, for physique competition or by women who "want to go to the next level". It might be used by figure competitors for off-season building with an appropriate diet, or during contest prep for cutting, preservation of muscle during a cutting diet, and improved recovery.

Anavar promotes lean muscle mass with minimal sides and occasional water retention. It is a oral steroid, though used in small enough doses that its impact on the liver is minimal for women. It is also attractive to women and beginners who are not interested in dealing with needles. The predictable and minimal sides are also attractive points to those not wanting to deal with the more individual and androgenic sides of most other AAS.

Typical Cycle
· Dose: 10 mg / day - split the dose 1/2 in the AM, 1/2 in the PM
· Duration: 10-14 weeks
· No need to taper down the dose or follow with post cycle therapy (PCT).
· It is generally suggested to start the cycle at 5 mg / day (splitting doses as above) for the first 10-14 days to identify any adverse reaction. After that time, you can increase to 10 mg / day.
· Suggested maximum dose is 20 mg / day (though more is not better - often 10 mg is sufficient). As the dose increases, sides may increase and results don't necessarily increase. Anecdotally, if the cycler is interested in going to doses above 20 mg, the sides can begin to accumulate and the impact on your liver becomes more of a consideration. Based on this and the cost (anavar is typically one of the more expensive compounds), if you are looking for more aggressive results, this is the point where people will move to a more aggressive, cheaper, injectable compound.

Typical Sides
· interrupted period / flow - may take a few months for the flow to come back as normal. Note this does NOT mean you won’t get pregnant.
· you may still experience usual menstrual sides (cramps, bloating, etc.) on your regular menstrual schedule
· mild acne
· Clitoral enlargement and increased sensitivity
· oily hair
· some experience water retention (though not due to aromatization)
· may cause vaginosis / yeast infection (most any AAS has this potential)
· occasionally people experience nose bleeds

[JohnnyOOO]

Dear sassy69,

Thank you very much for the very informative and thought provoking response. My SO has listened to your advice and will not exceed the 20mg per day, hopefully if she does another cycle she might not need to exceed 10mg per day.

First thing is for her to ask questions. A good one is WHY anavar? A good follow up is WHY this dosing schedule? If no straight answer is given then the next question is WHY can't you give a straight answer?

She had no explanation for Why Anavar or Why the dosing schedule, other than the honest response "because the PRO bodybuilder is a guru" and she was doing what he told her to do. After I explained to her where I posted my concerns and informed her WHO responded she was very comfortable listening to my advice, actually your advice. She will come here and research and ask before trying anything else in the future. She also spoke with a medical doctor that does have some knowledge in this area.

Also what is "Fitness Bikini"? What federation are we talking about? Generally I don't see the point in steroids for Bikini, but I don't know what "Fitness Bikini" is. Apparently it warrants steroids.

My mistake/mis-interpretation using the term "Fitness Bikini" , we are in another country and I still can't determine the federation for this contest. I know if she places in the top 3 she can compete in the upcoming IFBB event(BIKINI) being held in the area. IMHO I don't think any Bikini warrants steroids, but hey that's easy for a guy to say while sitting on the sidelines. I do know her genetic disposition is to be skinny and she has been working out diligently for years and always dieting/eating to try and gain mass. My guess is she was frustrated and decided to try AAS, pretty sure she is not the first nor the last.

Here is a summary & some references of general guidance on anavar cycles. I highly recommend your SO does a lot of research on her own as well as asking a lot of questions to the guy recommending this cycle. She certainly has the right to understand what is being asked of her, because its her body this stuff is going into.

See above but she has received and embraced the message loud & clear, do your own research and look for someone with female CHEM experience. Honestly I was quite pissed when I saw what he wanted her to do, it was the catalyst for me posting here and I am grateful for your response!

I can guess the reason for the shorter cycle and the aggressive dosing - I expect he thinks the approach is to hit it hard and aggressive but short enough that the sides shouldn't accumulate. And additionally he is recommending it "to win". I personally think there's a lot to be said for getting a competition under your belt before you start cycling specifically for a show w/ no time to experiment w/ a cycle and also w/o having any idea of it is even necessary.

Can't say I've seen this approach very often. Some particular concerns are that she has no experience w/ anavar and will not know what to expect and the higher dose can promote more of any sides that might affect her more - e.g. water retention, BP-related headaches or nose bleeds. The usual sides of acne, oily skin would probably be expected. Also because this is a short cycle, not sure what it will do to her menstrual cycle. If she experiences water retention, be sure to drop the cycle 10 days before the target date.

I have seen it in a lot of your posts and many others.... the mantra ..... WOMEN do not just listen to some guy, your husband or boyfriend, or friend in the gym about what type of AAS you should take. Find a person with knowledge & experience regarding how AAS work differently in your bodies than in male bodies! PLEASE HEED THIS ADVICE! In college(many years ago) I did some research on AAS, but it was limited to males as is probably 95%+ of the studies. I was smart enough to seek advice from others that would know the difference with females and did not try and transfer my old limited knowledge from males over to a female cycle.

