Pre Workout Nutrition While in Caloric Deficit

[euclid]

Hi everyone, I posted this over at bb.com, but I am finding that while there are MANY knowledgeable folks over there, many posts are sent into the abyss due to the sheer number of repeated questions that are posted daily. This place seems to be full of thoughtful people.

This isn't necessarily a topic about retaining muscles while employing a fat loss program as it is a topic about pre-workout nutrition that will help put the body in a state that will promote and support an intense weight lifting workout.

I know that some muscle will be lost when purposefully cutting weight and that strength gains will not be as frequent or impressive as they would be while in caloric excess. But, I want to try and live in the moment and make each weight lifting workout as effective as is absolutely possible, from a strength standpoint.

My goal, right now and for the forseeable future is to be as strong as I can, while maintaining 10-14% bf levels (I am currently 18-19% bf, but am making great progress towards my initial fat loss goal and haven't noticed a significant drop in strength, yet, but my numbers aren't improving as nicely as the were when I was in a caloric excess. I'm not nearly as strong as most of you guys on here, but the strength numbers below are all personal records.

Current Stats:
205.5 lbs
18-19% BF (using calipers)
Daily Calorie intake: 2700
Macros: 40/40/20
Bench: 250 (1RM)
Squat: 305 (3x5)
Deadlift: 350 (1RM)

I imagine that a very specific kind of pre-w/o nutrition is in order, but am not sure what it would consist of from an:

1. Caloric Level (obviously dependent on body-weight, overall caloric daily requirement, workout intensity)
2. Macro Level (what split is optimal for prolonged energy and focus?)
3. Time Standpoint (when should the pre-w/o nutrition be ingested?)

My gut would tell me that before a workout, I would need to consume significantly more calories than if I were just going about my normal routine of 6 400-500 calorie meals/day. I would guess that a generous mix of complex and also simple carbs, and also healthy fats is more important than protein intake at this time? Would anyone be so kind as to recommend a pre-workout meal appropriate for my size?

I apologize for the length of this post but its something I truly care about and would value your input on.

Thanks,
Steve

[HOOPIE]

When im cutting my pre workout meal is 30g of protein with about 50g carbs...My weight is about the same as yours. Theres times where i have 30g protein and 2 tbsp natty pb. A lot of it depends on what your macros are for that day as to what you can eat. If my carbs are low that day then i save them for post workout and have the natty pb.

For example:
8 egg white
2 whole eggs
1/2-3/4 cup oats

[freak]

arent the daily calories a little high?? i'm around 15% bf, 235lbs and am only getting around 2700 cals. my pre-w/o supp is 13g carbs, 10g BCAA's. usually eat a meal of 150g chicken breast, 100g salad, 1 tbsp mac nut oil about an hour before the w/o.

[euclid]

arent the daily calories a little high?? i'm around 15% bf, 235lbs and am only getting around 2700 cals. my pre-w/o supp is 13g carbs, 10g BCAA's. usually eat a meal of 150g chicken breast, 100g salad, 1 tbsp mac nut oil about an hour before the w/o.

Determining calories has been like an unsolvable mathematical problem. I started at 215, 24% bf and here it is almost 4 weeks later and I've dropped 15 pounds, which makes me think I'm not getting enough cals; plus I'm not necessarily tired all the time, but feel drowsy even though I get 8-9 hours of sleep a night. I don't know, what do you think?

I'm trying to get to a point where I see my abs for the first time - I don't need to be shredded, but I want to at least see their outline. I'll be 30 in November, my girlfriend is leaving me and I've always carried about 20-25% bf. Not depressed, just saying I'm motivated now more than ever and am willing to do whatever it takes.

[euclid]

When im cutting my pre workout meal is 30g of protein with about 50g carbs...My weight is about the same as yours. Theres times where i have 30g protein and 2 tbsp natty pb. A lot of it depends on what your macros are for that day as to what you can eat. If my carbs are low that day then i save them for post workout and have the natty pb.

For example:
8 egg white
2 whole eggs
1/2-3/4 cup oats

Thanks so much for your input, I truly appreciate it.

[freak]

Determining calories has been like an unsolvable mathematical problem. I started at 215, 24% bf and here it is almost 4 weeks later and I've dropped 15 pounds, which makes me think I'm not getting enough cals; plus I'm not necessarily tired all the time, but feel drowsy even though I get 8-9 hours of sleep a night. I don't know, what do you think?

