The errors and inaccuracies in the Carolyn Bryant interview

[Tatyana]

I thought that it is necessary to point out the errors in the Carolyn Bryant interview as it is essential for women to get accurate information to make an educated choice with regards to using or not using anabolic steroids, as well as what steroids to use.

I am going to start with the glaring errors, I may comment on some of the other inaccuracies later.

Starting with, "Winstrol is one of the worst three drugs on the planet for women?"
"Let's see...The medical community could not find any practical use for it so it was never approved. What we have available is a veterinarian compound, not meant for human consumption. This drug is given to animals to increase their appetites. Its basic chemistry suggests it would have to pass through the human liver twice before it will be utilized in our system. Find me a doctor who can explain exactly what this drug does in the human body and I might change my mind.

I used google and google scholar for this, it is not even a proper search really.

I am sure I have more recent abstracts on the medical usage of winstrol at work.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanozolol

Stanozolol, commonly sold under the name Winstrol (oral) and Winstrol Depot (intra-muscular), was developed by Winthrop Laboratories in 1962. It is a synthetic anabolic steroid derived from testosterone, and has been approved by the FDA for human use.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6341772

Stanozolol in postmenopausal osteoporosis: therapeutic efficacy and possible mechanisms of action.

Chesnut CH 3rd, Ivey JL, Gruber HE, Matthews M, Nelp WB, Sisom K, Baylink DJ.

To assess the efficacy of the anabolic steroid stanozolol in the treatment of osteoporosis, a 29-month double-blind study was performed with 23 treated and 23 control postmenopausal osteoporotic women.

Drug efficacy was assessed by serial determinations of total body calcium (TBC--total bone mass) by neutron activation analysis, regional bone mass (RBM) by single-photon absorptiometry, and by spinal roentgenograms.

Total body calcium increased 4.4% from baseline values (P less than 0.01) in the treated group and remained unchanged in the control group; the difference in the change in TBC between the treated and control groups was significant (P less than 0.03). The effect of the drug on TBC persisted throughout the 29-month period. In contrast to TBC, measurements of RBM indicated no significant differences between the treated and placebo groups, suggesting a possible differential response to therapy at various skeletal sites. No new spinal compression fractures were noted in the treated group (compared with three new fractures in the control group). Assessment of serum and urine values indicated a decrease in the level of urinary calcium and an increase in the level of total urinary cyclic AMP in the treated group. These changes were observed even though the level of serum iPTH was significantly decreased during the study. An analysis of changes in bone biopsy specimens revealed no significant differences between the treated and control groups.

Seventy-six percent of the treated subjects developed SGOT elevations or other side effects from the stanozolol therapy; at no time were these effects sufficiently severe to cause termination of medication. The data suggest that long-term use of stanozolol increases the net total bone mass above pretreatment levels.
PMID: 6341772 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3693762

Hereditary angioedema: a decade of management with stanozolol.

Sheffer AL, Fearon DT, Austen KF.
Department of Medicine, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Mass.

Thirty-seven patients with hereditary angioedema, who, without therapy, had attacks of cutaneous angioedema, gastrointestinal colic, and/or upper respiratory symptoms at a frequency and severity sufficient to prompt treatment with an attenuated androgen, have been evaluated for the incidence of side effects and biochemical toxicity during various schedules leading to the minimal effective dose.

Stanozolol was administered in a 2 mg daily dose, initially, and after the symptoms and signs were adequately controlled for 2 months at this dose or at 1 mg per day, the drug was administered every other day at 4 mg.

Patients who responded adequately to this schedule were administered 2 or 1 mg every other day, and then the interval between doses was gradually increased to 1 week, after which the agent was stopped. Eighteen patients experienced adverse reactions to stanozolol while the minimal effective dose was attained. In each instance the side effect subsided with a reduction in dosage.

The most common adverse reactions were biochemical evidence of hepatic dysfunction and, to a lesser extent, hirsutism and menstrual irregularities.

Although 21 of 27 patients in an initial study of the minimal effective dose were maintained with daily therapy in 1980, by 1986 this group and 10 additional patients were distributed so that three patients were receiving daily maintenance, 18 were receiving alternate-day maintenance, and 16 patients were receiving no maintenance therapy [corrected].

Thus, stanozolol appears to be a safe and effective agent for management of hereditary angioedema when patients are continually monitored to define the minimal effective dose or the feasibility of stopping the drug.
PMID: 3693762 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Tatyana]

More on winstrol:

"Experts speculate that it may ignite the nitrogen in the muscles to make them appear harder.

Studies show it lowers your good cholesterol, causes gastrointestinal problems, thins your blood and agitates the skin cells. Anavar is a much better choice. Any person of reasonable intelligence who has studied anatomy and physiology, biochemistry and kinesiology intensely can make educated guesses about such things. My guess is this drug ain't good for ya...male or female."

I am not sure what to say to this, but there isn't anything in your body that ignites.

[Tatyana]

Another statement, "Durabolin is the one I think is the devil and women should never use it, period." Explain why...