For my own opinions, I'd probably suggest to cap it at 20 mg. And as noted in the article below - include acidophilus in the supplements to help prevent yeast infections.

As stated above she has heeded your advice. Of course her male PRO advisor did not suggest any acidophilus, but she has it now!

THANK YOU VERY MUCH SASSY, you have made a difference with my SO and hopefully a few others that might read this post.

My deepest gratitude and respect.

JohnnyOOO

[Suzanne]

Bikini competiors don't need to use anavar at all
Why Mon-Sat? no sun? this makes no sense
and that dosei is very, very high

[sassy69]

FWIW, again I don't know anything about your SO - so generally I don't see a reason for Bikini competitors using any steroids. If she is a "hard gainer", my next question is going to be, has she ever EATEN for the goal of growing? It often isn't in the vocabulary of someone who wants to "stay lean" but you still have to eat to grow. Steroids will help support to grow, but if you're not eating to support that same goal, whatever gains you make won't be supported by your body over time because your diet doesn't support it.

But either way, if you're going to go into the dark side, first get some details on the diet. And very honestly there is absolutely no reason to go higher than 5-10 mg / day, run it every day, not 6 days / week. It needs to be consistent.

[s2h]

i dont know what country you reside in...but high dose AAS use is pretty common in many countries in europe and the middle east...male bb's in alot of these countries are known to run much more aggresive cycles then some of there american counter parts(sometimes really aggresive)...espc in the Amatuer level....this would be why i would think he has her running a more aggresive first time pre contest cycle...it just maybe part of the norm wherever you live..all i can say is if i had a female bikini client regardless of how she looked i wouldnt use that amount of anavar...something in the 5-10mg dose ed would be more of the range on average if needed..the monday thru friday schedule is not unheard of by any means...i'm assuming she is training m-f and thats the thought behind it..i'm not a fan of the m-f cycle idea..but also cant say for sure it wouldnt work...its all varies with diff people..and the fact that she is not using any thermos(unless it wasnt listed)leads me to believe she has a very small build for what type of contest she is competing in...lots of unknown..but the overall risk doesnt appear from this side to be worth the reward...

[sassy69]

i dont know what country you reside in...but high dose AAS use is pretty common in many countries in europe and the middle east...male bb's in alot of these countries are known to run much more aggresive cycles then some of there american counter parts(sometimes really aggresive)...espc in the Amatuer level....this would be why i would think he has her running a more aggresive first time pre contest cycle...it just maybe part of the norm wherever you live..all i can say is if i had a female bikini client regardless of how she looked i wouldnt use that amount of anavar...something in the 5-10mg dose ed would be more of the range on average if needed..the monday thru friday schedule is not unheard of by any means...i'm assuming she is training m-f and thats the thought behind it..i'm not a fan of the m-f cycle idea..but also cant say for sure it wouldnt work...its all varies with diff people..and the fact that she is not using any thermos(unless it wasnt listed)leads me to believe she has a very small build for what type of contest she is competing in...lots of unknown..but the overall risk doesnt appear from this side to be worth the reward...

From a 'different country' standpoint, the hot item in S. America is winstrol. But yea, in context of 'what is common' in the given area, I can see that, but still, aggressively loading the orals is not always recommended. The short time, again I see as the attempt to counter the effect of the high dose orals by keeping it shorter, but then I really don't now how that compares to a lower /. longer cycle. I still feel like its overkill for the goal and I would worry about the impact of bombing a body that has never used AAS before, w/ a high dose and no real experience in what to expect. It could go great, or be a real mess, as always - your own personal chemistry experiment. At a minimum I'd go a conservative route. If you expect to nail a pro card w/ one show, I think the expectation are wrong and I so wish that the view to getting on stage was a little more longer-sighted.

[s2h]

From a 'different country' standpoint, the hot item in S. America is winstrol. But yea, in context of 'what is common' in the given area, I can see that, but still, aggressively loading the orals is not always recommended. The short time, again I see as the attempt to counter the effect of the high dose orals by keeping it shorter, but then I really don't now how that compares to a lower /. longer cycle. I still feel like its overkill for the goal and I would worry about the impact of bombing a body that has never used AAS before, w/ a high dose and no real experience in what to expect. It could go great, or be a real mess, as always - your own personal chemistry experiment. At a minimum I'd go a conservative route. If you expect to nail a pro card w/ one show, I think the expectation are wrong and I so wish that the view to getting on stage was a little more longer-sighted.

yep..i'm def not supporting the theory...the mindset with AAS use is def more liberal in certain countries..moderation is very important..