I'm trying to get to a point where I see my abs for the first time - I don't need to be shredded, but I want to at least see their outline. I'll be 30 in November, my girlfriend is leaving me and I've always carried about 20-25% bf. Not depressed, just saying I'm motivated now more than ever and am willing to do whatever it takes.

i know what you mean bro. when you're at a high bodyfat like you were, when you get your nutrition and training on point most comes off pretty easily, but once you get down to the lower levels it becomes a bit more scientific and individualistic. you have to find what works for you.

you say that you feel sluggish through the day, so i would say go on a low-carb diet. i know when i keep carbs in my diet while im running a deficit i feel tired as a bitch. but when i cut my carbs to <80g/day i feel a lot better. your body then doesnt really have to option to burn carbs instead of fats. once the carbs go much above that, shit turns sour. if you want some really solid advice, go into dave's thread and ask. there is also a site razorripped.com. the owner of the site is a nutritionist and has taught me a lot. just make sure you put in "freak" as your referral haha.

[SoxFan11]

I wouldn't worry too much about losing 15 pounds in four weeks, especially since you're coming down from a relatively high BF%. However, if you continue to drop 4 pounds per week, then I'd be worried that your calories are too low and you may be sacrificing lean muscle.

I'm guessing/assuming that since you've lowered your calories that you've also lowered your carbs (in absolute terms, obviously, but also as a percentage of your calories). Thus, pre-workout and post-workout are two of the three times of the day where you should be consuming nearly all of your carbs. The other time being breakfast, of course.

I would suggest a pre-workout shake with a ratio of about 3:2 carb to protein. Actual amount would be dependent on the time period from your last whole food meal. For example, I have a whole food meal 1.5 hours before training, so I have 30 grams of oat starch with 20 grams of whey protein. However, if your last whole food meal is 3 hours before training, I'd bump it up to 60 carb, 40 protein.

Also, don't get discouraged if your lifts stagnate or even go down some. This is normal when you're in caloric deficit. Just keep your mind focused on the overall goal, which is to bring your bodyfat down while maintaining lean muscle. Making this type of transformation will be as much, if not more, of a mental challenge than a physical one.

Keep us updated on your progress or if you have any other questions. There are quite a few folks around here who are more than willing to give their feedback and suggestions.

Congratulations to you on making this change in your life!

[freak]

I wouldn't worry too much about losing 15 pounds in four weeks, especially since you're coming down from a relatively high BF%. However, if you continue to drop 4 pounds per week, then I'd be worried that your calories are too low and you may be sacrificing lean muscle.

I'm guessing/assuming that since you've lowered your calories that you've also lowered your carbs (in absolute terms, obviously, but also as a percentage of your calories). Thus, pre-workout and post-workout are two of the three times of the day where you should be consuming nearly all of your carbs. The other time being breakfast, of course.

I would suggest a pre-workout shake with a ratio of about 3:2 carb to protein. Actual amount would be dependent on the time period from your last whole food meal. For example, I have a whole food meal 1.5 hours before training, so I have 30 grams of oat starch with 20 grams of whey protein. However, if your last whole food meal is 3 hours before training, I'd bump it up to 60 carb, 40 protein.

Also, don't get discouraged if your lifts stagnate or even go down some. This is normal when you're in caloric deficit. Just keep your mind focused on the overall goal, which is to bring your bodyfat down while maintaining lean muscle. Making this type of transformation will be as much, if not more, of a mental challenge than a physical one.

Keep us updated on your progress or if you have any other questions. There are quite a few folks around here who are more than willing to give their feedback and suggestions.

Congratulations to you on making this change in your life!

how many carbs do you take in during a cut? for me, carbs have to be very low or else i feel tired as fuck. ps. i wasnt trying to spam, just giving him another outlet. razor stops by here from time to time as well.

[SoxFan11]

how many carbs do you take in during a cut? for me, carbs have to be very low or else i feel tired as fuck. ps. i wasnt trying to spam, just giving him another outlet. razor stops by here from time to time as well.

No worries about it. I'm a member of there, too.

I've actually found that cycling my carbs works best for me. What I'd do in the past was 1 moderate carb day, 2 low carb days, then high carb, repeat. I also have friends who need to do 3-4 low carb days before they carb back up. Again, these are all nattys, which I think makes a difference.

Right now, to maintain, I eat about 150 grams of carbs 5 out of 7 days. One day is moderate level, the other is a high carb day. I've found that my system is working much better without a lot of rice, sweet potatoes, etc.

[freak]

No worries about it. I'm a member of there, too.

I've actually found that cycling my carbs works best for me. What I'd do in the past was 1 moderate carb day, 2 low carb days, then high carb, repeat. I also have friends who need to do 3-4 low carb days before they carb back up. Again, these are all nattys, which I think makes a difference.