"Quite honestly, the person I credit for introducing me to bodybuilding, Robbie Robinson, told me that. I believed him and I never even took the time to research much more about it. I know now because of your article that there are two types. Robbie told me that it stays in the system for a long time, an estimated 18 months...could be more, could be less. After you get the desired muscle mass what else does it do while it is in your system?

You are confusing durabolin (nandrolone phenylpropionate or NPP), with deca-durabolin.

NPP is a very short action drug, and not a potent androgen.

This is in contrast to halotestin, which is more androgenic than testosterone, which you do not recommend for women.

Androgenic rating of halotestin = 1,900
Androgenic rating of NPP = 37
Androgenic rating of Deca = 37
Androgenic rating of testosterone = 100

I found it interesting that you have used Halotestin. How did that work for you?

"I'm not quite sure. It was on the list of drugs of choice for females to combat estrogen dominance issues. I broke the pills up in chips and put them under my tongue. I never take the full dose of anything. It is too toxic to the liver. But so is too much Grey Goose!"

[Angela123]

...clitoral enlargement to the point that it is now a penis. taken from the article.

Tat...what do u think of this? Clitoral enlargement does not mean that it is NOW A PENIS, right? I believe you have spoken on the topic before.

[Tatyana]

...clitoral enlargement to the point that it is now a penis. taken from the article.

Tat...what do u think of this? Clitoral enlargement does not mean that it is NOW A PENIS, right? I believe you have spoken on the topic before.

While the genitals are derived from the same embryonic tissue (more or less), the clitoris cannot become a penis as the urethra does not run through it.

Really, the penis is an enlarged clitoris with a few modifications.

[SallyAnne]

...clitoral enlargement to the point that it is now a penis. taken from the article.

Tat...what do u think of this? Clitoral enlargement does not mean that it is NOW A PENIS, right? I believe you have spoken on the topic before.

I think that the real issue with a statement like this is that some people feel that women should fit a certain stereotype and men another. When these people feel the lines are bended or blurred, it creates a very strong negative reaction. This is why female bodybuilders are so controversial to some, as are the stereotypes that go with them. I've found that people who feel this way about FBB's also have strong negative feelings about homosexuals, transgendered people, etc.

[Tatyana]

Sallyanne, you and I have had a very similar discussion before, however it was related to my interest in inborn errors of sexual differentiation, ambiguous genitalia and the formation of gender schema/stereotypes.

It isn't uncommon for children to be born that it isn't clear as to what biological sex they are.

All too often, gender re-assignment at a young age is incorrect, the brain is a different sex.

This is biological evidence that gender and sex are not fixed, rigid entities, but exist along a continuum.

The comments about clitoral hypertrophy may also be considered offensive to some as this also occurs in women who haven't taken any anabolic steroids.

"The female bodybuilding phenomenon has yet to draw enough interest for medical experts to even bother to explore who they are and what category they belong to. Perhaps it is time they took a closer look. I think the general public struggles to define female bodybuilders and the majority of people reject them because they don't understand them. Once people get past deciphering their gender they wonder why a woman would choose to exhibit such extreme masculine traits

This statement by Carolyn is also fundamentally flawed in many ways.

I do wonder how she defines gender, as it is a social construct.

It is also untrue, a great deal of research has been done with regards to comparing and contrasting biological sex and gender, and some of this has included studies of female athletes, including bodybuilders.

Derenne JL, Beresin EV 2006 Body Image, Media and Eating Disorders American Psychiatry 30:3 257-261

Findlay L, Langdridge D 2007, Embodiment IN Holloway W, Lucey H, and Phoenix A [eds] Social Psychology Matters, Open University Press, Bath pg 173-195

Grogan S, Evans R, Wright S, Hunter G, 2004 Femininity and Muscularity: Accounts of Seven Women Body Builders Journal of Gender Studies 13:1 49-61

Harne AJ, Bixby WR 2005 The Benefits of and Barriers to Strength Training Among College-age Women Journal of Sports Behaviour 28:2 151-166

Henry RN, Anshel MH, Michael T 2006, Effects of Aerobic and Circuit Training on Fitness and Body Image Among Women Journal of Sports Behaviour 29:4
281-303

Johnston L 2007 Flexing Femininity: female body-builders refiguring ‘the body’ Gender, Place and Culture [A Journal of Feminist Geography] 3:3 327-340

Krane V, Choi PYL, Baird SM, Aimar CM, Kauer KJ 2004 Living the Paradox: Female Athletes Negotiate Femininity and Muscularity Sex Roles 50:5/6 315-329

[Skeptic]

More on winstrol:



I am not sure what to say to this, but there isn't anything in your body that ignites.

I grinned when I read that in addition to all the other crap women had to put up with, ignition was now also a risk.

[tight booty]

I don't believe that female bodybuilders want to exhibit masculine traits. What Carolyn said was too generalising towards women.

[Tatyana]

I don't believe that female bodybuilders want to exhibit masculine traits. What Carolyn said was too generalising towards women.