Right now, to maintain, I eat about 150 grams of carbs 5 out of 7 days. One day is moderate level, the other is a high carb day. I've found that my system is working much better without a lot of rice, sweet potatoes, etc.

yeah im still a natty... just picked up a few things about "substances" from browsing rr's site. i used to do the 3-on then cheat day thing but i need more time on my low-carbs to get the fire really burning. 5 days minimum and i dont crave carbs at all after 2 days... around 7 days i usually end up craving pizza or some bullshit like that.

[SoxFan11]

yeah im still a natty... just picked up a few things about "substances" from browsing rr's site. i used to do the 3-on then cheat day thing but i need more time on my low-carbs to get the fire really burning. 5 days minimum and i dont crave carbs at all after 2 days... around 7 days i usually end up craving pizza or some bullshit like that.

I am wondering how my body will respond to dieting this year. I haven't done a contest diet in a few years and now that I am so close to 40 I know that it's going to be different. I'll probably need to go 3 or 4 days low carb, maybe more.

It is weird how the body then gets random cravings. For me, it's either pizza or subs.

[freak]

I am wondering how my body will respond to dieting this year. I haven't done a contest diet in a few years and now that I am so close to 40 I know that it's going to be different. I'll probably need to go 3 or 4 days low carb, maybe more.

It is weird how the body then gets random cravings. For me, it's either pizza or subs.

the thought of a quizno's chicken carbonara makes me turgid

[SoxFan11]

the thought of a quizno's chicken carbonara makes me turgid

Last Sunday night I had a buffalo chicken sub. Hadn't been able to find one since I left Boston. It was amazing.

[euclid]

I wouldn't worry too much about losing 15 pounds in four weeks, especially since you're coming down from a relatively high BF%. However, if you continue to drop 4 pounds per week, then I'd be worried that your calories are too low and you may be sacrificing lean muscle.

First - let me thank you for all of your input, this stuff is invaluable...

I'm guessing/assuming that since you've lowered your calories that you've also lowered your carbs (in absolute terms, obviously, but also as a percentage of your calories). Thus, pre-workout and post-workout are two of the three times of the day where you should be consuming nearly all of your carbs. The other time being breakfast, of course.

Before changing my diet, I would have to say that the vast majority of my daily calories were consumed as carbs (lots of breads/pastas/cereals) with proteins/fats probably being equal (lots of burgers, cheesesteaks, meatball subs, good crap like that.) You are right, I have lowered my carbs not only in absolute terms, but also from a macro standpoint to about 40% of my daily calories. I'm wondering if this still may be too high? My carb sources are mainly oatmeal and brown rice, with the remainder coming from protein based sources (eggs and skim milk).

I would suggest a pre-workout shake with a ratio of about 3:2 carb to protein. Actual amount would be dependent on the time period from your last whole food meal. For example, I have a whole food meal 1.5 hours before training, so I have 30 grams of oat starch with 20 grams of whey protein. However, if your last whole food meal is 3 hours before training, I'd bump it up to 60 carb, 40 protein.

Where do I send a check to? I lift at 2pm, my last meal having been at 12pm, consisting of approximately 4oz of fish or chicken and 1.5 cups of brown rice (I calculate as approx 64% carb, 32% protein, 8% fat - ~500 cals.) I don't consume another meal before I workout, so your suggestion of consuming more pre-w/o is something I will take to heart. What is the timing on the pre-w/o nutrition? I'm guessing 30 minutes prior to training?

Also, don't get discouraged if your lifts stagnate or even go down some. This is normal when you're in caloric deficit. Just keep your mind focused on the overall goal, which is to bring your bodyfat down while maintaining lean muscle. Making this type of transformation will be as much, if not more, of a mental challenge than a physical one.

I keep telling myself that once I get to around 10-12% and then adjust my calories to accomodate a bulk I will quickly see my progress return, while building muscle and carrying less fat than before.

Keep us updated on your progress or if you have any other questions. There are quite a few folks around here who are more than willing to give their feedback and suggestions.

Congratulations to you on making this change in your life!

I will be sure to do this and I can't thank you and the rest of the people here for the help. I made alot of progress in April, and I'm sure with the guidance you've given me May will be even better.

[euclid]

Last Sunday night I had a buffalo chicken sub. Hadn't been able to find one since I left Boston. It was amazing.

If you ever find yourself in Wilmington, DE I owe you buffalo chicken cheese steak. If there's one thing we've got here, it's sub shops.