Exactly.

I have known FBBers and figure girls you would never know they had used anything, except for the higher musculature.

I think the issue is that people, men and women, start to like how they feel on cycle a wee bit too much, I do think there is an addictive potential for steroids.

One cycle leads to two, leads to three, and so on.

There are women that are heavily androgenised, yes, and I am sure there must be some that suffer from body perception dysmorphia and other addictive behaviours.

Does that equate them to a psychopath?

No it doesn't, and I don't think that the comparison between FBBers and Jeffrey Dahlmer is a legitimate comparison.

[Carolyn Bryant]

You are confusing durabolin (nandrolone phenylpropionate or NPP), with deca-durabolin.

NPP is a very short action drug, and not a potent androgen.

This is in contrast to halotestin, which is more androgenic than testosterone, which you do not recommend for women.

Androgenic rating of halotestin = 1,900
Androgenic rating of NPP = 37
Androgenic rating of Deca = 37
Androgenic rating of testosterone = 100

Great! Halo is 19 times stronger than any test. If half a tab or a quarter of a tab or chips of a tab will slow down bleeding or stop a girl from bleeding like a slaughtered cow and running to emergency room every month then so be it.

Primobolan is one of the best drugs on the planet! If I had my way it would be the premier HRT.

While you are over here picking apart all the drugs I think are shitty for women, add Primpro, DepoProvera and Norplant to the list. Spell check not included.

[Tatyana]

Great! Halo is 19 times stronger than any test. If half a tab or a quarter of a tab or chips of a tab will slow down bleeding or stop a girl from bleeding like a slaughtered cow and running to emergency room every month then so be it.

Primobolan is one of the best drugs on the planet! If I had my way it would be the premier HRT.

While you are over here picking apart all the drugs I think are shitty for women, add Primpro, DepoProvera and Norplant to the list. Spell check not included.

Would you mind posting up some information or a thread on oestrogen dominance?

[Carolyn Bryant]

Sure. If you promise not to leave out the part that it came from a doctor and not Carolyn. From my experience I don't wish estro dominance on anyone. Here is what Dr. Hotze (google his website in Houston) talks about at his Wellness Center in so many words. Estro dominance has been linked to many of our problems. Estro binds to the thyroid receptor and blocks T3 from being utilized in the body. Estro overworks the adrenals. It can lead to fatique, depression, sleeping disorders, weight gain, irritability, low tolerence to stress and more. Endocrinologists can't just treat patients with blood work. Everyone is different.

The naturalist/holistic medicine doctor has a power point that I can't explain at the moment but it deals with the pregnenolone steal. It is an illustration of chronic stress response. and how hormones don't work if the cortisol is not received properly. Deciphering this chart might be right up your alley.

[Carolyn Bryant]

Exactly.

I have known FBBers and figure girls you would never know they had used anything, except for the higher musculature.

I think the issue is that people, men and women, start to like how they feel on cycle a wee bit too much, I do think there is an addictive potential for steroids.

One cycle leads to two, leads to three, and so on.

There are women that are heavily androgenised, yes, and I am sure there must be some that suffer from body perception dysmorphia and other addictive behaviours.

Does that equate them to a psychopath?

No it doesn't, and I don't think that the comparison between FBBers and Jeffrey Dahlmer is a legitimate comparison.

Hell no. You and perhaps others took that statement totally out of context. One could only marvel at Dahlmer's uniqueness. The general public struggles to understand female bodybuilders and what social category to put them in. That's all. I'm one and I don't understand what I see. I'm willing to listen if someone would take the time to explain it to me.

They have some issues, no doubt. What do they stem from? How do we classify them? What is going on in their psyche? There is a lot more going on than pure athleticism. Were you trying to tell me these are the signs of the times and/or they were born with something I haven't heard of?

Perhaps I read too much of Sigmund Freud's works. I'm currently refreshing my brain on Civilization and Its Discontents.

I saw books dealing with similar issues you referenced in your post in the bookstore. I did not read them because I didn't think they specifically addressed the issue, which is if a woman doesn't want to be a man yet she is taking enough hormones to put herself as close to that line minus the plumbing and you are not gay, then what are we dealing with? (Tell me which abstract talks about that.) If that woman looks in the mirror and doesn't see what I see then we have confussion. I don't know any other way to say that, Tatyana.

[Carolyn Bryant]

"One cycle leads to two, leads to three, and so on. "

Shut yo mouth, gurl.....This is precisely what I'm talking about. And leads to higer doses. Don't let JR hear you say that or we might have yet another argument/discussion going. Steroids became a controlled substance much in part due to their level of addiction and the havoc they might wreak on the body with abuse.

Bodybuilding is addicting. But when done right in the end you build a healthy, superhuman physique on the inside and out. (Yes, even with sensible drug supplementation.) So that when you get older you have a wall of protection whereas you become less susceptable to diseases and aging.

If you have a dormant health issue, some drugs will certainly make it come out of hiding.